How to Get Hired by Leveraging Your Relationships

Professional relationships can propel your career. Mo Bunnell , author of Give to Grow: Invest in Relationships to Build Your Business and Career , discussed the powerful impact of leveraging professional relationships to boost your career on the latest episode of Get Hired with Andrew Seaman . Mo shared his journey from an actuary to a business development expert with LinkedIn News Editor Andrew Seaman , offering practical advice on building meaningful connections that benefit everyone involved.

Mo debunks the common belief that “It’s not what you know, but who you know,” by emphasizing that success comes from mastering both. His concept of “strategic giving” encourages offering value to others — through small acts or significant contributions —without expecting immediate returns.

A transcript of the conversation is below. You can find links to the episode on various podcast platforms by clicking here .

TRANSCRIPT: How to Get Hired by Leveraging Your Relationships

Voice: LinkedIn News.

Andrew Seaman: When it comes to getting a job who you know is often as important as what you know. But even if you know all the right people, you might still be unsure about how to leverage those connections to help you land your next role. So what's the best way to lean on your network during your job hunt? Stick around to find out.

From LinkedIn News, this is Get Hired, a podcast for the ups and downs and the ever-changing landscape of our professional lives. I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's Editor-at-Large for Jobs and Career Development, bringing new conversations with experts who, like me, want to see you succeed at work, at home, and everywhere in between. My guest today, Mo Bunnell is an expert in building and leveraging professional relationships. Mo is the founder and CEO of Bunnell Idea Group, a business development consulting firm. He's also the author of several books, including his latest, Give to Grow:? Invest in Relationships to Build Your Business and Your Career.

Mo and I sat down to talk about his new book, the Concept of Strategic Giving and The Lies We Tell Ourselves That Hold Us Back From Meeting Our Career Goals. Here's Mo.

Mo Bunnell: I started my career as an actuary, and becoming an actuary is so hard. It takes six, eight, 10 years to pass all these huge exams with a pass rate of a third. Two-thirds of the people are failing. And the very month I pass those exams, I transitioned to a role where I had to lead big client relationships at a consulting firm I was at. And instantaneously, over a weekend, over two days, I tried to skip forward 20 years of experience. I went from this inch wide and a mile deep actuarial, put the green visor on, and do massive mathematical calculations in a dark room, I went from that to a mile wide and an inch deep where I had to lead these big client relationships. And I think because I was used to taking exams every six months, I was used to studying things, so on my very first day in this new role, I asked my boss for the manual, how do you create great relationships that are mutually beneficial, everybody wins, but the other side happens to say yes to you a lot to hire you for more things.

And he said, "There's no manual. Treat the client right." And he left my office. I had a massive near panic attack, like what did I do? I left this sure thing role to do this new thing and I've got to figure this out. And that started a journey, a science, evidence-based journey of trying to figure out how are deep relationships formed? How do you create mutually beneficial relationships where everybody wins at every turn? And how can you stay on top of doing that while you're really busy delivering on whatever other promises are already there?

Andrew: So your new book is Give to Grow, and it gets into this, about building these relationships that are mutually beneficial. Can you tell me the foundation of Give to Grow?

Mo: I think there's a commonly used phrase that I passionately disagree with, "It's not what you know, but who you know," and it is just completely wrong. It's, "What you know and who you know." But what a lot of people do is over index to just skills. The who you know part is massively important and most organizations don't teach it. And that's another big reason why I wrote Give to Grow, is all these people are out there where just doing the work they do will make them better at doing the work, the what you know part. But people need a system, they need science, they need something they can follow on the who you know part. How do you focus on the right relationships? How do you deepen those? And how do you stay in touch so people don't forget about you?

Andrew: Over your career, obviously, like you said, you've shifted. You've gotten to the side of business development that is about building those relationships. So what is that dynamic of giving something to actually get something?

Mo: Oh, brilliant. Well, what's neat about this, Andrew, is we don't have to guess. We can look at the science. So Adam Grant is my favorite researcher around this type of thing and in a litany of a couple studies, he looked into givers, takers, and matchers. The key definition for a giver is there's no expectation of anything in return. Takers are the opposite. They take, they want to take at every chance, get other people to do their bidding. And matchers are somewhere in the middle where almost in each interaction they're looking for an equal trade. He thought and his team thought that each of these three groups would clearly be one, two, and three in order of success. But that's not what happened. What happened was givers were among the most successful in the world and also among the least successful in the world. They were split with matchers second, takers third.

Then in follow-up studies, you had to figure out, well, what's the difference? The difference is what we like to call now, we're layering on our own expertise here, is strategic givers, people that knew what to say no to, knew what to say yes to when they gave, and sized the size of their give to what they would expect the return for them to be, even if there was no strings attached. So if somebody cold calls you from college and says, "I'd love to learn about your career at LinkedIn. Let's go golfing for four hours," well, that's a lot to give. Maybe you can say, "Can't do that, but I could give you 15 minutes."

But if your boss's boss asks for something and they ask for four hours, you might say, "Let me give you 20. I really want to please you on this project." So as I apply that to the job search, I think where a lot of people make a mistake real practically speaking is they lean on their relations to say, "I need a job. Can you help me?" Well, how about we flip that and we say, "How can I help you? And so is there a half day workshop I can do? Can I take something off your plate?" Is there a way to do that while we're doing the job search in a way that they would be excited about introducing us to others?

Andrew: Yeah. Maybe people they'll get tripped up on this where a lot of times they hear networking or relationship building should not be transactional. Are you saying that it should be or that it's more nuanced than that?

Mo: That's a great question. It's more nuanced. There's a chapter in Give to Grow that I think is particularly relevant here. And what I'm trying to give the audience is an idea they can use forever, but also a real practical way to put it in place today. So the idea we can use forever around strategic giving is, to the extent we can, we want to give people the experience of working with us in a way they want to make more introductions for us, or potentially even for a potential organization that we're a candidate for. Here's what I mean by that. It's one thing to hear about how great a bottle of wine is. We can look at the vintage, the vineyard, we can have a sommelier tell us how great it is, but if that sommelier gives us a taste of that wine, even just a small taste, we love it. Well, if I'm a candidate, I want to apply strategic giving in a way where I can give people the experience of working with me.

I've got a very high level C level person that's been a client of ours, as an example, and he's now going to be looking for a job through some really random things that have nothing to do with what a great job he's done. And he asked, "Could you introduce me to some people?" Well, I happen to know that he's got a really powerful way he integrates marketing with business development at the organization he's at that's truly novel and gets results. So what I can do is go to my network and say, "CEOs and CHROs, do you want to meet this person? By the way, he's happy to share with you how he's integrated marketing and business development that, CEO, I think could help you drive a lot of growth." Well, it's a whole different thing for me to go to her, the CEO, and say, "Do you want to meet him because he's looking for a job?" "Maybe."

But if I go to her and say, "He's willing to invest in your success and here's how I think it might match because I know both of you," well, that got a reply right away. So I think this idea of strategic giving is, if folks can think about what are the unique skills they've got, the what you know part, and apply that to the who you know by offering a little from a half hour to a half day workshop, is that, what can you offer people that will give them the experience of you, to give them a taste of the wine, you're a fine wine candidate, give them a taste, and that is going to unlock so many more introductions and so many more deep meaningful introductions than just leaning on friends saying, "Can you introduce me to so-and-so?"

Andrew: Yeah. And also there is that idea, like I mentioned, where networking, relationship building shouldn't be transactional, but if you go to a networking event, if you go to something that is professionally centered, yes, you might become friends with some people over time or may hit it off with someone, but everyone knows why they're there. So with this idea of strategic giving, I do appreciate that, because it is that idea of like, "Hey, listen, let's figure out how to get ahead together."

Mo: That exact phrase, "Let's figure out how we can get ahead together," that's actually something you could literally say to someone and it just feels great. It feels great. So tying back to that, you just mentioned networking event, and I want to be hyper practical on this idea of strategic giving. Networking events are really important. A study out of, I think it was, the State University of New York found that when people even go to networking events, they hesitate, they don't like it, and there was a high correlation to people wanting to take a shower afterwards because they felt so icky about it. But different people when they approached a networking event focused on helping people as opposed to taking actually really enjoyed it and came out of events with lots of to-dos and all kinds of things. And as we begin with generosity, if we begin with strategic giving, then people are likely to come back around us after we've helped them and want to do four or five things for us. We don't even have to ask and it feels great.

Andrew: We'll be right back with Mo Bunnell.?

Andrew: And we're back with Mo Bunnell, author of Give to Grow. I want to jump a little bit ahead in your book, I don't want to give the whole thing away, but one of the things that you do is you go through very thoroughly about the lies people tell themselves. Because I think, especially with job seekers and when it comes to building relationships and working with other people, we often are our biggest obstacle because we have all these ingrained beliefs that may not be true. So for job seekers out there, the lies that we tell ourselves, what do you think are really the ones that are super applicable to job seekers?

Mo: Well, why don't I just go through all five quickly and then we'll drop into one.

Andrew: Yeah, go for it.

Mo: But this was based on a bunch of proprietary research, not the peer-reviewed stuff in universities, but us asking people in workshops what held them back when they were thinking about reaching out to somebody. And we didn't know if there would be like three roadblocks, 23. Turns out there's five. The first one is, I can't do it. Well, all the research shows every complex skill is both learned and earned. Anybody can learn anything or get at least better at it. So we know we can topple that lie over. Once we get through that, I don't know what to do. We can talk about the solutions for any of these. If we get through that, I might do it wrong. That's the perfectionism mindset. I think that hits job seekers a lot.

If we get through that, the fourth lie is I'm too busy. That one can really get in people's way. "Well, how do I search for a new job? I don't like where I'm at, but I'm working 90 hours a week." Well, there's some specific ways to get through that. And the last one, I'm going to look bad. That's fear of rejection that's underneath that, and that can really get in people's way of. I don't want to follow up because I'm afraid I'll say it the wrong way, or I'll look bad because I just followed up last week, or whatever.

Andrew: The one that actually stands out to me, and I've talked about this a lot, is, I might look bad. So I guess for job seekers and people in that situation, how do you get over that fear of, I may look bad?

Mo: Well, let me drop into the exact verbatims we heard. These were the top ones that all hung underneath the idea of looking bad. I don't want to be a pest or nag. I'm worried they might not even remember me. I'm not even sure they need me. I'm intimidated by them. What help would talking to me be? People can hear these in their heads. The solution for this one is action. This lie of fear of rejection, it does not like action. It will go away and find somebody else if you just start acting. So the mantra we have in the book that a lot of people have written and said, "Gosh, I think of that every day," is, think 10X, not 1X. And here's what we mean by that. Think 10X is, "I'm going to add value in Paula's life 10 times over the next six months. I'm going to find articles. I'm going to learn her priorities. I'm going to offer helpful give to gets, and my hope is that one of these will work." That's 10X thinking.???????

One-X thinking is what we want to avoid. That is, "This next outreach to Paula has to go perfectly. I need her to respond." You can hear that in your head. If we start putting that much pressure on the next outreach, we'll hesitate. We'll never hit send. We won't make the offer. So think 10X, not 1X just is the way to blast through this, "I'm afraid I'm going to look bad," because you just start acting and that acting creates more momentum, you start to feel more confident, and you realize a person doesn't have to every email. You're just looking to add value over time and you're going to earn the right to get that response.

Andrew: I think, some job seekers, they do maybe cross into being too aggressive or maybe too salesy. So how do you know when you're approaching that line to say, "Oh, maybe I should lay off a little bit"?

Mo: Well, this is a real practical tip that just works like a charm. There's a lot of research that showed weak ties. The people that you haven't kept in touch with for a while are actually the best source of getting a new job. So yeah, we want to go to our close circle of friends, but most people find jobs through a click or two out from that, the weak ties. Well, that first outreach, let's say it doesn't get a response. I think you've got license to follow up one more time in that email thread. And it's the, "Hey, hope this didn't go to spam, but wonder if we can connect." I think people get really fearful when in the same thread they were going to follow up three, four, or five times, because that does feel naggy. So one of the moves people can make is, if a thread doesn't work, drop it. Start a new one.

Maybe connect with them through Facebook. Maybe have a friend mention your name. Maybe give them a call. Maybe send them a book you think they'd like. Choose a different channel that you actually don't even mention that, can we get together and have coffee, or whatever the request was in the first one. Just let that sit and go over and keep trying to be strategically helpful. If we've got their best interest in mind and it's clear, sometimes the best response to get back on the thing you asked for is actually to let it sit for a while and go be helpful in a completely different way. And then the person replies back, "Oh my gosh, I've been meaning to reach back out. Yeah, let's get together for coffee. By the way, thanks for the book you sent." I think a lot of times people just keep pounding on the same door in the same way and that's where you can become a nag. So another way to do it is go through a different door.

Andrew: And I want to close on that first lie about, I can't do this, because job searching, as you said, it's tough. And a lot of times people, they may give, they may strategize and things like that, and it still may feel very defeatist, or they're putting a lot out into the world, but they don't feel like they're really getting anything or a little back. What is your message for those people? Because I'm totally on board with the idea that lead with generosity, lead with, how can I help? Because I think, especially in a job search that helps form community, that makes you feel less alone. But sometimes people just say, "You know what? This sucks." So for them, what is your advice on keeping going or anyone who finds themselves in that spiral of this isn't going my way.

Mo: The first idea is to have a process. So every week, pick three things you'll do in the next week that are proactive, nobody else is asking you to do it, but there are things your year from now self would be glad that you did. And if you just do three things a week that are proactive and deeply meaningful, you'll progress your job search if you're doing three proactive, high impact things a week. That's idea one. Idea two is somehow create a mechanism of reward. A real simple example is, if you have 10 people that you want to reach out to this week, put 10 paperclips, something physical I found really works, you put 10 paperclips into a bowl and you got an empty bowl right next to it. Each time you reach out, you move a paperclip over. A spreadsheet can work too. A Post-It Note with a tally works too. But I found a physical manifestation of the action creates more of the action. That's a way to do it.

The third example I'll give, and this is a black belt pro ninja tip, is find an accountability partner. Find somebody that'll help you through this journey. It could be somebody that's a job seeker too, it might not be, but somebody that you're not afraid of that will get in your grill. They won't let you off the hook. And here's what you do. You tell them your deepest, darkest fear and you give them the exact words to use and you say, "Friday at 5: 00, I've got to text you, and if I didn't do my three things this week or reach out to the 10 people, whatever, I want you to use the words on me." And I know that sounded really bad, but there's a huge body of work. Roy Baumeister is the the marque scientist around this, bad is stronger than good in people's minds, so our desire to avoid a bad feeling is actually more motivational than achieving a good feeling.

So if you can actually line up this person that will say a mean thing to you, or really the truth you're thinking anyway, you'll actually work really hard to avoid that feeling and it'll keep you going. So anyway, those are three little ideas, but it's consistency and persistency that's going to win the day in a job search, so finding mechanisms to make sure that happens is maybe the most important thing we can do.

Andrew: Great. Thank you so much, Mo.

Mo: Andrew, this was awesome.

Andrew: That was Mo Bunnell, author of Give To Grow:? Invest in Relationships to Build Your Business and Career. If you're leaving today's conversation with a new learning to apply to your job search or career, I'd like to invite you to write about it in a review on Apple Podcasts. Our team really enjoys reading what you learned from our shows. Plus, it helps other people discover our community. Speaking of community, remember that we're always here, backing you up and cheering you on. Connect with me, Andrew Seaman, and the Get Hired community on LinkedIn to continue the conversation. In fact, subscribe to my weekly newsletter that's called, you guessed it, Get Hired, to get even more information delivered to you every week. You can find those links in the show notes.????????????????????????????????

And, of course, don't forget to click the follow or subscribe button to get our podcast delivered to you every Wednesday, because we'll be continuing these conversations on the next episode right here, wherever you like to listen. Get Hired is a production of LinkedIn News. The show is produced by Grace Rubin and Emily Reeves. Assaf Gidron engineered our show. Tim Boland mixed our show. Dave Pond is head of news production. Enrique Montalvo is our executive producer. Courtney Coupe is the head of original programming for LinkedIn. Dan Roth is the editor-in-chief of LinkedIn. And I'm Andrew Seaman. Until next time, stay well and best of luck.