How Burnout Can Destroy Everything: Dr.Renee Interview

How BURNOUT can destroy everything: Dr. Renee Interview

Do you feel fresh and revitalized, rather than burnt out? We feel like we're running a hundred miles an hour, like a hamster on a treadmill in terms of Monday, going to Sunday, and then it feels like where has the week gone?

Let's first define what is burnout. There are many of us who have heard the term, and some who have actually experienced it, but the definition of burnout is a reaction to excessive and prolonged stress. You could categorize it as work-related stress, or you might not.

Chronic exhaustion is a red flag, you can feel oh so tired. You feel less engaged. You feel less effective, especially in the world of work and in jobs. This has a knock-on effect when it comes to your personal life because your personal life and your professional life are so interconnected.

You just almost feel exhausted before actually entering into the office or turning on your laptop.

You can bring that into your relationship. It's often caused by aspects like where there's an overworking scenario, where you're working extremely long hours, or you're going at a hundred miles per hour. In this scenario, you are not resting and you're not allowing those periods of time where you can be reenergized, so it can leave us feeling very spent.?

What are the signs of burnout as you would see them Dr. Renee?

Dr Renee. I'm probably going to approach this from a different perspective because we know the typical symptoms and signs. People can become tired, lethargic even appear exhausted at times experiencing many different levels of mood swings.

Burnout has different phases, including the basic one in which we become comedic about the fact that we're feeling burnt out and say things like, "I'm working so many hours, I'm making the money, I'm doing this, I'm doing that."

We romanticize burnout initially, but eventually it really sets in. It is normal to feel as though we are unable to break free from certain phases in our lives. We get into the chronic stress phase as well as the habitual phase, where we may even start falling back into these cycles.

This is what I do with families too, when we look at children and how they exhibit stress, adults and how they exhibit emotions. We experience relational fatigue, exhaustion, and burnout in different ways. When one doesn't seem to be oneself, that is often a key characteristic.

This is important. Again, not everyone's going to act out in sleepiness, tiredness, and lethargy. Some people may exhibit, mood swings to the higher selves. So, what I call the heavy emotions, this could be irritation and frustration. This can be very common for men and for boys, we can see that on that side, we can also see escalated anger.

At times, we can see a lot of different things. People having a shorter fuse, as we've noticed from the pandemic. I think we're all very much, experiencing a level of emotional exhaustion and somewhat burnout as well as fatigue. To that degree where we're seeing a lot of short fuses with people just getting really irritated and frustrated at things that they normally wouldn't, or they are just losing their peace with things a little bit more quickly.

I would say there is a lot and one of the important things is noticing again, one is different than usual. Are we expressing ourselves verbally different, or one might be not expressing? They might be going within themselves when they're typically they are a very talkative person. This is a key sign for me. My support team knows to kick in, if I display such changes.

If they say, oh, I haven't heard from Dr Renee in a while. She's been absent, she doesn't talk as much, or seems quieter. This can be a big sign. On top of that also when in relationships, one could try to engage in conflict with their loved ones, because they're trying to externalize the heaviness of the feeling they have inside.

They don't quite know how to process it, sit with it, be patient with it, which makes them anxious and uneasy. There might even be an escalation of conflict arguments, those kinds of things that aren't purposeful. It is a way to reduce that stress that's happening on the inside of oneself by pushing it outside and create a different kind of conflict.

Johnny Nash: Fascinating. I liked the way you broke it down and from my research of it as well, there are five stages of burnout.

The honeymoon phase. Which is like the honeymoon phase in a marriage, right??

Dr. Renee: Where people go into a venture, or a task, or a business you've got like boundless amounts of energy and optimism. Thereafter you start building some stresses, which is the beginning. Next comes the onset of the stress phase, which ultimately means the honeymoon phase starts to wane.

When you begin to experience more in-depth levels of stress, I like to touch upon your point of the chronic stress phase. Is it the case then that people ignore those first two stages? In that, they don't reach out to their support mechanisms or outlets, and they've allowed the whole problem to start to get out of control, where he's going to a more from an acute to a chronic phase?

Johnny Nash: Could you outline that more in details Dr.Renee??

Dr Renee: Many of us, myself included, grew up hyper-masculine in the career world, working in a male-dominated field. I developed this very assertive, hyper-masculine sort of personality, as well as the way I approached a lot of things, including my own health and wellbeing, in this very intense, very competitive environment. Thankfully, those days are long gone, though I still reflect on them.

I would often tell people I've got this, I've got this because, as we know from Dr. Carol Dweck's wonderful research, it's been around for a long time. My goodness, It must be, almost 50 years now. Essentially, she demonstrated to us that some people see it as a limitation, if they cannot do everything themselves, or if they cannot solve the problem themselves.

Any time I must seek outside assistance, it indicates that I am not fully capable of handling this myself.

As again, when chronic stress shows up, they are like, oh yeah, I got this. I'm going to work out, exercise is great. Exercise alone though will not change an emotional or mental pattern, right? It will just make you feel better in your body over time, but it needs additional cognitive and support to help you change the way you approach things.

Stress affects the way you think about things. Consequently, many people feel they have failed. Feeling limited is the result. They feel helpless if they can't figure it out on their own. Initially, they tend to notice them, but they believe they can handle them themselves.

The problem is that people who are cognizant, aware and do seek help often alas have toxic support systems around them. Their support systems believe, oh, they'll cheer you on. Don't worry, you've got this, you're tough, you're strong as being examples. It is very toxic because it is not aligned with one's inherent motion, which is seeking help.

It is often the third group of people who move around that toxic happiness and those types of emotions, while still seeking support that do the best. It is difficult since we all want to do it by ourselves. There are toxic members around us, very close to us at times, who tend to create that barrier. We all want to figure it out.

To get the help, we're really looking for, we need to be able to get past several layers of support. I'm not surprised that so many people fall into that chronic stress phase.

Johnny Nash: It's sometimes hard. Having some toxicity is very personal in the sense that it could be a parent, or very close family members. I am half Iranian, half British. If there is toxicity within the family that contributes to burnout, you may have to make some hard decisions. As a rule, I tell people that you want to surround yourself with people who will lift you up, not bring you down.

Johnny Nash: How would someone know that they're in a chronic stress base? Is it something they do daily?

Dr.Renee: Great question. Between the habitual and chronic phases, there is some grey area, so it can get a little muddy. I would say that the chronic phase is when we really begin to manifest physical reactions more frequently. Other people notice them sometimes, but we just don't feel well, and it could have more to do with our body.

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Perhaps it has more to do with the mind. It could be a combination of factors. Commenting on things, we are even feeling, really at the point where we are beginning to feel helpless, hopeless, starting to notice that there are things that, we must change, and whether we believe we can do that is another matter entirely.

When the habitual phase kicks in, this is when we lose our ability to self-regulate, this is where we fall into those neuro-biological feedback loops that we discuss a lot here in clubhouse doing the interview, where we don't really know what we're doing. Be aware of that point, when we get sucked into something and we just spiral out of control.

Our negative vernacular is like a hamster on a wheel, and we don't even realize how often we use it. I might hear my clients say, "Oh, my God, I'm so tired today.". I remember Oprah saying, "I'm looking for my second wind.".

My second wind will arrive today, and I can't wait. This will be a totally different experience. Furthermore, I am optimistic that this will shift my energy in a positive direction. Rather than feeling exhausted, I look forward to that. In other words, we don't realize when we get into the habitual loop that we are talking very toxic to ourselves.

People also romanticize burnout, as if it is something we are all going through. We're not supposed to be here to burn out. We're here to live the best possible lives that we can and keep our bodies, our minds, our hearts, our spirits healthy.

It's at that point, Johnny, when we're accepting of these things as if they're part of our normal everyday lives that we're starting to move into the habitual stage from the chronic stress phase and start to lose our ability to self-regulate. In addition to that, we must learn how we come to know these different parts of ourselves so that we can recognize when those patterns occur.

Johnny Nash: What you said, all the points that you just elaborated there. We're now in the burnout phase when we're in that chronic stress phase. If we had a traffic light system, we'd be at amber and now we're moving to red, which is the chronic stress phase.

Can we talk a bit more now that we have passed the chronic stress phase? We're in the red zone of burnout and how that would feel and the ramifications.?

Dr Renee: It'll feel different for everyone. Again, we know within the first 48 hours of us being born, our temperament is solid, and it doesn't mean that we don't change behaviourally and learn how to adjust ourselves.

Although we have had experiences throughout our lives, we know genetically within ourselves that we are shaped by those experiences and our temperament is rooted. Therefore, if I have a tendency toward nervousness, I can learn to work through how nervousness feels and what nervousness is my awareness of nervousness.

As for me, I have a tendency toward nervousness. Therefore, if I have nervousness, I can learn to work through how nervousness feels and what nervousness is, but biochemically, I will still have it. Oh my gosh, I'm overwhelmed.

Even though our awareness is wired for certain things, which is so important, it is still a wonderful thing. Understanding the past is essential to emotional awareness. When we lose our ability to feel that shift in our bodies anymore, it's almost like I'm showing my age up here since the first car I learned to drive was a stick shift.

You grind those gears at first until you learn the rhythm. Just to be able to drive like that was smooth. It's what emotions want. Burnout, however, makes the process a bit more chaotic, not as smooth.

Consequently, we move from one frequency to the next without even realizing it. This means our bodies send fewer signals than when we are in one state. When we move into that unhealthy state, we send fewer signals. Our feeling of fatigue, anger, and irritability increases, and we lose our emotions more quickly into that phase, but it all has to do with our ability to self-regulate.

It is important to know the dimensions of oneself and to know that there are pieces of me that I do not know. I must be open to feedback on those pieces. To understand me and others better, I need to be open to communicating with people.

Burnout is when we lose that sense of being able to recognize. As our self needs and desires, we create an altar call that says, "Oh, this is the way it is.". It's just the way it is. I should run amuck, be exhausted, tired, and moody, and hurry up.

Often, I hear parents urging their children to hurry up because I work in so many schools. The bell is going to ring. Get your backpacks ready. The day is coming to an end. Hurry, get to your bus, hurry. When we are burnt out, we miss these things because they are already pre-programmed in us, and we just go with the cycle and the loop.

Johnny Nash: Entrepreneurs or founders can have this sort of superman complex, where they feel like, "I'll, I'll get through, I can do it.

I'm a tough cookie”. It's just a momentary span. It's just a period that I'm going through, which is dangerous. Regarding tell-tale signs, from a work perspective, you are thinking, have I gotten burnt out? There are five. One is that you no longer get excited about your work.

There's no way for you, you're just not enthusiastic about what you're doing. Each time you try, it's just not working and that’s the first problem. Once you give up trying, the second problem arises. Your laptop may be in front of you, as you stare at it.?

You find that maybe two, three, or four hours have passed. You haven't put much effort into any of the tasks you have or the deadlines you have. Another classic sign is that you aren't doing your best. The third factor that contributes to burnout at work is that your performance is affected.

So, as you might expect, the more disinterested you are daily, the more it builds up and the more it builds up. People who are burnt out simply don't care enough to do their jobs well, which leads to poor performance.?

You just got this fatigue and he told you why? Why do I get this fatigue all the time? He tried to check out, maybe go to the doctors, do blood tests, but nothing was wrong. She's a great fan. He's still tired, though. You still got this overall sense of exhaustion.

In addition to feeling physically drained, it is common to feel emotionally drained as well. Finally, you are dealing with physical ailments. Those symptoms outlined earlier might include sleepless nights, headaches, or heart palpitations.

After the tell-tale signs of this burnout phase, how does this impact all our working relationships and then impact maybe our love life in terms of our personal relationships??

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Dr Renee. I have studied human behaviour performance, particularly the relationship between parents and children but also assisting families with how they miss these pitfalls, where they miss these obvious signs that are there. Because when we look back at it at the end of the day, we realize, yes, I did notice that she wasn't quite herself.

Furthermore, I noticed she wasn't being as calm and patient as she normally is, or she wasn't paying her bills, there are many people who, when they experience burnout, it isn't because they do not care. We should be very sensitive to the fact that individuals care greatly about that one thing.

Often, they just can't find a solution. They don't know what to do, or they move from that chronic phase to that habitual phase. They lose that capability again. Feel that enormous thing shifting for them. Thus, they can find that they aren't following through on their tasks.

These types of things start to greatly impact them when they are showing up late to things. When we look at the first one, what you said about work relationships is important. Again, we take for granted the fact that we have jobs and people have become very self-regulatory in their fields.

It's something they know how to do. Many people know how to cover up their mental, emotional, and physical pain even when they're experiencing it. I experienced this myself when I went through COVID. On the clubhouse app, I remember someone telling me, I couldn't even tell you were sick. It made me feel awful. My voice wasn't heard at all.

To myself, it didn't even sound normal, but when I listened to the replay, it did. It improves my voice quality in a great way, but also, I think people get used to your voice in a certain way that they miss those little subtle cues. We have to become more aware of our co-workers in our work environments.

The chief emotions officer within me will say that this is very important to me, that we learn to check in with each other every morning, even if we're busy ourselves. My besties and I do this every morning. How are you? What's going on with your day? We check in every single day really quickly instead of trying to get on a phone and have a long conversation.

When we have time we'll respond, which keeps that connection. I think in the office if we're still in traditional offices, we can do so.

Companies, institutions, and educational institutions are instituting, social and emotional mechanisms and competencies for their employees. They have people like chief emotion officers, and other individuals that assist and train them with these skills.

It's a big deal at work that I think we notice how people interact with one another. If we notice that we're getting more frustrated with people who aren't completing their projects. Another thing to consider is executive function. Stress negatively affects executive function.

We have noticed that within the working memory, there is a place called the central executive which gets bogged down greatly when anxiety is high, breathing is very negative, and the way that there's more releasing of breath than breathing in, right? While we don't even realize that we are carrying around these high levels of stress, it impacts our ability to remember and encode information.

In addition, it affects our ability to retrieve it. As a result, we probably forget about the little things, causing them to fall through the cracks. Things like that can have a big impact.?

Johnny Nash: Relationships are so important because when you are burnt out or even just about to reach that red zone of burnout, I don't know about you.

The problem is that people become very withdrawn, or they become very snappy, very short, and because perhaps they're suffering from insomnia, lack of sleep because they've got a sense of restlessness.

Therefore, from a work relationship perspective, it's all about the team, there's no “I” in team, and we're in the era of collaborations more than ever before. Unless the other person, or the team members, or your boss knows what's going on.?It will seem as if you are disengaged, disinterested, obstructive, rude, causing problems and issues.

As a result, you're going to experience a vicious cycle in terms of the breakdown of relationships at work, which is going to increase the pressure on you as an individual and contribute to the burnout that you're suffering.

Dr Renee. Most of us take it for granted that we know one another, but do we really, do we really, and how much does each institution allow for the capacity to know each other? In my experience, higher education P12 teachers tend to be very social, and they often hang out together outside of school.

We need more training about burnout within the workplace. In the onboarding process, I think we should talk about emotional well-being, mental health and how we can help one another. I think it's important to do fun social things together at work, so we can get to know each other rather than always being serious.

We can do these types of check-ins with our team during these moments of check-ins. We often have a team manager. We ask how everyone is doing as well and how do we feel about being open? Now that I work for her or him, they always ask us, how are we all feeling? Is this too much for us to handle?

We still need to schedule one more meeting, but do you think it will be too much? It's just online instead of coming in. She's very open, both emotionally and intellectually. In her emotionality, we have grown to feel free and share and express our own feelings. Therefore, I think there must be great modelling from those in the workplace.

I'm not just referring to race, ethnicity, and culture, but culture is everything that we were taught to believe in a sense of who we are. For example, urban culture could be gender culture.

Sexual orientation, for example, could be a factor here. Likewise, all these different cultural dimensions of self-influence our ability to feel comfortable, even when approaching something like this. It's taboo to some. It's just not right for me to share this information with someone.

It is for a therapist to talk about, or for their closest friends to talk about. As such, there are still walls to break down in this work of mental and emotional wellbeing in the workplace. We must allow people the freedom to feel safe in that environment. Thus, we must clearly identify these types of things as well.

It's so important to have conversations, but I also think good modelling, great conversations, peer support, and checking in are important. Additionally, we could create a list of typical locations for our employees. Former or current employees of this profession have reported higher levels of stress.

They might be little, like you said, the little row, magenta-coloured areas that we might start to check in, or the yellow-coloured areas that we might start to check in teaching our employees, how to check in with our bodies, how to take those brain breaks from time to time throughout the day.

I think all those things can be beneficial and we're already doing them, as well as education. The corporate world has been doing this for a long time, but I think it is finally catching up with us.