How to build (and protect) a trust-based culture

Building a trust-based culture is hard work, and based on comment highlights below from last Friday's CMO Coffee Talk sessions it's also difficult to sustain and protect as companies go through rapid growth and difficult market conditions.

It's clear however that a foundation is trust is critical to team success. Thank you to Christine G.D. Schaefer who led a discussion on what makes for a trust-based culture, what can kill it, and how to protect and build on it.

If you are in the CMO Coffee Talk community , don't miss the Four Cs Trust Matrix in the #swipe-file in Slack.

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One company I was with for 8 years, I had 11 managers during the tenure. Hard to get/gain trust when I got a new manager on average every 8-12 months.

Follow up question to this, when you realize you don’t trust your manager, how long do you stick around? Or is the sense of broken trust enough to move on? Asking when you believe in the company and the product

There’s “I trust my manager to do certain things and behave in certain ways,” which is different from “I trust my manager to not screw me over”

No trust, no job. I’m out!

(Not at all affiliated with the company but) FYI, PwC has built a part of their business, the Trust Leadership Institute, to drive the theme further with orgs.

I also wonder how many of us has an ability to sniff out trust earlier in our career. Now my CEO-dar antenna is high. Early on many don’t have those skills.

Building a relationship is so important I/of being viewed as just a transaction to your boss

At my last company I had 3 leaders in less than three years. The one who hired me sadly left within a year. The second was a nightmare whom none of us trusted. We outlived him. The third came in and cleaned out the team and hired her people. Trust didn’t even enter into it.

I have been able to tell pretty quickly when trust is possible with a manager based on how transparent they are and when they show vulnerability...which sets the tone for an open and honest relationship.

I think we only tend to tolerate distrust when it’s a survival threat (e.g., putting food on the table, physical harm, etc)

As I reflect, I realized that for each boss it’s been either 100% trust them or 0%. No somewhat trusting them.

70% of the time I’ve Understood them. 20% I’ve trusted.

Trust gets trickier with cross-border teams. It becomes a real challenge

Trust is key.? I always report to the CEO. Therefore if the trust isn’t there — I have no choice, I need to move on within the year.? Fiduciary Responsibility is key.? As I am often his voice “to the street” + BOD.

I finished this book over the summer - going to re-read it again! Good frameworks for building trust - https://a.co/d/jgXfLJG

Love the “competence” element of this. It’s gotta be there, or trust does not matter.

Curious, how did you approach building trust with the existing members of the team when you joined?

This is why one of my core values is I do what I say I'm going to do. It's so critical to building trust.

Listening

great point about taking a chance on someone.? Sometimes ppl don’t have the paper requirements, but your gut tells you something is special about them.

Speed of Trust

It changes everything

Connecting and building a relationship on a personal level is a huge part of building trust

Isolation, especially with WFH, can be a big issue. People are present, but its hard to build trust completely when fully remote.? Pulling ppl from the fringes? of the group and into the core group is really important (and feels great)

Great point, the old guard v. new guard is real. I’ve been on both sides of it.

If it’s hard for us to trust co-workers when we interact digitally. It’s even harder for customers to trust us. We’ve got a tough job being marketers being in the business of earning and building trust.

Body language, eye contact, with the new associates is key

You hire people for aptitude and fire them for attitude. I give a lot of weight to hiring people for attitude first and foremost and aptitude second. You can always learn new things, especially if you are passionate and have the right attitude.

AMEN to your comments. I LOVE working from home, and will likely never not be remote. But, the one company where it was lightening in a bottle was a crew of us “growing up” and experiencing life/traveling together for many years. That was 10 years ago, and many of us are hiring/working with each other again.

My number one reason to accept + stay in a role has always the connection to my manager. I've been very lucky to have some of the best to learn from. Offering clear, trustworthy, transparent communication - in good times + more importantly, bad times.

In all my weekly team meetings, I start with personal good news and professional success of the week. That sharing has made a big difference in building trust and comraderie on the team, especially with WFH

What do hard conversations sound like on your team?

I typically have everyone on the team interview new hires (up to a certain size, it does not scale past a point). But I’m also clear that I’m gathering feedback, not giving everyone veto power.

I do a what have I learned this week - can be personal or professional -- which often has success embedded in some way

Love that. “I will listen” works, and then genuinely listening and responding.

An important life lesson: having responsibility for a team doesn’t make you a leader, and many people in elevated ‘leadership’ roles are not leaders. Management comes with a title but leadership status is earned.

Asking the straightforward question "what blockers can I help remove to enable you to be more successful" has a lot of impact in building trust.

Has anyone used (is using) a "how to work with" guide before? I have seen it from leaders, and it did help me. On the other hand, some people didn't like it too much.

I think how your manager/leader shares bad news is a big indicator of trust.

We do “employee user manuals” when people join the team. I don’t love the name - nobody wants to be used - but the idea works and they’re also pretty fun.

Trust is easy to lose. I have never seen that person in the same way after an “event” where trust was lost. Especially if it impacted my team dynamic .? Do other’s feel the same?? it’s rare that I can regain trust fully in that executive.

Trust Killer = Asking questions you aren’t willing to respect the answer to. Don’t have to agree, but do have to respect.

I have done this loosely in the past but will do this moving forward. Having “agreements” on how we work together….as individuals and teams, I think is a good way to establish trust and excel at communications.

Whenever I join a new company or hire new people on my team, I tell them that the lion’s share of my job is to shield them from the BS - that my job is to put them in a position to succeed. How can I succeed as a leader if my team isn’t successful? Their success is my success. My teams know that - they get the credit when things go well, and I take the blame when they don’t.

And that’s what I look for in a leader

From “thin book of trust” - Make and Use Team Agreements Talk about and agree on how you will work with each other, including how you will work through disagreements and conficts; how decisions will be made; how you will make, keep or change commitments (see the chapter on reliability); what regular practices you will keep, such as starting each meeting with a quick check-in; how you will communicate with each other; and how you will hold each other accountable. Keeping team agreements–and addressing it when they the team fails to keep one of them–builds and strengthens trust in sincerity within the team. Review them regularly to make sure they are still relevant and being upheld.

Not walking the walk is an instant trust buster

Love what Brene Brown says - Trust is build in small momemts and lost in also small moments.? There are the big oops, but everyday it’s about 10small things

Some people come into work / relationship inherently trusting others and you can loose their trust ; others come in not trusting at first, and you have to earn their trust. Understanding where each employee is coming from is so important to build a tight team.

Simon Sinek shares Navy Seal’s quadrant on High Performer vs. Trust.? The 30k view is one of the highest performing orgs in the world values trust more than high performance.? Of course you want both, but that’s not always avail. Low trust, high performers are toxic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdXjtSnZTI .

This reminds me of Adam Grants' talk on power vs. status. He says power is control of resources. Status is competence + care.? Interesting podcast on this just dropped.

There have been moments where I have eroded trust with my team. And in 10000% of the time, its due to a fear that I am holding on to.

Marketing bosses behave differently because of pressure from their bosses and stakeholders so it's good to understand

My guess is you’re always second guessing their integrity

I’ve given Trust workshops with client teams and use this Trust Busters as a starting point, asking people when they’ve experienced these. The stories are mind boggling! This is not my own - from EOS.

It’s giving radical candor

you hire people for aptitude and fire them for attitude. I give a lot of weight to hiring people for attitude first and foremost and aptitude second. You can always learn new things, especially if you are passionate and have the right attitude.

vulnerability

Frameworks are great - I’m wired that way too. But they require good intent. I’m reminded of the Silicon Valley episode where the COO candidate says “I’m going to be radically candid with you, Richard”…and then proceeds to lie his ass off.

Justice League of Marketing - people with diverse and complementary superpowers who trust each other and have a single mission as a whole.

I agree with this 100% and introduced this concept to my last CEO. He said in words he adopted this phrase, but when the rubber hit the road, that was certainly not the case. I did NOT like radical candor when he was in the crosshairs…btw, the business went broke. Just sayin’

I'm always surprised (shouldn't be) that leaders think it's OK to "blow up" to their people.? I get you're emotional and upset, I get that way too, and maybe some blow ups drive action, but are they ever long-term productive?

Kind candor is better. I’m giving you this feedback because I genuinely believe it will help you, and our professional relationship.

Beware of too much virtue signaling! A former CEO who was super righteous about transparency and valuing employees had the leadership team plan two levels of layoffs.

Then in the most disingenuous move ever, he laid off half the company including me and my team instead of following the plan.

Agree, should be kind but candid. I’a also add respectful

My working definition of trust is when someone’s words and actions align on a consistent basis over time.

Gratitude and appreciation. As a leader, admitting you don't know everything and that's why you rely on your team.

When I hire someone, I let them know that I consider my responsibility to them lasts beyond the role. They are trusting me and my organization with their livelihood, and ideally we are starting a mutually beneficial professional relationship that can last throughout your career (and mine). Basically work hard for me and with me, win together and I have your back and am your ally through life if you want it - even if it means helping you find a different role when the time is right.

would love the recap on how to handle hard conversations? and under performers while? keeping trust with the rest of the team

Reciprocal commitment to honest, constructive communication.? That's trust.

Yes.? I am protective of my global distributed teams. I try to remove the complexity in workflow. When trust is lost from one of our superiors or partners. The directives and actions become more confusing or ill-fitting for the team dynamic.? (Make sense?)

Love languages in the workplace ??

true that ?? — been there. You can see it in their eyes early, if you look.

Golden rule also assumes that you treat YOURSELF kindly. Not everyone has that background.

Pizza, whiskey, I can't remember the other three

IMO - But you cannot always do the things that your team might want to do….especially if you disagree with the idea or have concerns.? How do you maintain trust when there is this a mismatch between the leader and a team member?

It’s next to impossible

No one, or leader is perfect. But can you recognize when you are wrong and have the EQ to acknowledge it with your employee?

Believe people when they show you who they are

Rebuilding trust begins with an honest, authentic 1-1 and then actions meet behavior and words

It depends what the issue was/is...

when Trust is lost?? Don’t believe it is possible to regain full trust.? It also may depend where you are in the Org. As a CMO or an officer of the company.?? (personally it’s not possible for me, the risk is too great)

Person has to admit they were untrustworthy

Do I need to the entire organization to trust me, or just my peers + immediate team?

Someone reporting to me once told me, with hands shaking and tears, that I had betrayed her. I was shocked, it felt like an arrow to the heart, but we had an open conversation about what had happened, and that conversation created so much trust between us. As hard as that conversation was, I was so grateful to her for being so honest with me. And that conversation proved to her that she could come to me safely with hard things. It was a huge learning moment for me.

Thanks so much for this awesome. Real conversation.

Has trust ever been broken outside the department that impacted trust with the team? I have had to make cuts that I did not want to do - I have challenged my bosses to fire me first before firing others…

I wonder if s toxic culture or a pressure cooker environment creates a culture of distrust. But when people get out of that environment, they’re inherently trustworthy.

Well said!? Clarity is kindness

There is ART in how you communicate this!!!

I wonder if some inconsistency of behavior in leaders is happening these days b/c the kind of macroeconomic pressure in marketing right now has become very high with BODs putting very unnatural pressure on leaders for growth rates that justify overblown valuations. I had a very seasoned CEO known to be a great people leader apologize profusely to me over and over recently in that context saying "this is not who I am"...

Good observation. It’s easy to be a high-integrity person during easy times. Tough times reveal character.

The BOD is dictating more and more, and I find that some/many CEOs don’t have the backbone to stand up to the BOD. They have fear.

I assume some of my employees have lost trust over me over the years when I had to deliver news I didn’t want to deliver and didn’t agree with. This is arguably the shittiest part of the job.

Sometimes it's also about buffering and protecting your team from chaos in the org/leadership.

Yes, I've seen many CEOs have a lot of fear recently b/c the investors themselves are afraid they won't raise another fund. So each layer is transmitting that fear further down

Favorite framework hack…tell me the framework/rubric you used to evaluate the thing you’re recommending over the other options you considered. What makes this the way to go?

Good article on 7 Trust Builders - most/all have been cited in this chat/discussion. https://www.ddiworld.com/blog/build-trust-in-the-workplace

I have had coworkers I didn’t like but I trusted & respected.

Our VP of SEO at one company described himself as a “shit umbrella” for his team. It worked well.

THANK YOU for such an interesting conversation

Lighting the Way: Nine Women Who Changed Modern America

https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Way-Changed-Modern-America/dp/1401360157

Clarity is Kindness —??

Please define what you mean by “trust?”

And why so low?

I feel like too many of my boss relationships have been DADT.

I think trust has elements of believing the other person has your back. The person wants what’s best for you and acts accordingly.

Would love to hear other perspectives on a trust-based culture from all of you as well!?

I also think that the standard for Trust changes based on relationship type. There is probably an appropriate level of trust at work that maybe we wouldn’t call Trust in our personal lives.

Trust for me is transparency.? The bosses I've always struggled to trust were those I felt were never being straight with me.

Great point, not totally related but I hate when people say their colleagues are family. It's not really a good analogy.

Exactly…100% agree.

Trust is also not pretending to have all the answers.? Transparency doesn't mean you know everything, it means you'll be honest about what you do and don't know.

A magic quadrant with trust on one access and respect on the other…maybe a good way to evaluate.? Ps: I hate that I just said “magic quadrant”

call it a "Gold Zone" (see what I did there)

For those relationships where the leader has your back - what is the mutual trust exchange that enables that?

when the person at your wedding said “if there is any reason why anyone objects to this marriage…” you didn’t say “hey I have to go launch a website,” right? ??

Transparency is probably less important to me than authenticity and vulnerability.

What are some of the challenges you eluded to where it sounds like maybe the team didn’t trust one another at first?

Trust is built when the team has confidence that the leader knows what they’re doing and is providing the right strategy, support, and resources that align with the company’s mission and does so constantly and with as little ambiguity as possible.

I like the term "radical candor." If you can't freely and confidently be radically candid, you don't really have trust.

Whatever you call that situation, it sucks.? I’m sorry.

This is very simple, do NOT take a senior level exec job without a built in severance package. Once you do that, you can then feel a bit more comfortable being “open” with the CEO.

I call it end game...

That book by Kim Scott is amazing

I’ve been here since founding for 10 years…and have not employment contract. So dumb. We were all friendly and didn’t “need” a severance package plan.

Big believer in the first team concept!

Maybe re-negotiate ? If everyone is “friends”, see how quickly that changes if you decide to leave and they act like you stabbed them in the back personally.

I also love the Lencioni ‘disagree & commit’ model. It creates a lot of trust when someone you disagree with knows they can count on you to support them once a decision is made.

Tying back to the point about access — it’s feels like a common denominator to a lot of these points. If you don’t invest time in someone to create and maintain a foundation, its hard to feel comfortable practicing radical candor, saying no, etc

I’ve been thinking about that a lot recently also.

Curious if you all have examples of how you established trust with a new team as a leader coming into an organization.? Do you jump into radical candor or do you manage over time?? Thinking about this as I look for my next role.? Examples of success?

Meet them on their turf

I’m a big non-believer in radical candor

Big fan of servant leader approach here.

Thank you for the discussion. Hot topic for me right now.

I think about first team as a guide to how I spend my time. I used to spend more time with my leaders than with my peers. Once I changed that and focused on spending more time with the other c-suite executives, learning more about their goals and really teaming with them to solve problems in the business, my approach to marketing changed and I was better equipped to help my team be successful.

Transparency and authenticity. Letting your team you will fight for them. Respecting different work styles.

Yes, it’s a tough one! I was actual asked if I believe in First Team by a CEO in a VP Marketing interview. He was clearly looking for a binary answer and not I consider both teams (exec and direct reports) as first teams.

When building trust, actions speak louder than words. I always aim to be my authentic self and open with the my team and colleagues. But trust is really earned when you can demonstrate you truly do have their back and you are there for them

I agree; I’ve seen “radical candor” used as permission to be an asshole. Agree that “saying the thing” is born out of trust.

Also, I believe any negative comments about me, even if it isn’t true.?? Which is why Radical Candor doesn’t always work. It’s someone else’s opinion that I too easily take on.

I think the binary answer is the real problem. Life, and especially leadership, is full of dichotomies and we need to figure out how to manage that tension between the two choices because there is no real “answer”.

Because of the power dynamic and fear of losing your job. If someone who can fire you, can say “you are a jerk” you worry about being canned. And if you think your boss is a jerk, you might not say it because you are afraid of being canned.

“Jerks” in the workplace are often the most fragile people. Their off-putting behavior is their defense.

Yes and it’s up to leadership to not enable it.

I lost trust in a leader when they had double standards between the rest of the leadership team and themselves — exhibited the opposite of leading by example.

Also, I think it’s unreasonable to think that any of us can give good reviews, radically candid or not. The only real information I can provide to another human is how what they did made me feel. Check out “Nine Lies About Work” by Marcus Buckingham and Ashley Goodall

100%. I LOVE that book.

Having a borrow vs steal mentality

Why an hour? Does that not cause unneeded chatter and distractions

the fact that your team members are willing to come on and be open is a testament to your leadership qualities. Great job, and congrats!

for most of the type of activities we’re doing, that hour mark is a good opportunity to check in, get some feedback, make sure things are on the right track

Why wouldn’t someone bring it to them “guess you decided to show up”

I’ve probably leaned too much to an extreme with feeling/believing that during and after my time in a company I care more about what my “team” meaning direct reports think about my leadership more than fellow execs. Admittedly reassessing, trying to balance better.

I feel like next time I was late and he commented, I would have responded “wait you showed up 8 minutes late last week so I thought that was the new norm"

Great example... manager who lived 15 mins from the office... wouldn't come in if it rained..? expected me to commute 2 hours a day, every day after my kid broke his leg

But also not yet convinced on going all-in on “First Team” as commonly defined

Agreed - I see when our younger team members lose trust with senior leadership it is often from a series of watching leadership operate with small double standards like the late meeting example. Our teams are really watching what senior team does even if they don’t directly comment on it. So trust building happens every day.

Same, I’m like you, I’ve defaulted to “my team” as the people who report to me and wanting to ensure they are taken care of, etc…? and I think that’s good, but there’s definitely a line where it doesn’t help anyone if I’m not also being part of the leadership team.

Ha yeah. I had to tell a team member once “yes, you can go to the bathroom between meetings and if you’re a couple of minutes late, that’s ok.” Wild

Thank you for the lively and insightful conversation of Trust!

Important topic! Thank you!

Great conversation and sharing today.? Thank you