IN HIS FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE LEAVING FOX, HUMAN ATTENTION-GATHERER JOE MARCHESE ON WHAT SUCKS, HOW TO FIX IT, AND MY PITCH FOR HIS NEW TV SHOW

Yesterday, Joe Marchese published a provocative manifesto on the attention economy and the troubled state of media and advertising. As he leaves his role as President of Advertising Revenue for Fox, I convinced him to tell us what he really thinks. Just kidding, Joe Marchese does that every day anyway. Here's our interview. It's not very neutral...

RM: You just left Fox. Now you can really say what you think.

JOE: Riiiiight.

RM: As if Joe Marchese has ever held back! Tell us everything that's wrong with media and entertainment today.

JOE: Advertising.

RM: Shocker.

JOE: The model isn't keeping up with a way to support high quality content. Sports will be fine, but with high-quality episodic storytelling, the advertising model is just absolutely killing itself.

RM: I thought you were fixing all that?

JOE: It's interesting because when you're outside, it's like, "Oh, all they’ve gotta do is fix this." When you're inside, it's like, "All we gotta do is fix this." And then you realize there's no one person, no one part of the value chain.

RM: So who do we blame for the advertising model sucking?

JOE: It's not the client's fault, exclusively. It's not the industry's fault, exclusively. It's not the network's fault, exclusively. But each contributes to keeping the status quo. And we’re not always putting the consumer’s needs first.

THE FOX YEARS

RM: You were at Fox for more than four years. Busy years. How would you characterize your approach to driving change?

JOE: You have to believe this is the right thing to do. You can't operate in a state like, "I need to make sure I protect my position." That's any corporate environment. I'd actually say Fox is more prone to supporting entrepreneurs. It’s funny, in a startup, the leader’s job is to keep focus, whereas in a big corporate environment a leader's job is to encourage trying new things.

RM: If this is soccer, you’re a striker. You want the ball, and you want to score. But I don't see you playing a lot of defense. Is that fair to say?

JOE: Absolutely fair...from what I understand about soccer.

RM: What will people remember most about your time at Fox? What do you hope they remember?

JOE: Hopefully that I really wanted to push the industry forward because it was going to be good for everybody. In order to fix things for the consumer, we all have to come together. Pushing for that is something I hope continues. I also hope for more innovation, this idea that there's nothing too scary to try. And getting people excited about it.

ON HAVING AN OPINION ABOUT...EVERYTHING

RM: I pretty much had to have you on No Neutral because you’re the least neutral person I know. In fact, I can't think of anything you’re neutral about.

JOE: I know I hold a lot of opinions, but I don't hold them absolutely. You have to be able to be willing to change them if you get new information.

RM: People would be very curious to know who Joe Marchese listens to and learns from.

JOE: Oh man, that’s a tough one. There's such a network of people. Human Ventures alone plugs me into a massive and diverse network of industry leaders. I feel like I try to spend as much time as I can with so many different people, and everyone's got a little nugget.

RM: Tell us about a time in your career where you were so certain of something that, because of that, you took a strong position when it wasn't safe?

JOE: Co-founding true[X]. It's almost better to be naive than fully understanding what's about to come next.

RM: Well, in the case of true[X] and then Human Ventures, which you also created, it worked out pretty well. Your time at Fox was intense. Naturally, there’s a lot of speculation about what you’re going to do next.

JOE: I'm willing to say I can figure it out when I get there. I joke with Heather Hartnett, who is the CEO of Human Ventures, because people have asked me, "Are you gonna go work in investing?" Truth is, I'm a terrible investor. I'd be the worst investor. She is a great investor. I am a builder. I think every idea I see can work.

RM: That’s funny because you’ve always been great at putting other people’s money where your mouth is. And with Human Ventures, you've put a lot of your own money where your mouth is. You've made so many bets on entrepreneurs in your career.

JOE: I really just made a bet on a philosophy of how the next generation of companies will be built, and on Heather. Human has a whole portfolio of founders who meet this ideal of who we think would be great founders, great humans. Heather's the leader.

RM: One thing I love about you is that you're always looking for a way to the yes. You never want to say no because you see the possibilities, and you say, "There's definitely a number of ways we could get there. Let's work through that."

JOE: Totally. I'm a builder, which means I can jump into anything and I say I'll figure it out when I get in.

RM: What’s next for Human Ventures?

JOE: I’m excited about what we call the “Human First.” We think that human-first technology is the next trillion dollar industry. Technology that doesn't take us out of being human gives us more humanity. Human Ventures already deals with life stages and wellness, capital, how people spend and save money. Obviously attention's a huge one. I think how people spend their attention leads to how people treat each other, how happy they are. So that's gonna be the biggest new category. That’s where I’ll be spending my time.

ON BELIEF SYSTEMS & NEVER BEING NEUTRAL

RM: I've seen you win people over, one by one, and I've seen you convince thousands of people to believe in something, on stage. Talk about the power of persuasion.

JOE: I think the key to persuasion is belief. My father had this saying: “The good thing about telling the truth is you never have to remember what you said.” I can be amazingly consistent in what I say because I actually believe the things that I'm talking about. It’s why I always hate reading off the teleprompter. Hate it. Because it's so much more persuasive to be up there and say what you believe.

RM: Speaking of our values and what we believe…business leaders are feeling more pressure than ever to take positions on issues they could hide from, in the past. That’s why we launched this series with LinkedIn. What's your advice to business leaders in this “No Neutral” world?

JOE: Man, it feels like business leaders can take a position but then not actually do anything. It's sad.

RM: That is so true.

JOE: We can cite examples of people who have done it. And who have done it to the benefit of their business in taking the position. But then there's a vast swath of people who take a moral position...but then don’t change their business to match. I see that as unfortunate.

RM: Do brands matter anymore?

JOE: I have a very, very strong opinion that the reason why brands will be more important than ever in the future is because you have someone to hold responsible for your clothes being made correctly. To be responsible for the correct disposal of waste. As soon as we go to a no-brand world, where everything's commoditized and you buy it through the platform without knowing what the brand is, who do you hold responsible? What are your values? I don't know if we've gotten there quite yet, but it's a long game; the strength in your brand is the margin. And I think we're seeing it with brands out there who've decided to stand up for what they believe in.

RM: That’s what this series is all about.

JOE: If you're going to be purpose-based, what does that really mean? Then when you know what that means, what's your delivery of that story? I think we underestimate how much human beings understand the world through stories. We couldn't function otherwise. I think it's a huge opportunity for the ones who get it right. Because when this is all done, the ones who got it right will be the ones with the most upside. Brands are the sum of the stories that people collectively believe about them. What are your belief systems? It makes for cultural relevance.

RM: So there’s hope.

JOE: I think that if we're going to turn a corner in terms of collective civil discourse, we need to have quality shared stories. We need to talk about things that are real, and that are inspiring, that tell us stories about the tragedies but also what we can do about them. I think Picture Motion, as an agency, embodies that. I also think as companies see more financial upside from it, it'll be a very big deal.

A TV SHOW WITH RICH GREENFIELD?

RM: Last question and probably my favorite. Should there be a television show hosted by you and Rich Greenfield?

JOE: We could never have a television show because he doesn't believe in television! Rich only believes in Netflix. So let's be clear.

RM: Okay, so we’ll put it on Netflix.

JOE: I think we would just argue over the economics of a bundle to start with, which would be fun. Rich and his famous #goodluckbundle, me with my bundling. We'd talk about startups. What we'd think would work and wouldn't work. It'd be kinda hard to breathe in there between the two of us, I bet.

RM: When you come up with a name, let me know.

JOE: I’ll get right on that.

This LinkedIn series, #NoNeutral, tells the real stories of business leaders who are bravely taking brand positions that aren’t exactly safe. Ross Martin, CEO of Brand Strategy & Business Innovation firm Blackbird, talks directly to the executives who make it happen. No bullshit, no puffery, just reality. The stories of what actually happened behind the scenes…and how. For more, email [email protected].