Get Hired with Andrew Seaman Transcript: Career Transitions with Crystal Barrow

Welcome to Get Hired with Andrew Seaman , which is part of the LinkedIn Podcast Network ! This week, Andrew chats with career coach Crystal Barrow of Shape Your Success Coaching to get into the ins and outs of how – and when – to make a career change. Be sure to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts so you don't miss an episode. Also, rate and review the show to help other people find the episodes.

Andrew: From LinkedIn News, this is Get Hired, a podcast for the ups and downs of our professional lives. I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn’s senior news editor for job searches and careers. Each week on Get Hired, we'll talk about leveling up. Sometimes we'll talk about finding work. Other times we'll talk about excelling where you are right now. And through it all, we'll focus on how to stay true to yourself in the process.

One of the reasons we at LinkedIn are calling today's big workplace trend the Great Reshuffle instead of the Great Resignation is that people aren't just quitting and sitting at home. They're making transitions. Some people are making lateral moves within the same industry to get better balance or benefits. Others are shifting fields entirely. And if you're one of those people craving a change, it can sometimes be difficult to know where to begin, which is why I'm so excited for today's guest.

Crystal Barrow is a career coach and the founder of Shape Your Success Coaching. But before she started helping other people make career moves, she spent years making some leaps of her own. She started her career in federal law enforcement before going to law school. Once she got her degree, she worked in a wide variety of public sector jobs, including for the New York State attorney general. Then she made another pivot and started working in higher education as an assistant dean of a law school. Basically, Crystal is no stranger to career transitions. But I know that a big career change can be nerve-wracking. How do you even begin to explore that possibility? Here's Crystal.

Crystal: I get this a lot. And even for myself, each time I wanted to make a change, I really thought about "Well, what's out there?" You get comfortable in what is either the comfort zone or not really that comfortable, but we call it the comfort zone, or you're strapped by those golden handcuffs that you can't really even think about what that next move might be. And so for me, I always tell people just start thinking about and exploring what opportunities even exist for you. What do you enjoy doing? Maybe it's parts of a previous job or a current job that you really enjoy and would like to continue doing it, but in a different industry or in a different fashion or with a different approach. The first thing is just take a step back and really explore what are some of the opportunities out there for you. That can be the foundation for you then to shape your strategies, shape your approach to making a transition.

Andrew: Yeah, I think a lot of people look around and they say, "I might want to do this. I might want to do that," but they're not sure necessarily where they want to pivot or how they want to make that leap. How do you suggest people figure out that it's right for you then?

Crystal: There's two things that I would recommend. One is job board sites, I think we all know, can sometimes be job black holes, right? You could put an application out there, but one of the main things, a good thing about job board sites is that you can look at job descriptions to see what's required of particular roles. You can get a sense of not only what they're looking for people to do, the type of characteristics or personality traits that they're looking for, technical skills, soft skills that are required, education that's required. Those things can really be almost your best friend in terms of great starting points to see what is required for a particular type of move that you're interested in. Once you have that, you can now start to do your own strengths assessment and see, "Well, what are my skills?" And this is where I also help people a lot because a lot of people don't even see all the wonderful things that they have to offer to a new employer, even if it's in a new industry. So we might focus on the transferable skills, right? You want to take an assessment and create a highlight reel for yourself. Then lastly, don't forget what you value. This is the missing ingredient and why most people jump from job to job. Number one is what is it that you really need and want in that next career move for you to have fulfillment, not just perform the functions of the job, but what is it that you need to thrive there in the people, in the employer, in the mission, in the values, and are you aligned with that?

Andrew: And then what do you think are the next steps to really making that jump? How do I translate that into a sales pitch for yourself to say, "Listen, I did this thing before. It can be an asset to me in this new career or this new space”?

Crystal: I love that you talked about the pitch, Andrew, because honestly, that's what it's going to come down to for being able to stand out amongst the competition and in an unprecedented job market. And so you might refer to this as your value proposition. Here's where I'm going to try to blow your mind a little bit today, okay? Your value proposition needs to really be five to six sentences. This is where you really talk about who you are, what you do, how you do it, and the unique way in which you do it and perhaps even maybe who you've done it for. You can see how this can benefit in so many ways, not just in your networking conversations and relationship building conversations, where you introduce yourself, whether it's using it for your LinkedIn profile in your about section, whether it's at the top of your resume, whether it is providing blurbs to people when you network that can help pass that information on to opportunities that you might be a good fit for. How do you tell your story in a very brief and concise way? You can have the best value proposition, but if no one knows about it, it's not going to serve you. And you got to know your “why.” We all know the job search and career transitions is a rollercoaster, right? It's ups and downs. It's crickets. It's clusters of fantastic feedback, but you need to have something to hold on to to come back to when the going gets tough. That is the “why.” Why are you making the transition? It's also a popular interview question, right? So do the work up front and understand why you're looking to make a transition and be able to communicate and to pull back on that when the going gets tough.

Andrew: Job searching, career changes, they're still difficult, no matter what the economic situations are. There are some people who make quick jumps over to a new company, to a new industry, but they're the exception and not the rule. So, what are your suggestions for people who are maybe in their 50s, 60s, 70s, who want to make a change or try something new in the job market? What are your suggestions for them?

Crystal: It's very daunting, right? I have to update my resume? What resume? What interview questions are they asking now? Then of course, there's age discrimination or age bias that we know does exist. And so there are several ways in which to try to combat it. First of all, again, I'm going to stress the mindset going into it. It's definitely difficult, but I say it's not impossible. The fact is you can make choices along the way in terms of what you ultimately decide to do. But there are certainly people with 30, 40 years experience making career transitions. What it comes down to is really doing a real good assessment of what the value proposition, that value that you're going to bring to your next employer.? And the number one way in which people are making these transitions is through networking and relationship building. So some of the things that you can do, even if you are above 40, 50 years old and beyond, is to go back to former colleagues, hiring managers that you were working with or maybe recruiters that you had been in touch with, just reconnect. Don't get in your head about how long it's been since you've spoken to someone. Just get into action. Take small steps to move the needle in the direction that you're trying to go, right? Ask for recommendations so that you can really speak to your skillset. Give concrete examples of all the amazing experience, after so many years, that you can bring to the table.

Andrew: Yes. One of the stories that I remember from my previous career as a medical reporter is I remember calling up an expert in a specific type of surgery, and he basically told me that he had retired but they brought him back because he was an expert in a specific type of surgery. All the younger new surgeons were experienced on laparoscopic, newer surgery techniques, but sometimes complicated surgeries need more invasive procedures. So they actually were bringing back older doctors to do that work. What I always tell people is to say “I have all this experience, and this is how I can use it for you,” because employers are selfish. They want to know what you're going to do for them.

Crystal: Yes. I agree.

Andrew: We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, Crystal tackles pivoting after a career gap and choosing your time wisely.

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Andrew: OK, so you've decided that you're going to take that leap and switch industries, but what now? If you don't have a large network in your field, how do you start to put out those feelers? Here's Crystal.

Crystal: The idea is to have conversations with people and just look at it as that, conversations to get information. And detach from the outcome. If someone doesn't get back to you or is not responsive or unresponsive in the timing that you would like it to be, don't worry about it. You can literally just go ahead, send an invitation to connect, personalize. I always recommend personalizing that invitation to connect. Then when you reach out and have introduced yourself, take the next step. "Thank you for accepting my invitation to connect. I see that you're working at target X company. I'm looking to make a transition to a company like this. Would you mind giving me 15 to 20 minutes to tell me more about your experience?" This is conversation. You're not asking right out for a job. You're looking for information that's going to help you make the informed decision. You're looking to have conversation. You're looking to expand your network, build your network. One of the biggest regrets is when someone has landed their job and they look back and they say, "Man, I should have been connecting with people all along." Never too late to start though. Identify those that you feel comfortable reaching out to and this can be at various degrees. Maybe they would be at your peer level. Maybe they would be recruiters or hiring managers. Another fantastic way to get in touch with people is to get an introduction. Scour people's profiles, "Oh, I'm looking to work at X company. I see that you know X and X. Would you mind doing an introduction for me after a brief chat so I can share more of what I'm looking to do in my transition?"

Andrew: One thing I love about the Get Hired community is how many different fields and backgrounds you all have. So I wanted to make sure that we touched on a common question for people who are newer to the workforce, maybe just out of school. How do you make college coursework stand out on your resume? Here's Crystal.

Crystal: In my opinion and in my experience, most recruiters, hiring managers are looking at that top third of your resume. If you can have a skill section at the top that emphasizes those transferable skills that are relevant to the jobs, literally just create another section – core competencies, areas of expertise, skills – where you could have a combination of the technical skills as well as some soft skills. If you're early in your career and you have relevant courses that you want to highlight, you can certainly do that at the top. If you're still at that stage, maybe under five years and you have the education listed at the top of your resume, and there you can highlight some coursework. Again, just making sure that it's geared for that specific role that you're interested in. That is always a great way to also stand out. And don't forget, especially if you're looking for a career change or a career transition, the cover letter allows you to tell your story why you're interested in making the move that you're making.

Andrew: What do you think is the right time to make a career pivot?

Crystal: It's really a matter of, and I hope it doesn't sound too cliche, but it really is a matter of when it's the right time for you, you will definitely know it. You will either find yourself trying to talk yourself out of it and trying to keep yourself in an uncomfortable or safe situation. Or you will feel the tug in a passionate way to do something different. What happens though is that people will then get in their head and the fear of the change and what it all means and the work that's involved will start to come up. Always be checking in with yourself. For me, each and every time I made a transition, it was not just tugs and whispers and intuition nudging me in a certain direction, but it was also… I started taking off more days at work, Mondays and Fridays. I started taking longer lunch breaks. You know for yourself the symptoms that start to show themselves. So it's really just about assessing and being honest and true to what you want to do. And if you can find the employer that you can identify, they’re hiring because they have a need, if you can identify what those things are, match those up with your superpower, your skills and strengths, and you can identify them, we all have them, then you have the recipe to make the transition.

Andrew: Like Crystal said, you've got to trust your intuition. Career changes don't just happen at the snap of a finger. There are a ton of steps between that first urge and making a successful pivot and you can make a first move today. Maybe you can start by reaching out to folks in the industry you're thinking about or taking a hard look at your transferable skills. You never know. It might just lead to a win. Speaking of wins, it's time for my favorite part of the show, our career win of the week. Here's listener Eric.

Eric: Hi, my name is Eric. Last week, I landed my first full-time permanent position. My job will primarily consist of keeping all alumni and donor data updated and organized and processing all gifts made to the university.

Andrew: Congratulations, Eric. If you want to share your job search win, email us or send us a voice memo to [email protected]. We'd love to celebrate you on the show.

Remember, it's up to you to put this advice into practice. Still, you always have a community backing you up and cheering you on. Connect with me and the Get Hired community on LinkedIn to continue the conversation. You can also join my weekly Get Hired live show every Friday at noon on the LinkedIn News page. If you like this episode, leave us a rating on Apple podcasts. It helps people like you find the show. And of course, we'll continue this conversation next week. Right here, wherever you like to listen.

Get Hired is a production of LinkedIn News. The show is produced by Michele O'Brien with help from Gianna Prudente and Wes Wingo. Joe DiGiorgi mixed our show. Florencia Iriondo is head of original audio and video. Dave Pond is our technical director. Dan Roth is the editor-in-chief of LinkedIn. I'm Andrew Seaman. Until next time, stay well and best of luck.