Exploring the Intersection of Neuroscience & Design
How can principles of neuroscience inform the design of more inclusive and accessible workspaces?
We recently hosted a successful panel event at DESIGN+BUILD!
This panel promotes a more equitable workplace through a collaborative, interdisciplinary dialogue featuring four perspectives: Neuroscience, DEI, Workplace Strategy, and Design. Topics discussed include designing for mental health and well-being, workplace flexibility, empowering neurodiversity in the workplace, and more.
Meet Our Panelists
To view the recording, click here :
Transcript
[Music, people walking in, shots of the DESIGN+BUILD office]
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Introduction
Maddy Mackin Freeman: So today, I’m really excited to have you all here for this panel we’re calling “Beyond Space,” where we’ll be talking about the intersection of neuroscience and design and how we can best support people who come from all different backgrounds and walks of life in the built environment, specifically in workspaces.
?So, I’d love to just have a quick round of introductions. I can start and then I’ll sort of go down the line here. I’m Maddy Mackin Freeman, the Design Director here at DESIGN+BUILD. I lead our team of architects, interior designers, and furniture managers, and we work with our construction team really closely to talk about how to actually build the space from the very beginning of our design engagement with our clients. I’ll start [over here].
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Kadi Rae Smith:?I’m a student over at PSU and I study neuroscience. I also work with Northwest Noggin as a volunteer. We go to low-income schools, community centers, youth outreach shelters, and correctional facilities to teach about the brain and the body. We use arts to engage people and also to engage different parts of the brain to make the information more accessible and ensure it sticks a little deeper. This is Roadie, Rosito. This is my seizure signal dog, very important for my life as I have sporadic daily seizures. He also had PTSD training before I got him, so he signals for cortisol spikes, neuroepinephrine spikes, stress hormones. So if he looks at you and maybe tries to give you a little paw, you might be a little stressed, I'd tell you.
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[Laughter]
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Darcy Southwell:?He helps all of us.
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Maddy Mackin Freeman:?I love it, and we got a bonus on our panel.
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Darcy Southwell:?So, I’m Darcy Southwell. I have a consulting firm, Southwell Solutions. I focus on equity and inclusion in the workplace. I mostly work with small to medium-sized businesses, doing assessments as far as how they can build equity into their recruiting practices and access a much larger talent pool. I'm also doing workshops on inclusive communication and inclusive leadership.
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Jennie Perlmutter:?I’m Jennie Perlmutter, an architect by training, so I’m kind of in my element here. Most recently, I was at Nike, leading up workplace design and workplace delivery for them. That really led into workplace strategy, which is my bread and butter right now. Looking at kind of when we think about the future, and we think of our future workforce and our current workforce, what do they want and how do we better prepare ourselves to provide the right physical spaces for that workforce.?
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Maddy Mackin Freeman:?Today, I’d like to start with just defining neurodiversity and what we are talking about when we say that. So, [Kadi Rae] would you mind giving us a quick introduction?
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Defining Neurodiversity
Kadi Rae:?Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, neurodivergence or neurodiversity are simply differences in the physiological aspects of our brains. With neurodivergent people, like you said, there’s a spectrum. We all know about the spectrum, but it’s not just one spectrum; like they talk about the autism spectrum, there’s also the ADHD spectrum and everything in between. So physiologically, ADHD is on one side of the spectrum, and autism is on the other, people tend to fall in between. There’s a normal curve where people tend to fall in the middle, with some aspects of this and some aspects of this.
With ADHD and autism, what’s talked about probably the most are sensory perceptual differences, such as overloads or underloads of stimulus, which is less talked about. But basically some regions of the brain may develop faster, particularly the frontal regions involved in reasoning and feeling. This affects the pathways in your brain that make you feel secure and safe and help you understand the world. When you develop faster than your peers, you don’t have the cognitive or social tools yet to deal with what’s going on in your brain, making everything feel more intense.
It’s also a difference in compartmentalization from ADHD to autism. For example, with ADHD, when we're talking with kids, it’s like you’re kind of floating in your feelings, whereas if you’re on the autism end of the spectrum, you’re trying to rapidly compartmentalize things. The friction comes when you’re floating too long and can’t get your feet on the ground if you’re on the ADHD side, or if you’re on the autism side, if something doesn’t fit into compartments that you already have built there's dissonance and not knowing what to do, that can cause disruption. Either way, dealing with disruptions and being able to plan for disruptions is a major part of living with neurodivergence.
My family has a history of neurodivergence; I am neurodivergent, coming from four generations deep. I learned many coping mechanisms from my grandpa before there were terms for these kinds of differences in our brains. It was just like, “Our family works this way, people don’t understand it, here’s what we do about it.” So a lot of what I do now is working with kids and adults—mostly kids—teaching them what neurodivergence means and what they can do about it, and how to use their brains.
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Maddy:?Thanks, Kadi Rae. That’s super interesting and also a perfect segue into each of your experiences with neurodivergence or neurodivergent folks. Did you have anything you wanted to add before I move on to Darcy?
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Kadi Rae: Oh, [go ahead].
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Maddy: Ok, Darcy?
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Darcy:?Yeah, so I am actually neurotypical. I think my experience is with colleagues I’ve had over the years. Years ago, there was this perception of, “Oh, they’re just hard to work with.” Now, we’re recognizing that they’re not hard to work with—their brains just work differently. How can I adjust?
I had one colleague who was amazing—so intelligent—but had these, I would say a lot of people called them quirks in the office. They always wanted their door shut, always wanted the lights off, and really got upset if you stopped by to chat. I started realizing that if I would just send a message and say, “Hey, can we talk about this? When’s a good time for you?” all of a sudden, I wasn’t getting the resistance anymore. Other people were still struggling and saying, “Oh, they’re so difficult.” I’m like, “No, not really. Just adjust your way of thinking.”
They’re trying to fit into my world—why am I not trying to fit into theirs? My experience has been all about trying to figure out how to work really well with someone whose brain works differently. That’s all it is.
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Maddy:?Yeah, that’s great, and I like what you said about just the neurotypical folks not having the training, not knowing what to do, and sort of that societal approach that they’re quirky or they’re difficult. That’s not the current conversation, I think that's obviously really positive.
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Darcy:?It’s changing finally.
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Maddy:?Yeah.
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Kadi Rae:?Well, a lot of people don’t know they’re neurodivergent. A lot of people just think they have these specific things that they want to do or don’t know why things bother them, like textures and feelings. It’s like, oh, it’s just different sensory—literally different perceptions in your neurons, in your pyramidal cells, you know.
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Maddy:?Cool vocab on that. I need to make a note of that.
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Kadi Rae:?Yeah, not a moral failing or a personal quirk. It’s literally just this is how you work.
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Darcy:?Yeah.
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Jennie:?And I would say that I’m on kind of the beginning end of that journey compared to you all, learning more about it. Especially as I raise my kids and kind of watch how they learn and watch their peers, and start to see all these differences. It’s really starting to come up in normal lexicon—all these different learning styles or processing styles. That for me, I'm in a place of discovery, starting to understand traits that I see either in my kids, myself, or others, like, oh, that’s just slightly different. It’s not necessarily good or bad. How do we start to acknowledge those, talk about them, and design and create a world where all those different styles can thrive? So I’m at the beginning of the journey, I would say.
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Maddy:?Yeah. Cool, I mean, that’s how we start.
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Jennie:?Yup.
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Question 1: How do we effectively transition from a remote work environment to hybrid/fully in-person?
Maddy:?Yeah, so, I’d love to dive in, and this is for whoever would like to…
[Roadie the service dog, runs towards the audience and everyone laughs]
Haha, I’m like acutely aware of how stressed out people in our office are. I’d love to just jump in for whoever would like to answer, but how we can, starting to go to challenges and benefits and where we connect this with workspace. So the first question I want to ask is, how do we transition from a remote work environment to a hybrid, meaning part in person and part remote, or fully in person? And that will go into how we can converge the two topics of neuroscience and office attendance.
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Kadi Rae:?Spaces like these are a pretty good example of how you can accommodate and incentivize people to come back to work where there are personal spaces. A lot of being a college student during the pandemic and being at home and then transitioning to going to school on campus was a big difference. What I liked about being at home was I could wiggle, I could do my things, I could set a timer. Using timers a lot is very important to have something that helps you gauge time because of differences in perception as far as time goes. But yeah, having a safe space where I can do whatever I want, like getting up and jogging during class while still being present, was helpful. Whereas in school, there’s not that same opportunity.?
But in workplaces like this, you have rooms, isolated rooms where you can go if you need to, or you can walk around. Wide open spaces where you can walk around. Daylight is extremely important and helpful, so having light or daylight bulbs is crucial. I use daylight bulbs in the winter to get my brain going and endorphins flowing.
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Maddy: Yeah, extra important in this part of the world [Pacific Northwest].
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Kadi Rae: Yeah.
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Jennie:?I think the biggest thing is it’s all about choice, right? There’s a lot of choice in when you should come in, how often you should come in, and if you should come in. Since we’re talking about the physical workspace, choice within the workspace is really important. For example, people focus in many different ways. Some need very little stimulation and want it to be as isolated as possible with low lighting, so lighting controls are important for focus. Others need a ton of stimulation, so how do you have loud, vibrant spaces that offer a den-like atmosphere for people to focus? Sometimes people want to focus alone, and sometimes in groups, like coders and engineers who need deep focus but also want to work next to someone to quickly come out of focus and ask each other questions.
It’s really about understanding how to create all these layered different experiences—a lot of times they're opposite, like very loud and quiet spaces—and layering them into a workspace. So when it’s smaller, it’s kind of hard, but you can think about how to utilize other parts of the building and the amenities to provide these options. Really thinking about management policies of how you allow for that autonomy and agency, have that choice so people can choose what works best for them since everyone has different needs.?
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Darcy: Yeah, and I would say the same thing. It’s a lot about choice and giving people agency to make those decisions and figure out what works well for them. When you have total control of your environment at home, whether it is more stimuli, less stimuli, loud noises, quiet, lighting, etc., and then you come into a workspace, the more everyone has access to control what works for them, the more productive everyone becomes. It really is about choice and flexibility, of having all of these options. Especially if you’re redesigning your space, have dimmable lighting so it can be really bright in one area or a little darker for the engineers. Building flexibility in from the very beginning allows everyone to take control and find a space that helps them be productive and focus.
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Jennie:?Mhm. We were finding, on the lighting component, that in general, we way over-light our spaces. A lot of people, especially doing screen work, want a dimmer environment. But as people age, their eyes need additional light, so we started to think about personal lighting, having task lighting mandatory at every workstation so that you could have some control and really increase your lighting in those instances. It’s about creating individual choices within a group setting. I think that’s one of the hardest things to balance: how to create this sense of individuality while still collectively existing in a space together.
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Maddy:?Especially for the larger workforces, right? Coming from Nike, that’s not a small company to try to support.
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Jennie:?Yeah.
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Defining DEIB
Maddy: Darcy, I’d like to go back to your work and if you could give us a quick introduction into DEIB and what that means, and how that can be incorporated into people’s workspaces. I think especially the “B” might be something people haven’t heard before, so it would be good to get your take on that.
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Darcy:?Yeah, so, DEI was the original acronym, but it’s becoming DEIB. Some people are even adding an “A” for accessibility, so it becomes DEIBA. The “B” stands for belonging. So, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, accessibility, potentially. It’s all about a strategy that companies are choosing and the policies and decision-making that go along with that. I would say that inclusion and equity are the critical components. Diversity is really a result, and to some degree, even belonging is a result if you focus on making decisions centered on equity. It’s just what you were talking about: having options and considering all of the needs that your employees have, whether they’re neurotypical, neurodiverse, somewhere in the middle, or anything else. It’s about making it accessible for every human to be productive and come to work and thrive.
So, just making sure that your policies reflect that, your decisions, your resources, where you spend your money reflect that. When you’re planning a build, think about that. And then how your leaders lead in the office every day when they’re making decisions. The more they think about equity and inclusion, the more everyone feels like they are welcome and can come to work and be productive.
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Jennie:?I think, too, for leaders to recognize their limitations, right? Everyone comes with their own set of experiences, and they’re never going to fully have a first-person viewpoint of all the experiences.
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Darcy:?Right.
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Jennie:?So, the more they come with a really humble mindset of “I’m not going to understand this” and ask questions of others to make sure that it is inclusive, the better.
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Defining Workplace Strategy
Maddy:?And going with that, I would like to, not to say everybody define all of exactly what you do, but I would, Jennie, like to hear a little bit about what workplace strategy is and how we can combine all three of your specialties and topics of interest into this conversation around how we incorporate that in workspace. So, if you wouldn’t mind, workplace strategy?
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Jennie:?Yes. The way that I really think about it is work is continuing to change—how we work, when we work, where we work. It’s not static. Right now, we’re in a new era, and I don’t think where we are right now is the final destination. It is continuing to change, and it is changing quickly. I think our understanding is catching up to speed. If you think about the rate of change of technology, it’s an ever-accelerating change. Design and construction inherently is slow, even though the schedules feel really fast; it is very slow and very inflexible at the end of the day. Your physical portfolio isn’t something you can reprogram like a digital computer quickly. You can’t reprogram your space really quickly.
So, I really think about workplace strategy as trying to solve all of those really challenging tensions—the tension of how slow design and construction is and how immovable your physical portfolio is with all of these incredibly changing moments we have in our workforce and workplace, how we work with technology. It’s reconciling all of those to ask a lot of questions and try to plan flexibility for the future and to almost future-proof some of your decisions, doing the best you can to set yourself up for success.
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Maddy:?Mhm, yeah. So…
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Jennie:?Is that helpful?
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Maddy:?Very much so, absolutely. So, we’re thinking about planning. This is kind of an early part of a project where you would do a workplace strategy session or visioning?
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Jennie:?Yeah, and I would say, on a more tactical level, I’ve spent a lot of time working on activity-based workplace design, which I’m guessing most of you are familiar with. It’s the idea that your workplace is designed around the work itself that is happening, not necessarily you as an individual, and you use the workplace essentially as a tool to get your work done. What I was most recently doing was looking at how people’s jobs are different and how they need different things out of a workplace.
?If you take that engineer, for example, the amount of focus they’re going to need and what they need out of a physical workspace is going to be very different than a manager who’s in meetings all day and working face-to-face with people all day. So, when they come in, what they need is going to be very different. I was spending a lot of time thinking about how you start to standardize that across a large enterprise to create policies that have more flexibility versus everyone coming in and sitting at their desk. The nature of our work is that we’re all very different people doing very different work, and we have different needs out of our physical spaces.
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Question 2: How can organizations incorporate inclusivity into workplace culture?
Maddy: Yeah, that word choice coming back in again. So, what are some ways that you’ve seen? I’ll start with you, Jennie, and then move on to Darcy. And I’d be curious about your experience too, Kadi Rae, so we’ll go down the line. What are some examples you’ve seen of how a company can incorporate inclusivity into their culture?
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Jennie:?[To Darcy] I’ll almost let you start with culture.
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Darcy:?[Laughter] Wait, culture!
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Jennie:?Culture starts with the people, yeah. Cause we kind of take like how does it then show up in the place? I don’t know if you want to start with the people.
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Darcy:?I think one of the keys, especially applicable when we talk about workspaces, is to go ask your employees. You can create a very inclusive culture by making it a practice to consult your staff. There are lots of ways to do that, and I always encourage clients to use various tools because some employees will be perfectly happy sitting down and sharing their ideas with you, while others might be a little hesitant. The more you can ask them about their experiences and their needs, the more you’re going to learn, and you’re not guessing. They get a voice in it, and it becomes a very inclusive environment when employees have a voice in what’s going on.
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Maddy:?Mhm, so even just wanting to ask your employees is indicative of inclusivity.
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Darcy:?Yeah, it starts to build, especially when you do it on a lot of different topics. Every time you ask, you build a little more trust because you start to establish a little more inclusivity. It becomes a habit after a while, and pretty soon, inclusion is just like the fabric that’s running through the organization because you’re doing something as simple as asking them.
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Jennie:?I love that, I love that. In our workplaces at Nike, we would get a lot of consultants coming in, telling us how to make it really inclusive and accessible. But I think one of the most powerful things we did was gather a group that was willing to speak about all of their differences—abilities, physical, mental, cognitive, etc. They came in and talked to everyone responsible for the physical environments. Hearing those stories firsthand really made you realize the intent of what you’re trying to achieve at the end of the day and what matters.
For example, a woman who worked for me had a prosthesis, and she talked about how on rainy days, the transition of materials on the flooring could be really slippery for her. How important it was to have a walk-off mat at the entry. I used to think, as a previous architect designer, walk-off mats were so ugly. But she said she might be walking with a manager and suddenly be focusing on not slipping versus the conversation she was trying to have. It was consuming for her; she didn’t want to embarrass herself. Those personal anecdotes are so powerful for having empathy and understanding for people with differences, and how you can start to create environments that include them. The more you ask, listen, and try to understand, putting yourselves in their shoes, the better.
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Maddy:?Yeah, I think that word “empathy,” and I heard “trust” from Darcy, those are two things that I think are kind of at the core of DEIBA. That’s such a significant transition if you zoom out and look back over the last few decades. We’re starting to see more trust in employees, more empathy for the people we’re working with, and allowing people to be different.?
And then, Kadi, I know that you, as a college student, may not have the same kind of work experience, but I’m curious about your experience in school. What kinds of things have been inclusive, or maybe not so inclusive? What are the kinds of things that you’ve seen?
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Kadi Rae:?I mean, school's pretty good. Universities are pretty good about checking in with students, getting feedback, and asking what people need and how to accommodate that. For example, providing materials that are both written and have a visual component, allowing people to wear headphones during tests if they need sound rather than silence, having alternate spaces, and having study spaces that are open to everyone. You can come in, co-work, and get things done without necessarily having to do it alone.?
We call it “body doubling” when you help regulate each other. If someone gets off track for a second, there are always three or four other people who can help get them back on track. It helps having other people there sometimes, but sometimes you just need a little hole to crawl into to decompress for a bit. Hearing people’s voices and asking about their needs is definitely a part of it. It can be difficult because there can be so many voices, and everyone wants their particular thing. But the more knowledge people have about how our brains work and what keeps us motivated and focused or unfocused, is the most important thing.
The goes into the benefits of being neurodivergent, and why now workplaces are seeking out people who are neurodivergent. Neurodivergent people tend to have more bandwidth because our dopamine receptors, endorphins, our happy feeling chemicals tend to be dampened, so we have to do more just to feel good or okay. We have to. This can be great in the workplace because we can oscillate and work on what seems like 4-5 projects at once, taking turns between all of them to get them done. Whereas if there’s only one project, it might take forever to get done because it doesn’t hold enough stimulation to generate the endorphins we need to focus.
Then there’s hyperfocus or flow state, which is being talked about a lot now. Neurodivergent people tend to have a higher capacity to go into hyperfocus and can lose days working on projects. At PSU, we have the Interdisciplinary Neuroscience Association, where I’m now the president. We have a whole crew of engineers who do computer and civil engineering, and it’s interesting to see their layers. It feels like going down to a sub-basement where it’s dark and there are humming noises from all the machines. They’re all doing their own things but helping each other. They have a setup like Discord for chatting without breaking their computer focus. There are amazing ways to facilitate this, but having spaces where that’s okay is crucial. It’s about the culture that says it’s acceptable to have these kinds of environments in a workplace. So, I guess what we’re all saying is, yes, it’s okay and beneficial.
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Jennie: Yeah, and I love that. I kept trying to encourage our team to look at universities and colleges to see what they are doing because I think they offer so much more choice. You get to see how, when people are given that autonomy to find their pocket of where they work and they can move around, there are so many amazing examples there. The workplace has been much more homogeneous in the past, whereas universities have adapted a little bit better.
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Kadi Rae:?Yeah.
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Maddy:?Yeah, I think that’s a really interesting point because you think about the difference between a workspace and a college or a university. It’s about who’s paying whom, right? Students are able to advocate for themselves and their communities more so than people might feel they can at work. So, I think that’s a great point, that looking at universities might provide some innovative ideas.
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Jennie:?Well, in some ways, I often look at it as they’re almost being treated more like adults. They’re given tasks to do by a certain timeline and are told, “I don’t care where you do it or when you do it, but just go do it.” It’s very much based on outcomes. Whereas in the workplace, it’s still about whether you’re sitting in your seat, which implies you’re doing your work. People work so differently, and I think the workplace is great for certain populations, but for others, it needs to change a bit.
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Question 3: What are ways to integrate different work styles and preferences into workspace design?
Maddy: Yeah, well, another perfect segue. We’ve talked about a few of these things off the cuff, but what are some specific environments that you’ve seen that can accommodate opposite kinds of environments? What are some ways that you’ve seen different work styles and preferences integrated into workspace design?
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Jennie:?I’m a broken record about choice. [Laughter] I don’t know if there’s much more to say there; you can ask questions on that.
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Maddy:?Consistency!
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Jennie: Yeah, but I think at the end of the day, you need all of these opposites to exist. I really lean into sometimes saying that some of those environments might be best elsewhere. Some of them are perfect in the office, and others might be best at home. For example, some of that deep-focused work that people can perfectly set up at home—if they have the luxury of having their own space—was a really hard adjustment coming back into the office because it’s never going to be as good as your home workspace. So, it’s really about looking hard at what you want your physical office to do and how you facilitate those outcomes for the whole spectrum of people that are coming in.
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Maddy: Mhm.
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Jennie: Yeah, I know those aren’t specifics, but I think from a strategic standpoint, that’s how we look at it.
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Kadi Rae: Yeah, it seems like we’re aiming for better-than-home work environments. There are things you can get at work that you can’t get at home for incentivization. Like, I don’t have any space at home where I can just go and really be alone and be quiet, but you have that here. So, it is a matter of finding that balance.
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Maddy: ?I think that’s kind of, you know, people come from all different spaces, and so the office can function differently for different types of people, different types of brains.
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Darcy:?Well, and to your point about strategy, I think there are a lot of decisions you can make from a strategic perspective. Focus on the outcome of the work and not how they’re working, and allow that choice. I’m a broken record too, but allow the choice if you can. If you’re going to do a hybrid situation and you can build a space that accommodates many different work styles, but a particular employee has a project they can do better at home, have that flexibility. Ultimately, what you want are really great outcomes, and your outcome is not necessarily dictated by doing things the traditional way. So, if we can have that choice, have that flexibility, and focus on the outcomes, when you think about leadership in a strategic perspective, it will be a very different experience for employees who come in. Or, maybe they choose today to work from home.
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Jennie:?And I think, too, I want to speak for the other end because I think I over-index since I have two young kids at home, so I’m kind of like, “How do I have some flexibility to be at home?” There are other people in different life circumstances who want to come in more. They want mentorship, they want that feeling of connecting with their company, with the values of their company, and the leadership of their company. So, how do you get that connection to the company and what it stands for? You have to come in, you have to be in person. And how do you design those environments to feel really good and inclusive? So, at the beginning, you’re saying you get that hit of that feeling that makes you want to come back, and you can’t get that at home.
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Maddy:?Yeah, I think you’re referring to earlier when Kadi Rae mentioned incentivizing people to come back to the office. So, how do you both provide something that you can’t get at home and also support the options and choice?
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Kadi Rae: Yeah, like physiologically and neuronally, for incentive, we need something that’s new and something that’s familiar. That makes us want and need something. What we were talking about earlier is if at your workplace you have new things coming all the time, you have that kind of stimulation. Then having something familiar, like maybe your thing that you play with on your desk or whatever you look at, helps. But if you don't have that and it's more of a repetitious thing, then there has to be a way to facilitate that. So if you can have a place at work that can facilitate that, or you bring in your own thing, then that will bring people in. Light is a huge part of that because of our circadian rhythms. We wake up with light, but we’re also invigorated by light, and we can get exhausted by it. It depends on the frequencies also. The closer to daylight, the better for the morning, but after 12, it needs to start calming down generally.
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Jennie:?Yeah, and it’s an amazing time to be in this field. I find it infinitely fascinating. Speaking about lighting, there’s this company we were exploring a partnership with, and they’re looking at how lighting affects productivity, focus, and sleep. They’re literally tuning–everyone has their own individual lighting programs, and pro athletes are using it. It shows outcomes of better sleep, better focus at work, and it can just be a little lamp in your focus room. How cool is that? You can have your employees sleep better at home and be happier in the office just with this special lighting in your focus room.
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Maddy:?Mhm, mhm.
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Darcy:?Well, just for one second to go back to inclusivity and an inclusive culture, one of the really important things, I think, between what both of you said, is making sure that employees understand that we’re all different. The fact that Joanie didn’t come in today and worked from home versus Joe who wants to come into the office every day is because we are all different and we all have different reasons for doing that. For some of us, it’s because there are young kids at home and we want to get out of there. Or, I live in multi-generational home and I got a lot of people, and I need the office to focus. Some people, their workspace at home is perfect. It also includes educating your staff and getting everyone to recognize that we’re all individuals, we’re all unique, and we need different things, each of us.
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Closing Speaker Thoughts
Maddy:?Absolutely. I would love to keep talking about this for hours and hours, but that is not the situation we’re in. I’d love to give each of you an opportunity to give a final remark before we go into a little Q&A with our team. Kadi Rae, do you mind if I start with you? Closing thoughts.
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Kadi Rae: Yeah, it just feels like we barely started.
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Maddy: [Laughter] I know, I know.
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Kadi Rae:?But, I mean, what I am studying right now, specifically my thesis work, is on mental health management within the neurodiverse population. Depressive and anxiety disorders that are comorbid with neurodiversity are between 80% and 90% globally, so it is an issue. A lot of that is due to stigmatization and misinformation about the brain. People still believe that there are left-brained and right-brained people, or that there's like specific learning styles and everybody has to have one, instead of the fact that our brains need them all. All brains, neurotypical brains as well as neurodivergent brains.
So the fact that you guys are addressing this and that multiple agents are working towards just understanding how brains work and that they're all different regardless of whether they are neurotypical or neurodivergent. Everybody has their own different things. Just breaking down the stigma of needing to do things the traditional way, the way it has been done, the way it's supposed to be, even when it has caused problems. Depressive and anxiety disorders have risen significantly over the past 20 years, much of which is due to a grind-set mindset that aren't congealing with how our bodies and brains work. This leads to extreme rates of burnout, especially in tech industries, but also in many other fields.
Tech industries tend to have more neurodivergent people, but now it feels like it's opening up. Other workplaces are realizing that there are all these different benefits that come with being neurodivergent employees. But with those benefits, it comes with also understanding how your brain works and use that knowledge to work at your maximum capacity but also live at your maximum capacity, being happy and healthy.
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Maddy:?Feeling optimistic. The future is bright, or the future is dimmable. [Laughter]
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Jennie:?The future is as light as possible. [Laughter]
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Maddy:?How about you, Darcy? Closing thoughts?
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Darcy:?Yeah, I think I have to echo Kadi Rae to some extent. A lot of the reason I do this work is because I feel that if we look at everyone and realize they’re all unique, and recognize that I’m unique too, we all come to the table with unique ideas, experiences, perspectives, and ways our brains work. If we just approach people with an open mind and acknowledge their uniqueness without seeing it as a difference, I feel like the world becomes a better place—not just the work world, but the whole world.
That’s my passion for why I do the work I do. I’m so excited that we’re talking about this in particular because I think we could see the work world really change for the better. So everyone has the opportunity to really do something they love, feel successful, and thrive. It’s all about approaching everyone as an individual and seeing that uniqueness.
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Maddy:?It’s great.
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Jennie:?I love that. I think the only thing I would add is, going back to design and construction being slow, it’s a journey—a long journey. We often get really excited about these topics as designers at the beginning when we’re in the design phase, but we need to remember to carry that inquisitiveness, curiosity, and openness to thinking about how all bodies and minds are different. How do we continue that mindset throughout the entire duration of a project? To the audience today, that’s what I would push for. Because I think that we often think about it at one point, but it's really important to remember to carry this mindset throughout the entire life cycle. Even when you’re operating in a building, what choices do you make everyday to be more inclusive?
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Q&A Session
Maddy:?It’s great. Well, thank you all so much. I really appreciate you all being here. I’m going to turn it now to our team and see if anybody has any specific questions for any and all of our panelists.
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Ashley (Audience):?We talked a lot about how we take [employee] surveys and the design and construction journey is long. I’m curious, after the design and construction journey is done, how do we keep improving?
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Darcy:?A great question.
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Jennie:?I would love to see, in a dream world, a budget set aside for post-occupancy. A lot of things come up after you open, once people are in the space and trying things out. I wish there was a post-construction phase with a budget and a crew to alter spaces after six months of living in it. You try it out and then make adjustments. You can’t get everything right on day one. My big push is to have this new phase in the construction world.
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Darcy:?It definitely needs to be a phase in the project. The project doesn’t end when occupancy starts. There may be things that come up, especially if you consulted with your employees first. They might have given you ideas that, once implemented, after everyone is living in it they might go "well that wasn't quite right." How do we make those adjustments? Because at the end of the day, you’re doing this for your staff, and you want them to have that feeling of this is a great place to work. I think that phase is super important, and the budget in particular. It’s not just we're going to take a look at it, but also having the budget to make necessary changes.
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Ashleigh (Audience):?I was going to ask, I think we have hit on a lot of the great points regarding differences in cognition and how the space can support different levels of privacy, focus, and collaboration. I’d love to hear a little bit more, as Kadi Rae kind of touched on it, about how spaces can more support movement. Either circulation zones, spaces for movement, furniture for movement, the stimming, as well as the different movement needs people might have.
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Kadi Rae:?Yeah, a lot of that is just recognizing that people need to move around, specifically neurodivergent people, but probably everyone needs to move every 45 minutes to an hour. Everybody’s window is a little bit different, but I set my timer to do that because that’s about my rhythm, which seems to be pretty typical.
So as long as you’re making allowances for behavioral differences, like "I need to get up and take a walk" or "I need to get up and go to this room for a little bit." Recognizing that the day structure might look a little different. Just lenience as far as expectations go. Like sitting at a desk, we already know what it does to the back. We know what it does to the body, we know what it does when there's no abilities to take breaks to move. Raising endorphins, the fastest way, aside from just touch, is movement and exercise.
We actually talk about movement a lot at school because it makes a world of difference. Even just having a 10-minute break where everybody gets up and does a little something can have a huge impact.
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[Music, shots of closing event conversations] To learn more about NW Noggin's neuroscience initiatives and community outreach, view their website here .
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