“Every business has to think about purpose or else it's not going to be relevant.” – Tory Burch

Checkout this week's new episode of #NoLimits Podcast featuring fashion designer and philanthropist, Tory Burch:

On today's episode, the unlikely path that lead Tory Burch to create one of the most successful lifestyle and fashion brands in the world, the number one thing that drives her, and how she's empowering and enabling other entrepreneurs along the way.

RJ: Tory Burch, welcome to No Limits!

TB: Thank you. I'm so happy to finally be here.

RJ: I'm thrilled to have you here. You have been named one of the most powerful women in the world by Forbes. CEO and Chief Creative Officer of your own company, Tory Burch. Best-selling author, you recently launched the Tory sport line, plus your Foundation is working to empower female entrepreneurs -- your shirt says across it "ambitious."

TB: Yes, well we're launching our ambition whole concept and it's ambition 2.0. We started last year and it was a great success so we're super excited to continue the conversation.

RJ: Well I'm really looking forward to talking about that with you here. As a kid growing up in Valley Forge, were you ambitious?

TB: I think I was ambitious in many ways. I had three brothers so definitely in sports; we used to have massive competitions every weekend on the tennis court, and climbing trees and things like that. But in college I started a sorority with 10 friends and at University of Pennsylvania. And, you know, in just in different ways was always entrepreneurial. Even when I was working at jobs I had an entrepreneurial attitude and approach.

RJ: Was apparel retail was that always in your blood - something you thought of even as a kid?

TB: No not at all. I was a complete tomboy. Never put on a dress probably until my junior prom and so--

RJ: What did you want to be as a little kid?

TB: I wanted to be a professional tennis player or a psychiatrist. So I had different ambitions. I knew I wanted to be something and I always, always, always wanted to help people.

RJ: Did you ever pursue the psychiatrist route?

TB: No-- Yes in a very non-traditional way where I give advice to friends, that’s about it.

RJ: That's perfect. So, OK so you're at UPenn you're studying Art History. Were you doing internships at the time to get into the industry?

TB: Not so much. I really wasn't-- I loved art though so I always thought that I would go into the art world and so I freshman year I decided to become that major. And then senior year when I was graduating, I just sent a letter to a designer I admired, and he said I can have a job if I started the week after I graduated.

RJ: Wow.

TB: And that was the beginning of my fashion-- my entree into the fashion industry.

RJ: But that's pretty bold that you would send the letter. And it's pretty-- I would say unlikely that it would lead right? That must have been a great letter right?

TB: It was an OK letter -- it was a bit self-deprecating which I think he liked but he was -- it was crazy. I mean we went and the whole office was white. There were no desks. There were mats on the floor and he looked like Rasputin. And he was this incredible designer and total minimalist and he said that everyone copied him who is in fashion. It was definitely an education. And that's where I started and then my career took different paths from there.

RJ: How did you navigate that from there on? Was there -- one thing that I was thinking of when you were talking about going to UPenn, was there ever pressure to go to design school? Were people saying like 'you got to go to FIT or something like that?

TB: I never even thought about designing actually until I started this company. Which is only 13 and a half years ago.

RJ: Wow. So along the way you have this first opportunity because you're bold -- because you reached out and wrote a great letter, how did you navigate the other opportunities?

TB: So it just was -- it was very organic and you know the way I look at it and what I talk about the entrepreneurs today is that maybe each job is not the perfect job but you have to take something from it. And that's what I really tried to do is really look at each job in what it could offer and what I could learn from where I was. And so I met someone that was an editor -- she had visited him and then she offered me a job at Harper's Bazaar. And then I was really exposed to incredible fashion and photographers and I went on different shoots. And from there I went to Ralph Lauren and that everyone goes to Ralph Lauren at some point and it's a great training ground and I really learned about brand there.

RJ: But the point is a wonderful one that you're making, that every job doesn't have to be perfect. You just have to take something really good away from it. What did you have in place when you eventually did launch here in New York in 2004?

TB: Well I think that a lot of my jobs weren't that straightforward and easy. And certainly when I was at Ralph Lauren I learned a lot about different bran-- the idea of brand and what it meant, and protecting the concept of what the integrity of what you're starting. And when I was there Vera Wang was also there, and I had met her briefly. She had worked there before but they were friends. And when I left Ralph to go work with Vera, it was really a startup because she was trying to get rid of just being thought of as a bridal designer and really launch into ready to wear. So it was very entrepreneurial and she trusted me. I think I was 27 and she said why don't you build out advertising and public relations and really helped me build this concept. And I remember a call I made to American Express, and I don't know if you remember that commercial on Vera but that was the first time I ever pitched and it was a very cool idea.

RJ: I do remember that, I'm not just saying that I can picture it. It was the black and white.

TB: Yes totally! And she was wearing a trench coat and it was very impactful and it was very different.

RJ: OK so you clearly know how to get your foot in the door and hustle.

TB: The word hustle is funny because I think I do it in a different kind of way. Because when you think of traditional PR, I didn't go and I keep saying untraditional actually in this interview but it is true I think looking at things not inside a box and not out of the box either. I just think differently.

RJ: It reminds me of a conversation separate from this that I had with a tech entrepreneur who was basically saying-- his dad says anybody who's an expert in something is not what he wants on that thing. So like, coming at it from a different perspective…

TB: Well it's so true and I don't know. My dad used to say that as well and "Know what you don't know." And also "be a lifelong learner." When I hire people at our company, I want to see that intellectual curiosity and to never I said to my team yesterday 'I want the word habit to be erased from our vocabulary.'

RJ: That's, especially in this day and age you cannot do things the same day after day. We've seen through disruption, through new technology how bad that way of thinking is.

TB: Well you won't be relevant and your company won't exist. You have to be very agile and agility is something that we strive for every day. That said we don't want to lose who we are so we have to be an always evolved version of who we are.

RJ: So after the launch after the first store opened in New York, what was the biggest surprise?

TB: So well the very first day I think we sold through our entire inventory we did. It was a crazy day. We worked through the night. The doors hadn't arrived. It was in this downtown street in New York on Elizabeth Street. There was nothing there. And it was just a completely bizarre location. But the rent was basically for free.

RJ: If only that was true today.

TB: I know. Exactly. Now it's a bit different, but we invited press, out of town press, friends and family and we opened -- well, we didn't open the doors because they weren't there but we opened at 10:00 until 6:00 and at 6:00 o'clock we realized it was jam packed all day and it was almost as if we were giving things away because I think people-- what we tried and what I worked diligently on for a solid year, and I worked on the concept a lot longer-- was to give the best quality we could for the least for for as inexpensive as we could possibly make it. And that was what the customer really responded to. And I forgot to say also after after Ralph Lauren and I went to Vera but then I went to LVMH. But then one thing that I was faced with was I was offered to be president of Loewe. And I was pregnant with my third son. And I realized that I had to take time off to be a stay at home mom. So it was during that time, those four years when I concepted our company.

RJ: So were you at all worried when you're offered this big President position, turning it down?

TB: Yes, it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. And I had three babies under the age of four. And I know family for me is everything and I knew that I would not be a great President. But most importantly a great mom if I did both.

RJ: But obviously a tough decision given everything that you had already-- or was it a tough decision given everything?

TB: It was very tough because I really care about my career you know so for me I knew I always wanted to work. But that said, those four years that I took off I felt very fortunate to be at home with three babies. And then when I started the company I worked from home for two years so I was really home with them during their baby years. And that was that was lucky because not all women can do that. So I was able to do that. But with that in mind the whole time I was thinking about different ideas for companies. I was even thinking of launching a school at one point.

RJ: What kind of school?

TB: Well I had I had identical twin boys and I went through the school process in New York which is very frightening. And so I thought 'wow well there needs to be more schools.' So I was researching the idea of starting a charter school and starting this company at the same time.

RJ: My husband by the way is a twin.

TB: Oh? Identical?

RJ: Identical twin. He would say real twin because identical makes you real.

TB: I always say I feel sorry for my boys’ wives. They are so close. I've never seen anything like it.

RJ: My husband lived with his twin brother until he moved here to New York for us to be together. Yes. So I'll tell you all about it.

TB: And their mother lived through it.

RJ: Yes, she lived to tell the tale and all is well. So OK so you launched the company you have this surprise sell out basically on day one...

TB: So day one we had the surprise sell out we had to scramble and from the very beginning I opened up sourcing and production office in Hong Kong because I knew that I needed to get different price points.

RJ: That had to be one of the smartest choices you made.

TB: It was definitely different and people weren't really doing it that way and it was also different because it was a retail concept, but actually the most different part is that part of my business plan was to start a foundation for women. And that was why I wanted to start the company. It's amazing to see the sea change now of the importance of purpose and companies. Because back then I was told very concretely never to say the words business and social responsibility in the same sentence.

RJ: And why were people telling you that? Because it would scare away investors?

TB: Oh it would scare way investors and not only that it was like a little pat on your back like 'oh here's a little charity work.' I said no actually I see it very differently. I see it as very important to the bottom line. And it was so funny. The one of our earliest investors said that to me and I called him this December actually and I said you know Len I have to tell you, you know I remember our conversation so well and I just came from a conference from Fortune and Forbes saying that doing good is good for business. And I just want you to know that this is 14 years old. We've been talking about women's issues for 14 years. And he sent a very large check to our foundation.

RJ: Wonderful. I was also going to say in that vein-- before it was in vogue to be about helping females and female entrepreneurs, you were doing that. Even-- so the foundation, it took a couple of years before launch of the foundation.

TB: Well so I knew I had to build a successful company. So we started the company in 2004 that said, internally it was always part of the dialogue. And we always did things around helping people within the company even whether it was pay it forward or whatever charity an employee would support we would support in different ways we would have children in from a church-- we would constantly try to bring in things like that, but really what I learned is that the most thing that I could offer as I saw the challenges women faced in business and I faced some challenges and I really felt that I could help. And so in 2009, we launched our foundation for women entrepreneurs in the United States.

RJ: Where does that desire inside of you come from?

TB: You know ever since I was little my mom said she didn't know if I would turn like she thought I would go to the Peace Corps. And I actually really considered it. But I've always wanted to help people. I think because my parents had a revolving door of helping people. People are coming in and out of our house and people are down on their luck would just stay for-- come for a few nights and stay for six years.

RJ: That happened?

TB: And so it was a bit of a crazy household we would never know who would be at the dinner table and but it was really fun and and it was it showed us a lot of color and character in life.

RJ: And I think it also sounds like there's this underlying desire for purpose in your life too and that this was the purpose, I mean you loved clothing, you loved aesthetics, you loved art but there was another purpose that is really important to the whole thing.

TB: It was a very different driving force. It was that and creating a business and being independent. My mom always said to me you need to be independent. You need to be able to do anything you want to do and you can as long as you work hard and be prepared to thicken your skin.

RJ: Which, you have to have tough skin.

TB: Yes.

RJ: I bet. I mean--

TB: That was the best advice I ever received. It was from my mother and she said think of negativity as noise.

RJ: That is wonderful advice. So when you ultimately launched the foundation were there people actively saying don't do this?

TB: Actually it's interesting you say that-- I didn't want to talk about the foundation because I never wanted it to be perceived as marketing in any way. And I wanted it to have real impact and scale and so I would say the last four years we've had real impact and scale and that's been a very exciting journey with my team.

RJ: I'm thrilled to hear it. What is in your in your mind. What does real impact and scale look like?

TB: Well we have a partnership with Bank of America and that actually was a very interesting concept that I thought would be very easy to solve. They said 'we're going to give you 2 million dollars and you have to give it out in a few months to women entrepreneurs.' I said no problem and what I didn't realize it has to be at the right cycle of their business, when they need a loan, at the right terms. So we went down a litany of issues and so that was the problem we had to solve. And with Bank of America we solved that problem and we work with local lenders in each state and find the most inspiring entrepreneurs. And we're close to 40 million dollars and counting. We're averaging about a million dollars a month to women entrepreneurs.

RJ: The foundation is all about helping access to capital, and also advice and really being there as a support for female entrepreneurs. Given the fact that so many women entrepreneurs are not getting that funding we've talked here about the statistics before, and how few women actually get access to that capital. What do you say as the things that you learned along the way when going out and fund raising, what would you say is the number one thing that now that you've seen it from both sides that women should be doing to get that money?

TB: Well I think number one I talk a lot about confidence and the way that they have to be their best advocates. And when the whole embrace ambition came up, because when I first started the company for a very first article that was written on me it was in the New York Times and Jane Rosenthal who started the Tribeca Film Festival called me and she said 'great article but you shied away from the word ambition' and she was absolutely right. And it really struck me. And 13 years later I started on International Women's Day. I wanted to address that very harmful stereotype of ambition around women. And I think when you look at entrepreneurs you have to say you have to believe in what you're doing it has to be something that is different and meeting a need but you need to be your best advocate and you need to have the confidence to go for it. And be prepared to work hard.

RJ: Of course, absolutely, work really really hard. In this conversation about believing in yourself. We hear this all the time and I often think I totally-- I believe in myself but there are the days obviously where you have that doubt. Right?

TB: Of course, many days I've been through so many things. I mean I wish I could give you a list of do's and don'ts. But there isn't that list. I think it's personal. There are so many times you're doubting I remember my mom saying 'you're Tory Robinson' growing up 'you can do anything.' You know the thing is, you have to believe in what you're doing and if you -- I felt that I was missing something in the market and that was beautifully made clothing that didn't cost a fortune. And there was either the Gap or designer. So we were lucky we hit a white space in the market. But things are things are tough now and it's a saturated market in all fields. So you have to really be adding value to something and think differently and and then you have to be a great great seller of your vision.

RJ: Yeah you have to know your vision to sell your vision to and have that North Star.

TB: And be focused and short emails.

RJ: How long is a short email in your mind?

TB: I think one liners are a great thing and done with humor. But short email is like a paragraph. Not not over two.

RJ: How you feel about the 'hope you're well' line in an email.

TB: You know I think its fine. I think I'm guilty of that.

RJ: We had a guest here tell me, one of our guests on "No Limits" said never write 'Hope you're well' on an e-mail and I was like I think I write that in all of my emails.

TB: I know. What was her reasoning?

RJ: She said it's extra. Her point was just like get to the point.

TB: Get to the point. Okay well that's I don't mind 'Hope you're well.' But beyond that I do. I do mind. I promise you everyone is so busy. You know. Call anyone you want. And I totally believe in cold calls but respect their time.

RJ: Yup yup absolutely. So when your you've launched the foundation now we have here with us the hashtag embrace ambition movement.

TB Can I say one more thing before we go on we have an education program so we have…

RJ: Yeah.

TB: We have three pillars: we have we have supporting women through capital and that's that's a big one with Bank of America. Then we have an education program with Goldman Sachs and 10,000 small businesses which is like a mini business school that Babson wrote the curriculum. It's a free program where women apply and that's been I think 170 women have gone through our program. And 10,000 women have written business plans on toryburchfoundation.org. From our from our Web site.

RJ: 10,000 business plans.

TB: 10,000 business plans, and really getting traction.

RJ: Are you a believer by the way in you need a business plan to start a business?

TB: I like having a business plan for yes. I don't think you might. I think if you're going to be fundraising, yes you do. I think you need to show how you're going to see the five years the first five years turn out. And then we have our own internal fellowship program and that's where hundreds of applicants each year apply. We narrowed it down to 30. Then we narrowed down to 10 and they come to New York and we mentor them, we give them each a 10,000 grant towards their education and the winner gets a $100,000 grant towards their education and business.

RJ: That's awesome.

TB: So that's what I wanted to get in.

RJ: Where do we go and apply for this?

TB: It's just it just went live the applications, and the last year's winner was this incredible woman who is an oncologist that realized that toothpaste had dangerous chemicals in it. So she designed healthy toothpaste. And when a business reaches a million in revenues that's when we see that it has sustainability.

RJ: That woman should be our No Limits entrepreneur of the week. We feature an entrepreneur every week she should be one of our features.

TB: And then we have a chocolate bar company out of Maine. We have so many great entrepreneurs we could give you.

RJ: Fantastic. So you also have the bracelet now. All the proceeds from this bracelet?

TB: Embrace ambition. Yes. So all the 100 percent of the proceeds go directly towards the Foundation. And in one year we raised over 2 million dollars so that's a big number for us for a bracelet that costs $30 and 2 for $50 that's that's very exciting.

RJ: You seem like someone that just gets things done.

TB: No, I like to get things done. But what did you see our embrace ambition video?

RJ: Yes.

TB: So that reached 192 countries. So we believe that this is harmful stereotype needs to be addressed and and now we'll be doing our very first summit on April 24th and that's going to be very exciting and we're taking the idea of of challenging challenging stereotypes and bias in gender and race and, but really focusing obviously on women. But there's one, there's one part that I think will be interesting we're having Joe Kennedy speak with Kevin McCarthy. And I'm going to be interviewing them about what the idea of the perfect union is and what do women in politics face.

RJ: Yes. I think that's a really important topic especially in this moment. So you have made things happen over and over again. There is no doubt that this is a challenging time for all businesses. How especially in retail, if you were going to be getting in today. How different would you do things?

TB: Very differently. That said I launched e-commerce 14 years ago. And I think that was something that was very important. The landscape is changing, the customer is now in charge. So you have to think about retail differently. I still believe in retail. It's just a different kind of retail. And the word omni is sort of like ‘I hope you're well.’ It's very overused but really I think we have to as business leaders figure out what omni means and how do you make the customer experience as seamless as possible so content. I've been interested in original content for 11 years. We started the first online magazine or blog and we did that 11 years ago, I hired editors from InStyle and that turned into what is now known as a blog. And that was really amazing because we were featuring women and also other designers and people thought that was odd. But business today as you know is about change and I think that you have to just be open and and always forward looking and interested in evolution but never losing who you are in the DNA.

RJ: How different will all of this look in 10 years. Do you have a vision if you do. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

TB: I mean I, I'm looking at a company right now that takes DNA from cows and grows leather. So it's it's beyond your imagination. At some point we could grow a sneaker without seams and when you think take that further and think of the implications of the environment and cows and how you might not need cows for their skins it's obviously transformative.

RJ: Completely, you blew my mind with that answer. I was not expecting you to go there. Okay so when you look at the people who are coming out of design school right now.

RJ: What's the one thing that they could be doing better?

TB: Well I think there's some great people coming out of design school and I think even looking at materials that are sustainable and what they're doing with them. I think I always suggest that they're not really looking at the market. They're looking within and through their own experiences. And I think once you get referential then it's not as interesting in business.

RJ: What made you back when you were deciding whether it's going to be a brand or a school what made you ultimately go with I'm going to build the clothing brand.

TB: You know I just started to get very inspired, my parents were the inspiration. So I started working on boards, and I started doing these image books and then I started meeting with leaders that I admired and some of my mentors today. And I think you know I just that really just took on a life of its own and started to get more traction.

RJ: Nowadays you were talking about the reach of everything and social media is obviously a really key part of all of that. How do you think about it in your own personal life and the distinction between Tory Burch the human and Tory Burch the brand?

TB: I'm I think about it a lot and in fact social media is how we built our company. When we we've never advertised in a traditional way. So we used Twitter we were early adapters Instagram, Facebook, and really that was a direct dialogue to our customer. That said I wanted to always protect my privacy and and protect my children. So I have my own private Instagram which is for family and family shots. But I think it's a fine balance. And I am very happy to represent the company but I really need to protect my family as well. So it's really finding that balance.

RJ: Do you feel pressure. I certainly feel some level of pressure people will say well you have to post more about your personal life because that's what people want to see but that, I like you... Those are the things that are sacred to me that I want to protect.

TB: Yeah and I do hear that and I think it's an interesting time. I don't feel obligated to do it. And you know I think you have to make your Instagram inspiring and interesting. That said, there's different ways of doing that than than featuring your children. And it's more about that and my fiancé. I wouldn't you know for me it's like you need to separate and have a bit of privacy for yourself and I'm sure you feel that way as well.

RJ: Absolutely well I value it. Value like there are some things I just want to protect because in the same way that you when you began with the Foundation and people were giving you pressure, you didn't want it to be about marketing. It wasn't about selling. It was about this is what I'm doing because I care about this.

TB: Well it's interesting because social media is all about authenticity. And I think if it's if it works you have to be authentic.

RJ: How would you recommend women who are trying to get a message out as you have so successfully done and feel like they're not breaking through. What's one thing you would recommend women do differently?

TB: Well I don't know if it's women or men. I mean I think that anyone has to have a unique vision. And I think once someone has the unique vision people start to see that and people start to either like that and that's how it builds. But you always have to come from your your own your own mind your own, your own way. You have to find your own way and that's something that a lot of people really need to work on. And inspiration is the easy part it’s all over but you just have to take it as inspiration and really create your own vision.

RJ: How do you decide when an idea isn't working?

TB: Usually it's looking at the numbers and you try to move very quickly. That said, I always want to keep that entrepreneurial spirit in our business. But once we do try things and certainly many don't work we want to be very quick to move on. I'm not emotionally attached to things and I think that's…

RJ: Has that always been the case or?

TB: Pretty much, my mother finds it very funny. I mean I could feel I could live anywhere and be very happy. And I just I find things I'm really fascinated with business and that's I guess I love the creative but I really love the business. And if something's not working then I want to understand why.

RJ: What's the toughest lesson you've had to learn along the way?

TB: Well there's been so many. I think you know, it's it's challenging being a woman in business and even recently when talking about my comp and I said to them if I were a man you would never be addressing a comp situation like this and asking if they want more MIUs and less comp or more comp. And I just said just it's a very vivid difference. I remember going to a conference and being introduced as a female CEO and I got up and I just started laughing. I was like I have never in my life heard a man be introduced as a male CEO. That's constant.

RJ: When…I totally agree with that point. When does the conversation change?

TB: Well I think it's changing and the women's march I thought was a great start. That said, I think it's segmented and I think there are so many different things happening and it's like sensory overload but I think fundamentally women's issues are at the forefront. And women have to be great leaders like you and be role models. And I think that that's so important for us all to support each other. I don't I don't buy the phrase women don't support other women because that hasn't been my experience. And certainly I'm a girl’s girl. And I always have been that way and I think to to see other women succeed is inspiring. And that's what's going to change change things and it has to as half the population. I mean it's the fact that there's pay inequity is insane. It's it's 50 percent of the population. It's a human right. It's not really a favor.

RJ: What has been the worst advice along the way?

TB: Well I think you know I thought about that I saw that question I think it has to be “Don't say business and social responsibility in the same sentence.” And really I think that just made me more determined but I did get that advice a lot 14 years ago when I started the company.

RJ: And what is your advice to women and men who want to create businesses that in addition to making money are doing something impactful that they believe in?

TB: No I think actually every business has to think about purpose or else it's not going to be relevant. And that's something that I think is a change. And you know traditionally big corporations were very successful and then all of a sudden they would start their foundation. Now I see it happening from the beginning or at least it's starting to. It's just at the beginning stages.

RJ: Practically speaking how do you organize in a way where because ultimately you have to continue business?

RJ If there’s no if there's no profits, then there's nothing to go towards the other thing.

TB: You’re absolutely right. And I'm not saying to do that from the beginning but I think it should be part of the thought process and do it in a way that's authentic and what means something to you in the beginning we couldn’t start the foundation. It took us five years to build the company before we could.

RJ: But it was always there in the meetings and in the conversations and in the business plan.

TB: It was. I mean it wasn't always front and center of course it was about the business but you know in the back of my mind it was always there and it was always going to be a percentage of the sales in the end and it was it was always part of the thought process.

RJ: Tory Burch thank you so much for joining me.

TB: Thank you for what you're doing for women so important.

RJ: You too. Thank you. 

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