Episode 2: Regenerative Medicine and the Business of Healthcare with Chris Gandy

“If you ask a entrepreneurial type of physician, where's the opportunity to make medicine? It's not really on cutting on people anymore.” - Christopher Gandy LACP

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Episode Spotlight: Regenerative Medicine and Business

In this episode, we explore:

• Aligning regenerative medicine with healthcare via specialized treatments for out-of-pocket payers.
• Collaborations between physicians and entrepreneurs.
• The link between financial and physical health, based on Chris' 25 years in financial planning and athletics.

Chris Gandy shares his journey from athletics to entrepreneurship and discusses regenerative medicine's role in healthcare. Discover how it aligns with specialized treatments and the collaboration between physicians and entrepreneurs.?

Navigating the Transition From Professional Athlete to Business Leader

Welcome to another episode of Boombostic Health. I'm Bradley Bostic, and I'm thrilled to have my guest, Chris Gandy, here with me. Thanks for joining.

CHRIS: I'm super excited to be here.

BRADLEY: Chris and I share a passion for healthcare, and we're going to talk about regenerative medicine as sort of our main topic, which is a booming business, but also something that folks have firsthand experience with being extremely rewarding and valuable for their lives. Chris, I think you're one of those people, based on our conversation. So look forward to hearing more about that.

In addition to having been an NBA basketball player and basketball star, Chris has taken his talents into business and has built the Midwest Legacy Group, advising folks on how to live their best lives and that includes health. It also includes, of course, finances, they kind of go hand in hand.

CHRIS: They do. What we find is that those that are not aligned with health many of times aren't aligned with their finances. So they do go hand in hand, and you find out very quickly that, you know, the left pocket and the right pocket are not always aligned accordingly.

BRADLEY: Well said. How did you navigate from being in professional athletics to moving into your professional career?

CHRIS: Well, just like most athletes, they don't decide to stop playing. Typically, the game stops loving them, or there's an injury. Well, yeah, there was an injury. I wouldn't suggest that people Google this that are watching me and you, you know, unless they haven't had anything to eat for the last 24 hours. I had something called the terrible triad. Do you know what that is?

BRADLEY: I don't.

CHRIS: Okay. So, three ligaments one time, one move. It was a sweet move, but that move ended my professional career and launched me down the pipeline of trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up.

BRADLEY: Well, it seems like it's worked out. I think things happen the way they're supposed to. I suppose the injury probably led to you thinking long and hard. Also, about how do you maintain a level of health that would allow you to live a great life even beyond sports?

CHRIS: Absolutely. That was my first surgery, you know, throughout my entire adolescence. My body always worked for me. When I called on it, I could perform at the optimal level in college, professionally - and one day it just didn't. I went under the knife and I'd heard about guys getting ACL surgeries and coming back. The terrible triad is three at one time - and so ACL, PCL, MCL, gone, and my ACL. You're lying one way and your legs point another way, your foot's point another way. I remember my coach saying, get up and walk it off. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's not happening.

So that happened and you had to figure out what to do with your life. It launched me into trying to figure out I did not want to be the guy out playing with my kids in the backyard and not be able to walk. There's so many former players that their hips are bad, their knees are bad because of all the impact that goes along with playing sports. The average person doesn't see it. But we feel it and as you get older, that stops you, that stops your mobility, that stops your ability to flex and use some of the muscles that help you in your everyday life.?

So, I'm pretty active at trying to make sure that I keep those things going, not only through working out weekly, daily, but also doing some things that, quite frankly, most people wouldn't assume that a big 6'9 guy like myself could do.

BRADLEY: Yeah. Like yoga?

CHRIS: I do yoga. I do some yogalates, hot yoga. Those are always good.

BRADLEY: I did that recently. It was this intense yoga situation where there were weights involved and it was 105 degrees. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, it was harder than it sounds.

CHRIS: Yeah. You realize that the smallest person in the room is the strongest, right?

BRADLEY: Right. Oh, for sure.

CHRIS: There's a lady in our class that actually does three classes in a row. She stands on one toe and lifts all the weights and you're like, how did you do that? But it's just fascinating the small muscles and how to utilize those to help stabilize yourself and how you can function on a day-to-day basis. Really, it's about functionality at this point.

Personal Experience with Regenerative Medicine

BRADLEY: We focus on the business of healthcare here and you're obviously at an intersection of people's lives and business. A lot of your clients are in the medical profession and I think some of them are in this regenerative medicine boom that's taking place.

I would love to hear more about how you have gotten involved with regenerative medicine, both with your clients and personally, and any kind of insight or wisdom you can share on the business side of it. How are these folks that are doing it right doing things effectively? Maybe touch a bit on some of the bad actors, candidly, that are getting some press that don't necessarily follow the right kind of approach to decide who is a good candidate for this regenerative kind of medicine.

CHRIS: Right. Well, let's break it down. So the question is, how did I get from sports into regenerative medicine? So it's kind of interesting that physicians and people in the medical space are a lot like athletes and I can give you the reasons why. They work really hard. They make a lot of money. They have great lifestyles and they pay a bunch of tax. Right? At the end of the day, we try to figure out in our world how to help them create a game plan for life. By doing that, the physicians just, quite frankly, made sense. We understand the business of medicine is a billion dollar business.?

We are trying to help people figure out other ways to make money without cutting on people. We've got surgeons, anesthesiologists. We've got people that have been in Western medicine for a long period of time that are now saying that I can make three, four hundred thousand dollars and I have the most liability with making very little margins. You know, with Medicare and some of the social programs, the reimbursement is shrinking and that's pretty obvious. What's happening is private practices have been gobbled up by a lot of the bigger organizations and you're seeing that now. If you ask a entrepreneurial type of physician, where's the opportunity to make medicine? It's not really on cutting on people anymore.?

It’s figuring out how they can partake in some of the other revenue streams that come through medicine - and so regenerative medicine is where we've landed. A lot of regenerative medicine practices and or practices that have multiple income streams coming to them. That's kind of been a neat space for us to hang out in because I've been a patient. You can't recommend something without knowing if it works.?

I had an accident last year that severed a tendon in the top of my foot and they sewed it up. 12 weeks later, they said, okay, you're good to go and it just wasn't moving, my toe. The ligament on top of my toe was hurt because of an accident that happened. No, I wasn't break dancing! I was getting out of the shower and glass broke, severing the tendon, two tendons on the top of my toe. After they fixed it, my toes were just flat, you can move your toes up and down. I couldn't move them up and down.?

I went out to see one of my regenerative medicine docs, he says, oh, I got some things for you. I said, oh, really? He figured out how to shoot some things in my foot that were more on the regenerative side. Before that, I was not running, I was walking, but with a little bit of a gimp. Within a week, I was running sprints again.?

BRADLEY: That's fascinating.

CHRIS: It was tough to get to because there's not a lot of ligaments. There's not a lot of fat on the top of your foot. So he gave me a towel and says, bite this. This is not going to feel great. He goes, but it will work -and sure enough, it worked.?

I would recommend the regenerative medicine outlook when you're getting ligaments redone. How do you get back to the game a lot faster and the game of life, walking, running, working out, the things that keep us alive.

BRADLEY: Especially as you age, the worst thing you can do is stay idle and let your body atrophy.? You get an injury and you can't break out of that.

You talk about Western medicine, which I think everybody understands means more sort of after the fact, reactive, sick care. Basically using medications, using surgeries. When you say regenerative medicine, just for our viewers, could you define really, what does that encompass? How is that different from Western medicine?

CHRIS: Well, from my understanding, because I'm not a regenerative medicine professional, it’s the idea of letting the body heal itself. So many of the things like peptides and stem cells, are things that actually are already in our body - or have been in our body for a period of time. But as we age, it starts to get lower and lower and lower, similar to testosterone levels.

Recently, I was having this conversation with someone about TRT, testosterone replacement therapy. I was just curious. They say when you turn 50, a couple of things you should do is get a colonoscopy, check it out, make sure there's no problems. So I did that one, check, boom, felt good about that. Which is a whole other conversation because most men say, you know, I'm not going to do it.

BRADLEY: My mom died of colon cancer at 56 years old. So yeah, colonoscopies are a really good idea. Easy way to save your life.

CHRIS: I went and did it. I was scared because of all the stigma and whatnot, but didn't know what to expect. But it plays really well. As an African-American male, it plays really well. That is a perpetual thing that happens in the minority community that quite frankly, there's a higher incidence of it. Then they said to test your man goods. I said, “What's that?” They said, “Oh, your testosterone.” I said, “OK, great. Oh, mine's good.” You know, I work out five days a week. I'm a recovering athlete now, but in my head I can still do it. I do boxing now. So that's kind of fun, you know.

So, I tested. People can look this up, but the average age for my average age, I'm 50 years old. They said my numbers should be somewhere between 400 and 500, my numbers. We were young, you know, we were 1,200, you know, a little more agile and mobile. My number was right at 453. But there's also, people don't know, is your free testosterone too. That number ranges from 1 all the way up to 9 or 10 and my number was right around 3.?

From my understanding, that's the testosterone that you can actually use that floats through your blood. When you activate it, your ability to be at your best on command, you can use it. They started me on, at 50 years old, the idea of enhancing my testosterone level. So that's, it's been an interesting project to kind of see and understand what that means. But I feel good. I feel like I'm not as lethargic and tired as I was before.?

You know, we get to a stage where you're just not as sharp as you were, not as motivated as you were. As athletes, you're always trying to tap into that piece of your brain that allows you to get back to where when people were calling your name, when they come out, popcorn popping, how do I relive the glory days, right?

BRADLEY: So, how long was it before you felt different after you started doing this TRT?

CHRIS: Probably four weeks.?

BRADLEY: And this is not something that insurance pays for?

CHRIS: Absolutely not.

BRADLEY: Okay.

CHRIS: No. I mean, insurance does pay for it if it gets what they call critically low. So in my fifties, they told me for insurance to pay for it, it would have had to be in the twenties. It had to be in the two hundreds or lower. That's a significant drop off from even where I was.

BRADLEY: Basically saying your body is deficient to a level of like having a health risk versus more of the feeling good. Is that right?

CHRIS: Yes, feeling good. 've noticed that since I've started taking it, I'm sleeping like a baby. I go to sleep at nine 30, wake up at five, five, four 45, like clockwork and I'm ready to go. It doesn't take as long to get going.?

But the biggest thing I noticed is after eating. You don't have as much of a downside after eating, right? You're not tired right away. So it's, it's taken a little bit of time, but I can definitely feel the difference. That's on the regenerative side, being proactive versus reactive. Packing before you go on vacation versus waiting until you get there to pack.

Exploring the Business of Regenerative Medicine

BRADLEY: Right. So, it's a booming business thinking about the health, the business, the healthcare, the space of. It's all cash paid, right?

CHRIS: Mostly cash.

BRADLEY: You said some exceptions where maybe you had, I don't know, cancer treatment and it destroyed some of your glands or something. So you can't produce testosterone, Basically, it's medicine for people who can afford to be proactive to that level. Is that fair?

CHRIS: Yeah. Okay. Definitely.

BRADLEY: The people that you see in that business, are they typically folks who were already doctors? Then they decided this was a way that they could, as you said, make an impact on patients' lives without cutting or doing the traditional kinds of medications? Or are you seeing people who are entrepreneurs that come from different backgrounds that aren't doctors already that are doing this kind of, you know, running these businesses?

CHRIS: Right. So, from my understanding, some of the practices that we've been involved in the setup is that a physician, because of the ability to prescribe medication, has to be on record as part of a majority owner or a partial owner of the company.

So then you've seen other people that understand the business of medicine getting involved with the doctor, but a lot of it's nurse practitioners, a lot of it's other healthcare professionals around medicine. The one that I mentioned earlier, you know, he's a physician, he's been a practicing internal medicine physician for years.?

Another one I worked very closely with is a very prominent orthopedic surgeon out of Atlanta. Okay. He's done some amazing things in the regenerative space as it deals with getting athletes back on the field. Getting them back where they need to be to be successful.?

BRADLEY: Does that include stem cell?

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. So some stem cell treatments, but the idea of other types of treatments that go along with it like PRP and some other treatments. You've got red light therapy. You've got a bunch of different things that go along with that, getting the IVs done for hydration.

BRADLEY: Okay. Interesting.?

CHRIS: What they call it is the superhuman protocol. Who doesn't want to be superhuman? Right? That's the best part about it.

BRADLEY: Sounds pretty good. So, if you zoom out into this world, though, of what I would consider broadly functional medicine, where there are different supplements and things that you also would take, like, is that part of the kinds of docs that you, or regenerative programs that you're familiar with that you see being built, do they include an assessment of your overall blood testing and microbiome and looking at the entire system?

CHRIS: Yeah. Yeah. So the best part about going is finding a physician or finding a physician-oriented practice because they've been to the other side and back, right? I love that idea because they actually can see the effects of what medication can do.

I'll give you an example. When I turned 44 years old, they diagnosed me with high blood pressure and never have had it before. The doctors said, “You can't fight heredity.” And I'm like, “Really? Let's see. I work out all the time. I play basketball. What's the story here?” And they said, “Well, here, take this medication.” I said, “I don't want to be on medication the rest of my life.” So I bet my doctor I can get off of this medication within 12 months. He's like, “No, no, no, that's not going to happen.”

Literally, within 12 months, I changed it.? Completely changed the way I eat, completely changed the way I work out, completely any, there's nothing that I bought that was outside of a home. I changed everything, took salt completely out of my diet, double-dosed the water. I did all the things. My blood pressure dropped from what they call borderline hypertension to hypotensive, which is too low. Yeah. He's like, what are you doing? How did you do that? Yeah. And I said, I told you, I wouldn't be taking this medication.

BRADLEY: Right. So. Well, you were one of the individuals who was willing to make changes to your daily routine in order to drive that change versus most people or many people don't, for one, know that those changes can have such a dramatic effect and two, maybe who don't have the discipline to do it.

CHRIS: Right. Right. Right. Well, being an athlete did help. But, but we all know that at the end of the day, we want to be here for our kids. Right? And if you just think about it selflessly, we want to be here to make their lives a little bit better. And we're probably not ready to go when it's our time. Right? And so if anything, we can do to elongate our lives, make it a better place for, and be able to experience those things for our kids and make the world a little bit of better place with less people on medication. It's kind of a good thing.

The Intersection of Sports, Business, and Healthcare

BRADLEY: Right. Absolutely. Well, that's fascinating. And I appreciate your candor also about the things you have firsthand experience. So shifting to a completely other side of healthcare that you've had experience with, and I think it's probably somewhat relates to you having been an athlete, is concussions.

CHRIS: Yeah.

BRADLEY: You hear a lot about it in football. I think actually though there are even more concussions in other sports, maybe it's not as publicized. I think soccer has a lot. But what is your experience in that world? What has been done with the program you've been part of to try to deal with concussions as an aspect of sports?

CHRIS: You’ve probably heard of Chris Nowitzki, who is a part of the concussion protocol and concussion bank. He testified in front of Congress, former NFL, WWE star, you know, he's everywhere. He launched a concussion awareness program that went nationwide, and there happens to be a chapter here in Chicago.

I was heavily involved in that one because it takes a village to raise kids. And why wouldn't we want to make the sports better for our kids? Right? That's number one. Number two is the more and more I thought about it, my son kept tapping me on the shoulder about playing football. He played football from the time he was a little guy until and played all the way through college. I remember the idea of him going out there and as a parent, not knowing how to help him.

You know, that challenged me in a way where I said I at least want to be educated so that I can empower him to make some decisions. Because when it's time to go back in the game, they tap him on the shoulder and if he doesn't feel right, he's not going to have the courage to say to his coach, I'm not going back in.

BRADLEY: Right.?

CHRIS: You probably had when you were growing up. Have you played football or anything? I remember. They had what they call stingers.

BRADLEY: I played through college. I remember in high school, one of my best friends had caught a pass for a touchdown and got lit up by the defender. He came over to the sidelines and had this kind of glassy look in his eyes and really wasn't interactive. Went in at halftime, came back out, played the whole second half and didn't remember any of it. Back then it wasn't understood how problematic that is.

CHRIS: And so now, you know, CTE is a real thing. Obviously, it's been tested. They found it in people that have passed away with head injuries, specifically a lot of football players. But one of the most dangerous sports is actually women's soccer. They're hitting their head with a ball but it's more pronounced because of the game of football. So we see it a lot.

BRADLEY: You see the violent collisions in football.

CHRIS: It's a gladiator sport. People love watching it. It's entertaining. What you don't see is I've had concussions numerous times from playing in the Big 10. Playing against guys that are seven foot and getting an elbow and literally getting knocked out on your feet.

BRADLEY: Right.

And you know what? You don't want to lose playing time. You know what you say? You say, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm good. I'm going. I'm going back. Right? You may not remember the play, but you're going back.

BRADLEY: No, I'm with you. So one of the things that you focused on is the protocols to help to minimize the brain injury impact by making sure there's screening and education. I've read about and seen some of the new helmet technology that comes out every year in the NFL and the NCAA. Is that an aspect of the concussion? I'm thinking also about where are the businesses and innovations that are happening to try to address this issue?

CHRIS: Right. One of the big things that's going on is the timeline and the protocol for going back to play.

BRADLEY: Okay.

CHRIS: Right. Before it was a week or it was a couple of days, depending on what kind of protocol there was. Well, now they're seeing that those protocols are short. So someone with what they call a mild concussion all the way up to a severe concussion. It keeps coming back because perhaps you went back too soon.

BRADLEY: Right.

CHRIS: But there's ranges of anywhere in between that so you're seeing a lot of changes. But they'll do red light therapy now on the head and that will heal the brain and reduce inflammation. So they're doing some things like that. That's one thing that I've seen work. Also, they're doing some different stimulations to the brain also to help it heal. So there's a lot. There's a lot.

BRADLEY: So there's some sports medicine that's happening to actually help you get back safely more quickly than if you just rest.

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. When people rest, they recommend things that don't create rapid eye movement. Most people don't realize what the rapid eye movement is. When watching TV, they say not to completely sit in the dark. And so you think about think about kids and think about people, they're like, OK, I'm bored. I'm just laying here. Right. It's like, no, now they're swiping through. Now they're on social or whatever. And it's really lighting up these areas of their brain that just need to rest,

BRADLEY: Yes, need to rest.

CHRIS: I would just simply tell people that they have to take a different approach to what we thought. You know, what they thought regenerative medicine was before and what they thought about getting better. They have to just take a holistic approach to it and say, you know, how do I how do I become a better version of myself? Not today or a week from now, getting back to play. But how do I become the best version of myself from a health perspective for the future?

BRADLEY: Right. Right. Because there's a long journey ahead. Well, it sounds like you've built an amazing program at Midwest Legacy that allows your clients to be healthy, both financially and physically. So congratulations on that. If folks wanted to find you, where would they go?

CHRIS: They could go to the website at MidwestLegacyGroupLLC.com. Or you can find us on socials under Legacy Wealth. We're out there!

BRADLEY: And you have a podcast.

CHRIS: We do and I'm part of the association. I believe in giving back to everybody who's in the financial services industry so I'm heavily involved in our association.?

I host one of those podcasts that's on Apple Music and a couple other places you can find it called Advisor Today. It interviews the top innovative advisors around the country. Puts them on a platform to make the world a better place for people living out their lives and finding financial literacy.

BRADLEY: OK, that's awesome. Well, thanks a lot, Chris. I appreciate it!

The Verdict: Legal and Regulatory Insights

Now we're transitioning to the verdict with Emily to talk through the legal and regulatory implications of regenerative medicine and other aspects of the conversation we have with Chris.

It was great to have our guest, Chris Gandy, former NBA player, basketball star, who's turned into a czar on how to live a great life and connecting the dots between health and financial success.

We talked a lot about this longevity idea and regenerative medicine. There's a huge boom in this.?

Back in the studio here, I've got our resident legal and regulatory expert, Emily, for the verdict with Emily to talk about what is the right way to get into business on this regenerative boom? Because it sounds like Chris is dealing with a lot of people who are doing it the right way as his clients and also his caregivers. But I think there are some people out there that maybe aren't doing it the right way. What should you do to make sure that you're set up for success and you're compliant if you're getting into regenerative medicine?

EMILY: Yeah, it's a good question. So, there are a lot of folks who are not doing it the right way. It's a bit of the wild, wild west out there. What's interesting about regenerative medicine is it typically falls out of the usual federal framework for health care rules and regulations. So, you don't necessarily have all of the constraints that you do under the Stark Law and the anti-kickback statute, but you're still subject to those state considerations.

Where I see clients get it wrong is, like Chris talked about, you have to have a physician who is overseeing everything. In the TRT space, we see a lot of folks only working with pharmacists, right? Does the pharmacist actually have the license and the scope of practice ability in their state to perform these services? I think that's one of the gating issues, is it set up correctly from a licensure perspective?

Chris even touched on ownership, right? A lot of states have what's known as corporate practice of medicine considerations. So, who can even own these clinics?

BRADLEY: You have to be a doctor or you have to have a medical degree?

EMILY: Some sort of licensed professional, it varies by state.

BRADLEY: Maybe in some states you can be a nurse practitioner, and if you have the credentials to prescribe, you could own one of these?

EMILY: It's not even going to be the credentials to prescribe. I mean, I guess, yes, you'd be a registered professional in that capacity, but who can own it is going to be driven by the business regulations and the statutes in that state. It's going to be specifically tailored to what type of clinic this is, right? It is going to vary based on the clinics and the states.

The other issue that we see come up a lot, and I have a client dealing with this right now, is there's a pharmacy component to it. When you're talking about prescription for TRT and other regenerative type prescriptions, where are these medications coming from? In the pharmacy world, for those who don't know, it is highly regulated. There are serious and significant ramifications for not getting distribution of pharmaceutical medications, devices, et cetera, correct.

The states regulate the prescription medicine. They also regulate dispensing devices so you have to look at each state in which you're operating and in each state in which the patient is located. Oftentimes, if as an entity, are receiving medication and redistributing it. Even though it seems silly from a business perspective, I'm just receiving something and sending it back out. I'm not actually doing anything to it. That can still be considered reshipping, and you have registration requirements with the Board of Pharmacy.

BRADLEY: OK. So, if you want to be in regenerative medicine, you have to understand the state regulatory environment and the federal regulations and laws. Then you also need to ensure that the healthcare professionals or these regenerative experts have the right level of credentials to do the work.

What's the worst, in just layman's terms, what's the worst offender that you can think of who is in regenerative medicine that looks like they're legit, but if I'm actually looking to be a patient, potentially, what questions do I want to ask to see, like, is this actually a real kind of outfit I'd want to have them help me with this?

EMILY: Yeah. It is a great question. I think it's really hard for a patient to know, but certainly ask their qualifications. You can ask for their business plan, and you can vet it past your primary care provider. Those folks should have a better understanding of what might be legitimate versus illegitimate.

BRADLEY: That seems like a good idea, especially if the primary care provider is more progressive, because there certainly are primary care providers who really aren't interested in anything other than just the standard status quo.

For me personally, I buy into functional medicine and have felt fantastic since I've gotten more proactive about testing and ensuring that I've got all the kinds of supplements that I need. I think in this case, it's really going to that ultimate extreme of what are all the things that you can do.

In my world, I am not injecting anything or doing anything from a treatment perspective. But hearing from Chris, it sounds like the TRT has worked out great for him and I think that it's worked out well for others.

Also, I've seen recent articles that describe more of the horror story side, where somebody doesn't actually really need that, and then they get it and it creates mood issues. Clearly, there's a right way and a wrong way, and not all regenerative medicine is created equal.

EMILY: Yes. So it is, to that point, especially important to consult with your primary care physician. If you have specific issues that are wrong with your cardiology, dialysis, things like that, you don't want to be taking any of those types of medications without consulting those specialists.

BRADLEY: Okay. So, if you're an entrepreneur, make sure that you are checking all these boxes and have the right guidance, because you probably could go to jail if you did it wrong. Is that fair?

EMILY: Absolutely.

BRADLEY: Alright. So there are all kinds of options out there. Also, great to hear the perspective on what's the right way to do it and what are the warning signs that you should look out for. Thanks so much for being here as our resident legal expert. And thanks, everybody, for joining us for The Verdict with Emily.

Well, thanks again for being here for another episode of Boombostic Health. It was fantastic to have our guest, Chris Gandy, on to talk about the intersection of sports and business and healthcare.

It was also great to have Emily here with us to talk through some of the legal and regulatory considerations of the booming regenerative health space.

I'll see you next time, when we'll have more fantastic guests on Boombostic Health.

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