An epic two decades remembered...

Suzanka (interviewer): Well, today, I’m delighted to invite my dear and beloved friend, Rich, along…

Rich (interviewee): Thanks a lot! Really happy to be here.

Suzanka: Only around two months now, ‘til you leave Japan, right?

Rich: Yep. I'm due to leave for Germany on April 2nd, and we’re coming up to the final phase now… so I find more and more memories of my time in Japan coming out. So I’d really like to take this chance to talk about some of the many things that happened here.

Suzanka: Right. And you’ve actually been here for 18 - or is it 19 years?

Rich: I came here in 2002.

Suzanka: Well then, I’d like to talk about it all a bit while looking back.

Rich: Let’s do that ??

Suzanka: I’m drinking sake - and you?

Rich: Yuzu-shu (yuzu liqueur), not tea for once!

Suzanka: Cheers!

Rich: Yes, a rare sight. For once, I’m drinking alcohol not tea, even though it’s lunchtime.

Suzanka: From lunchtime, right?

Rich: Cheers!

Suzanka: First of all, Rich, how do you feel with about two months left to go?

Rich: The word that comes to mind for me in English is ‘reflective’. I’ve done so much since coming to Japan. I had no Japanese whatsoever on arriving here. Nor any friends or acquaintances. So when I think that it all started from zero here in every sense, it leaves me feeling particularly satisfied. Having said that, of course there were hard times and many ups and downs.

Suzanka: Many ups and downs right?! [chuckles - literally ‘Many mountains and valleys’]

Rich: Yes, correct, many ups and downs. But all things considered, I’m happy with it. In fact I am proud of it. Japanese people can’t really say that but I can.

Suzanka: I'd like to talk about the good and not-so-good times later, but just to confirm, you came 18 or 19 years ago, in 2002, and when exactly?

Rich: Well it will be 19 years in April.

Suzanka: 19 years. I’m wondering then what it was like for you right back at the start in 2002?

Rich: Well first of all, I did a podcast the other day explaining this, which was a bit long, but I spent the first six months in Japan in Aichi Prefecture.

Suzanka: In Aichi.

Rich: Giving the detailed answer gets a bit long, so I tend to tell people ‘Tokyo’, but I actually was in Aichi at first.

Suzanka: Aichi.

Rich: My first six months were in Aichi prefecture. You may wonder why…

Suzanka: I’ve not been there.

Rich: Yes, for some reason I thought I could learn Japanese better in the countryside than in Tokyo or Osaka. I was convinced that the way forward was to immerse myself into a place - a world - without any English, but when I actually did so, it was far harder than I thought, and I ended up drowning.

Suzanka: What did you do in Aichi?

Rich: I was an English conversation teacher for six months.

Suzanka: So English conversation to start with.

Rich: Well, the first step in Japan, I had to do this English conversation gig to get a visa and a foot in the door… it wasn't that much fun, but coming to Japan was the most important thing. As for the living in the countryside aspect, well I grew up in the countryside in England too.

Suzanka: Back in the UK, right?

Rich: Yes, but I always wanted the opposite. So when I came to Japan, the only thing on my mind was the capital city, Tokyo. So it was a bit of a lonely time … without any language and not much money, it wasn’t really possible to enjoy my life in Japan properly at that time. Having said that, it was precisely this hardship which toughened me up even more. I think I'm honestly a resilient person to start with, but this demanding experience also taught me a lot.

Suzanka: What were the people around you like at that time?

Rich: My boss at the time was the head of the English conversation school and I still keep in touch with her sometimes. Her name was Hiromi, and she was also teaching English there. Part of my job involved going to a kindergarten once a week to teach. That will make you laugh, right? Totally not me, you can’t imagine me doing that kind of job.

Suzanka: [laughs] Yes, Rich, you don’t really give off those teacher vibes…

Rich: Especially when it comes to acting up to entertain little kids, singing A B C and so on, like a clown, that’s completely alien to me. I think I can (and I did) handle the adults fine, but clowning around in the way the kids expected was impossible.

Suzanka: No chance.

Rich: I almost felt like throwing up sometimes, it was so physically hard, but I somehow gritted my teeth and got through it. And actually, the boss noticed that I was giving it my all and holding out. So the boss knew the job wasn’t something that suited me at all, but she knew I was doing my best anyway, so she gave me some respect for that. Eventually she said: ‘Well, if you want to move to Tokyo, I will drive you there.’

Suzanka: She really said that?

Rich: Yep - so she actually really did drive me and all my things to Tokyo by car, it took about six hours.

Suzanka: Your boss really understood you, didn’t she?

Rich: Absolutely.

Suzanka: Your dream, it really was a dream, wasn’t it?

Rich: Faced with such a tough job, I think most teachers would have said after a month or so ‘I’ve had enough. I’m gonna bail.’ They would quit a lifestyle they weren’t enjoying. But even though I felt the same way, I stuck at it.

Suzanka: You gave it your best. It was actually always a dream of yours to go to Tokyo, Rich, wasn’t it, since you were a little boy -- let's talk about that for a minute.

Rich: That's right. I grew up in the country. A small English town (Tavistock), which must have looked idyllic to outsiders. Only 11,000 people, greenery everywhere, full of old buildings dating back to Roman times. Most of the buildings were probably still around 200 or 300 years ago, the town hall included.

Suzanka: I want to check it out!

Rich: It is like the picture-postcard perfect image of England that Americans in particular love and really lovely from an adult’s perspective, but as a child, I was bored. I was fed up of incidents like going to the post office and having them say things like: ‘Your mum came in this morning. You ate a lot of sweets, didn’t you?’ and things like that. Well, you know me don’t you. I needed to get away from that narrow-minded world.

Suzanka: So you wanted to go to the city.

Rich: Yes. Well, of course if you want big cities, there is London, but London is still my own country, whereas Tokyo, on the other side of the world, was the ultimate big city, so that was the dream. I'm jumping ahead in the story a bit here, but I was 16 years old, then living in Sheffield, in the north of England, and I happened to watch a BBC TV show by chance at 3am because I couldn’t sleep.

Suzanka: TV?

Rich: Yes. It was an educational TV series - embarrassed to say this, but it was 30 years ago, before the days of Facebook and even the Internet. You may not be able to imagine a time like that, but it was a thing, I'm old enough to remember it. So I turned on the TV that morning and happened to catch a program called ‘Japanese Language and People. When I saw the program, it was showing Japan at the tail end of the bubble economy and it was bewitching. Beautiful places like Itsukushima Shrine in Hiroshima, the skyscrapers of West Shinjuku in Tokyo, the tradition and technology, I suppose it was like love at first sight. I resolved that come what may, I had to go there and see it for myself someday. And you know how strong my personality is, so I was definitely going to make it happen.

Suzanka: If you have a dream, you’ll make it happen…

Rich: Yes, I resolved to make that dream come true, no matter what. It took me a while, but I eventually got there. Well it started at the age of 23 and I actually went to Singapore first, I spent five years living there after graduating.

Suzanka: So Singapore was the first stop.

Rich: Sorry, I’m jumping all over the place here. Yes, Singapore was a place where you could still speak English everywhere…

Suzanka: Yes, it’s one of those places that feels a bit British, isn’t it?

Rich: It was a British colony and British until about 1965, so they do things like drink tea and play cricket.

Suzanka: You love tea, don’t you? Tea lover.

Rich: I bleed tea!

Suzanka: Yeah, tea flows through your veins, not blood ??

Rich: Yes. So I can't donate blood - there would be too much tea in it!

Suzanka: And some sake, too, right?!

Rich: But you’re absolutely right, I am addicted to tea.

Suzanka: Yes, hooked on it!

Rich: So anyway, I spent five years in Singapore. I did a bit of journalism, writing articles and I taught English and French, but Singapore is small. It's the same size as Awaji Island.

Suzanka: As small as that?

Rich: Yes, not that many people realize but it’s actually like Awaji Island, you can basically go anywhere within 30 minutes. So 5 years there was enough - the time had come for Japan.

Suzanka: Yes, more or less, it was time.

Rich: It was.

Suzanka: Time to move on…

Rich: Absolutely.

Suzanka: So it was time for your next step.

Rich: So I decided to make that dream come true and came to Japan when I was 27 years old.

Suzanka: So first of all, you went to Aichi Prefecture and stayed about half a year there, but then you decided you had to move to Tokyo, the place you’d dreamed about.

Rich: Yes. I really felt Tokyo was calling me and telling me it was time to go.

Suzanka: And you got the boss to drive you there!

Rich: Yes, right. Thanks to the boss, I was driven there. And I was living with my then girlfriend, now wife, together in Kichijoji. Actually, I also spent a short time in Setagaya but most of my time in Tokyo was in Kichijoji, which is, after all, one of the nicest parts of the city.

Suzanka: When you first went to Tokyo, I am sure a whole load of things happened in the first one or two months. What was your first impression?

Rich: I was really happy to have made it there, but as you know, you can’t really enjoy Tokyo without any money and it took time to sort things out. But at 27, I felt at the peak of my powers and the world at my feet. I was ready to explode and make my presence felt in the city explosively… all I lacked was the Japanese language, so I fell back on editing and correction work at the time, correcting grammar, but finding clients still took time. So what I did was, as I think I mentioned before, I looked through the Town Pages - a directory like the Yellow Pages, which everyone gets, and contacted every single translation agency in the country. Every single one.

Suzanka: That is absolutely you isn’t it - go straight to it. When you decide to do something - bang - you do it.

Rich: Even for clients without an email address listed, I found a fax number instead and faxed my details. I really let a few hundred companies know who I was and that I could do this job.

Suzanka: Like translation work? How did it go?

Rich: Yes, there was translation work.

Suzanka: Like translation, editing and so on?

Rich: I studied French and German at university, so translating those two into English was no problem. But I wasn’t yet quite ready to translate Japanese into English. Having said that, as you know, the English written by Japanese people tends to be quite low level…

Suzanka: So you corrected that?

Rich: That's right. The core of my work then was beautifying English. Six months down the line, I had more customers and another year later, I was finally able to live the life I wanted.

Suzanka: So you were worked hard and earning well at the same time?

Rich: I was freelancing and work came in by the bucketload - basically the more I worked, the more I made. I have to admit, I didn’t have the wide network of friends and acquaintances I now have, but I did end up working all the time, made big money and enjoyed all the things you can imagine in a big city with money.

Suzanka: So the question is, what exactly was that?

Rich: Well, for example…

Suzanka: Yes, spill the beans.

Rich: Well beautiful hotels - of the kind you like yourself ??

Suzanka: [chuckles]

Rich: I have to admit that growing up in a normal family, I couldn’t imagine what a life of luxury would be like, but I wanted to try it, for example staying in the hotel featured in ‘Lost in Translation’.

Suzanka: So hanging out in all the best hotels?

Rich: For example, at the time, if I was hanging out in Shinjuku and stayed there until night, I could have still taken the train home, but I tended to hail a cab all the way home to where I was living when I felt a bit tired, for 4,000 yen or 5,000 yen (30 - 38 Euro). I was doing all the things I liked, including wearing my favorite brand, Diesel, which I'm still wearing - sorry about the tattered jeans, that is embarrassing!

Suzanka: You have a real thing about fashion don’t you? I know, Diesel right?

Rich: But as you know, Diesel is far from cheap. I loved it still back when I was a student, but couldn’t obviously afford it at the time. But after I started working, I was able to earn my own money and buy them. I went to more and more Diesel stores, including the flagship store in Harajuku on Meiji-dori, and bought a lot. I think I was considered a good customer.

Suzanka: A good customer… enough to know the boss? [laughs] Kind of right?

Rich: So I was buying all this Diesel stuff, and my wife’s brother in Chiba happens to be the same height as me. Because I bought all this stuff, loads in fact, and ended up not using some of it, I used to send the hand-offs to him. So much so that I don’t think he needs to buy any new clothes and I am still giving him some to this day.

Suzanka: Like a gift, right?

Rich: Yes. So I first moved in April. It’s what I wanted, but I wasn’t living the right kind of life at first. It took me a while to get from Aichi to Tokyo, then a year or so and things got better and I ended up enjoying life to the full as described, including trips abroad.

Suzanka: What was the point at which things started to change?

Rich: Well I spent eight years in Tokyo before leaving in 2009. I couldn’t speak Japanese at first, but I was convinced that having the language would open a few more doors for me.

Suzanka: Yes, I agree. You will definitely have a more enriching life in Japan in every sense if you speak Japanese.

Rich: I wasn’t really learning Japanese for the money, because I was already earning well, but it was more about the new personal relationships it would open up. I didn't have many friends at the time, so I went to a lot of international parties at first. I used to do that much more than now. Now it's all apps and Clubhouse. At that time, there were international parties and gatherings all over the place. As you know, I have two kids now, but I didn’t have children at the time so I went to as many parties as I wanted. I was writing about this the other day. When I went to these events, the Japanese people there would look at me, smiling and ask things like ‘What country are you from?’ I used to go to those events and come back thinking ‘Oh I made 10 new friends today. It's great!’

Suzanka: You made so many connections…

Rich: Well, that’s what it seemed at first, but the reality was very different. I wasn’t familiar enough with Japan and its culture at the time. I got the impression that Japanese people were the friendliest in the world and that making friends with them was easy. That's not actually true, as we both know, but it was my misunderstanding and misinterpreting something which was actually quite shallow and superficial. For the Japanese people there, their mindset was ‘I'm happy to give the best of myself just for this two hours at the international party.’ So while they were smiling, what they really thought and felt was different. It would be something like ‘This guy is interesting but I am not sure I want to remain in touch.’ I couldn't work it out or my radar wasn’t working well, due to lack of experience but I know better now. It’s a fact.

Suzanka: Yes. I think the relationships like you described were superficial.

Rich: For example, if you get Japanese people who are very friendly indeed right from the outset, it may even be a negative sign. Normally, you’d warm up to people gradually and become friends like that, wouldn’t you? But if you get someone who acts American-style super happy right from the beginning, it’s too good to be true. It’s just them projecting, thinking to themselves ‘This is what I imagine you would be happiest seeing, so let’s give you this impression.’ But it's not heartfelt at all, it’s just what that person is thinking at the time, which makes it all a bit shallow.

Yes, I know it’s part of Japanese culture… but I still hate it. Even to this day, I know exactly what it is and why it happens, but I still dislike it. And people who just come to Japan have a real problem with this. There have also been times where I couldn’t spot the difference between real and fake as well, of course which was problematic.

Suzanka: Yep, it’s a minefield isn’t it…

Rich: I suppose more than something bad or good, it's just a fact. That's part of Japanese society, for better or worse. It's Japanese culture, but it's still very hard for foreigners, particularly to try and get used to it.

Suzanka: Yes, right. Given the choice, we’d prefer people to be straight and spit out what’s on their mind.

Rich: The way I see it, it turns someone potentially good into a kind of enemy, because they put up an invisible wall. And however kind, polite and courteous they are, it’s still a wall. And it’s because of that wall that it’s often very difficult or impossible to form close or strong relationships. Sometimes there are exceptions but often not.

Suzanka: Rich, you talk about your experiences like that, but you’ve actually been doing here for almost 19 years and you have a lot of great friends, right?

Rich: Including you!

Suzanka: Of course me - thanks! The famous Rich. I go to quite a lot of places, here and there, and when I mention your name, people tend to say ‘I know him’ so you are quite famous.

Rich: OMG scary!

Suzanka: You have a great network - I want to go back and talk about Tokyo later, but this great network of yours... I'm sure you noticed a lot of things. You have many friends in Japan and worldwide and a great network.

Rich: Well I can’t hold a candle to you there, though. You're the more popular among us two :P

Suzanka: No well, maybe I am a bit… :P

Rich: You are cute. I’m not that popular… But I went to Germany a while back for two weeks to visit Dusseldorf in December. There was no choice - it was really hard traveling at that time, but I went. And I had a few meetings I was there. I met people working in manufacturing and recruiting, but I was actually keen to discuss international activities.

For example, one girl wanted to talk to me because her job in a company was a Japanese-speaking role. What she said before we met surprised me: ‘I want to network more from now on, but I'm not good at it - what kind of tips do you have?’ I was shocked. She is the one meeting a lot of clients every day at work, as opposed to self-employed me. But she seemed to think my networking skills were amazing.

The thing is, I used to be totally terrible at any kind of interpersonal relations up until my mid-20s, so I never take it for granted now and I put more effort into everything social as a result. The whole thing is probably more meaningful to me than many other people, because it’s something I couldn’t do for so many years.

Suzanka: Yeah, I understand.

Rich: Now I can manage human relations quite well, I find it so pleasing and stimulating.

Suzanka: Right, but if anything you used to be very shy and not the kind of person who found it easy to make friends with anyone.

Rich: Yes. Saying that, I don’t think many of my current friends would believe it but I used to be the lemon in the corner, to whom no-one talked.

Suzanka: [chuckles]

Rich: Most of all women, but even making normal friends with guys proved almost impossible most of the time. But it’s weird if you think about it - it’s like riding a bike and once you can ride a bike, you think to yourself ‘How could I ever not ride a bike?!’ Nowadays, if there is a chance to meet anyone new, I am the first in line. I’m really happy that I can get on with people of all ages, whether students or my own age and I pride myself on having a good range of friends, young and old.

Suzanka: Well, but you are a child at heart though, aren’t you? [laughs]

Rich: [chuckles] We’re not going to go there. Well, there’s my friend in Kobe University, Rich Harrison. Normally, when you go on campus, it’s packed with students. In that kind of place, with loads of students, if you didn’t feel at ease, it would feel really strange, but I have no problem talking to young people like that and having the ability to talk to people from a wide spectrum is really a happy thing for me.

Suzanka: Yes, many different people. Definitely. The way you say it, it sounds like there is no barrier.

Rich: If we’re talking people I don’t get on so well with… maybe someone very, very Japanese?

Suzanka: Like me?

Rich: No. For example, when I meet someone one on one, and all they want to talk about is my family situation, wife and kids and so on.

Suzanka: Maybe it’s about privacy?

Rich: It’s not just that… it’s the fact they seemingly show no interest in me personally and will not ask about anything except family-related stuff, which is very annoying. It’s a lack of interest in me personally, more than any privacy issue. Why can’t the person talking focus on me? When they see me, they don’t see me as an individual but only as part of a family. One or two questions wouldn’t be a problem, but if the person keeps on asking such things persistently, they’re just showing themselves up as narrow-minded and that’s exactly the kind of person I dislike.

Otherwise - I realize it’s inevitable - but you get the same questions 100s of times: ‘Have you been in Japan a long time? How many years have you been in Japan?’ I mean you’ve been asked the same too, you know what I’m talking about. ‘Do you like Japan? Which part of Japan do you like?’ I know it’s the same for all foreigners here but it gets damn annoying.

Suzanka: You’re not wrong. It’s not that easy to be a foreigner in Japan.

Rich: I want to get a t-shirt with the answers pre-printed on it. The thing is, the person asking is doing so because they have no idea how to start a conversation, so all they can think of to say are the most obvious questions. You say to someone ‘Konnichi-wa’ or ‘Konban-wa’ and they come back to you with things like ‘Your Japanese is fantastic!’

Suzanka: Rich, your Japanese is great [chuckles]

Rich: Yeah, I know. :P

Suzanka: That's right. Going back to the topic of Tokyo a while, I know you built up a very nice life for yourself, but you still experienced some bumps in the road along the way Rich, didn’t you?

Rich: You mean when I was in Tokyo?

Suzanka: Yeah, or when you were working or something…

Rich: I used to work really explosively, like a rocket. I think I often did the equivalent of two or three people. To be honest, it paid well, but my wife was also working, before we had kids.

Suzanka: So you got married…

Rich: So we got married, and she had her own work and actually got a pretty good job with an investment bank in Nihonbashi. I remember once, we went to a weekend movie at the cinema in Roppongi Hills. Are you OK mate? (to person filming)

Suzanka: Are you OK? [chuckles]

Rich: So the idea was for both of us to kick back after a tiring working week and enjoy a late night trip to the movies, but she had been working so hard that she ended up falling asleep halfway through. What’s going on, I thought. We were getting too tired to even enjoy the weekends and it was too much. Just over the limit. My mum actually visited me in Japan three times in total. When she came to Tokyo, I was able to give her some very nice treats. I took her to all the nicest places and we traveled around Japan in first-class train carriages (green car). I wanted her to be proud of my hard work and success, but she was actually more worried about me. Words to the effect of - you’re working too hard and you’ll burn out, Rich. She wasn’t wrong really either. I couldn’t do that kind of thing now. At the time, whenever I took a break, it had to be a very nice hotel. I was working with my foot to the floor in every sense.

Suzanka: Because you were treating yourself.

Rich: Yeah, work hard, then hotels, or let’s go overseas, to Thailand, a 5 star place or somewhere. It was like my way of recovering.

Suzanka: Rich, tell me your favorite word in Japanese.

Rich: OK in Japanese. The first kanji I learnt was ‘谷’ (‘tani’) meaning ‘valley.’ 。

Suzanka: Tani?

Rich: Well the first place I stayed in Tokyo was the Imperial Hotel, and the station right next to it is called Hibiya. The ‘ya’ in Hibiya station is the character ‘tani’.

Suzanka: Tani.

Rich: And as for precisely why it was ‘tani’…

Suzanka: Because the character kind of resembles a house?

Rich: It looks like a house at first glance for me. Although the literal meaning is valley, the shape of the character resembles a house, which made it stick in my head. The first Japanese I learnt was probably from the Tokaido Shinkansen (bullet train), which I must have ridden about 100 times.

Suzanka: The bullet train…

Rich: Yes. The shinkansen. Between Tokyo and Osaka. “The next stations will be…” I can't really do it now, but I used to be able to recite the in-train announcement word perfectly. Actually, polite or honorific Japanese (keigo) fascinates me.

Suzanka: That’s so interesting…

Rich: You use that kind of honorific Japanese all the time in your work, don’t you?

Suzanka: Yes, right. [chuckles]

Rich: Much more than I do. But speaking honorific language properly is a big thing for Japanese people in society. Every year, for example, NTT has a national telephone answering competition. The idea is to test how flawlessly you can spontaneously produce perfectly polite and respectful Japanese when a customer calls.

Suzanka: The famous customer…

Rich: Yeah, nothing but that for three or four minutes. I would love to have a go - no foreigner has ever won the title.

Suzanka: [chuckles] You want to have a go?

Rich: Well up to now, there have been no males and no foreigners winning. So I’d like to be the first male and first foreigner to win this.

Suzanka: You can do it.

Rich: Don’t say I can’t… :P

Suzanka: You should really give it a go!

Rich: Please support me, then!

Suzanka: Certainly! (in polite Japanese)

Rich: [laughs] Well the good things have been more. We had my eldest son, he’s now 11.

Suzanka: When was that? 11 years back?

Rich: Yes, in 2009. We moved to Kobe when he was one year old. My wife’s hometown happens to be Kobe. I had had all the fun I wanted to in Tokyo, so I thought it was time to try out life in Kansai, West Japan dialect and so on, so I opted for Kobe.

Suzanka: So, Kobe. Where we are now, in fact.

Rich: Yes, I made three trips to see what kind of house and area I wanted to live in, and I ultimately decided on Kitano, because it resembled northern Europe a bit.

Suzanka: Kitano is a great place.

Rich: I agree.

Suzanka: It’s just at the bottom of the mountains.

Rich: I have to admit, I had a sense of pride in myself, which meant I couldn’t live just anywhere, in an average or mediocre place. I lived in a great part of Tokyo and I didn’t want to downgrade in any way.

Suzanka: But Kobe is a pretty small town compared to Tokyo, what do you think? I mean it does have some good points. The bread is good, the tea is good.

Rich: Absolutely, you’re not wrong. As you said, it has 1.5 million people, but it's tiny compared to Tokyo. When I was in Tokyo, I lived life intensely and to the full. I did all I wanted to do and it was really satisfying. By the time I went to Kobe, I had already had enough fun in Tokyo. Sometimes I go back and feel very nostalgic. More than a feeling of missing it, it’s more a feeling of nostalgia. So many memories but the most important thing is that I realized the dream so onwards and upwards…

Suzanka: Anyway, so you slowed down and focused on family.

Rich: Well, Kobe is a kid-friendlier place and I also wanted to give life in western Japan a try too.

Suzanka: Yes, West Japan (Kansai).

Rich: Kansai, which I know you love so much.

Suzanka: Yes… and I’m guessing you can do the Osaka dialect?

Rich: Well you’ve always lived in West Japan and never in Tokyo, right? Although you’ve often been there for work.

Suzanka: Nope, never ever.

Rich: Maybe you can’t imagine living there, even though you have a lot of work there - is that right?

Suzanka: Right, I think Osaka suits me just fine. I mean, I like Tokyo too, but Osaka…

Rich: You have friends all over the place, like me. More famous than me, right?

Suzanka: Right! [laughs]

Rich: Well, excuse me, I am supposed to be the one being interviewed, but I'd like to ask you something.

Suzanka: Me? Go ahead.

Rich: When we first met, it was at an event, wasn't it?

Suzanka: Yes, an event.

Rich: It was in Kobe.

Suzanka: Yes. Not far from where we are now, in fact a stone’s throw away.

Rich: Right and I remember it was an alcohol-themed event. The Japanese sake you drink every day.

Suzanka: [laughs] Haha, yes!

Rich: You drink it like water, don’t you?!

Suzanka: Yes! It tastes great!

Rich: [laughs] And at the time…

Suzanka: I was the MC.

Rich: As for why I was keen to come along… Well, obviously, you're a charming person, but more than that, if you're a foreigner who has lived in Japan for a long time, or been here for more than 10 years, we can definitely have a good conversation. Because we all tend to have had the same experiences. Whenever I attended events, the MCs were usually Japanese and it was rare to see a foreigner doing that. You have my respect!

Suzanka: Thank you very much. Well actually, I like venturing into places where normally only Japanese people are found.

Rich: I get you, I am just the same.

Suzanka: It's far from easy to enter a domain which is usually off bounds to foreigners and harder still to work, but I like to embrace that challenge. I think doing so can help change a lot of things and I hope it has a positive impact. As I already told you, Rich, I also don’t have many foreign friends, especially Europeans or Americans.

Rich: Is that still the case?

Suzanka: Yes, I still don’t have that many. Apart from Japanese, my other friends tend to be from Africa or South-East Asia. I didn’t think I needed to go out of my way to make European friends.

Rich: I know it doesn’t mean ‘dislike’, it’s just what you prefer isn’t it.

Suzanka: I don’t hate them, but I tend to avoid English-speaking people in particular.

Rich: But Rich is an exception! Does that make me special?!

Suzanka: Erm, Rich is different…

Rich: I’m special. In a positive meaning right?

Suzanka: In a good way. Of course, you’re English and I'm Czech, but it's a good feeling.

Rich: We get on well, which is probably a bit unusual given what you said, but if it were more normal, I probably wouldn’t have bothered to get in touch. I thought you performed well as an MC and the event was good and so on, but more than that, I was keen to find out what kind of person you were. I saw a bit of your personality while you were doing the MC job, but it was just one part of it and I knew you were different under other circumstances, so we met up over a cup of tea, didn’t we?

Suzanka: Yes tea.

Rich: We had a cuppa. I mean I know the old clichéd chat-up line is ‘Fancy a cup of tea?’ but actually we did have a cup of tea. [laughs] Fancy a cuppa?

Suzanka: [laughs] Yep. But it was a charming teatime.

Rich: Just as you said. I am not the kind of person who will just bring you to Starbucks… we went somewhere much nicer, didn’t we?

Suzanka: Right!

Suzanka: Well, we all come across foreigners in Japan at times. One thing I want to share with you Rich - in Japanese, there is a saying called ‘Gō ni ireba gō ni shitagae’, do you know it?

Rich: I haven’t heard it. What does it mean?

Suzanka: Do as the Romans do.

Rich: All right. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Yes.

Suzanka: Along those lines, and I had to conform. It’s something I often hear said in Japanese. But actually, although it’s partially true. I think it's also really crucial, as well as actually going to a country and respecting the culture of that country, to express your own sense of style and give people a fresh and new stimulus.

Rich: Absolutely.

Suzanka: Rich, you’ve been here for 18 or 19 years, but you don’t seem that Japanese to me.

Rich: Yes, from the outside perspective, I am not.

Suzanka: But what fascinates me is that you can keep your sense of self in that way, be yourself and still thrive.

Rich: Thanks. I probably kept more of my original culture than you, but not all. Had I not adapted at all, 18 years would have been impossible. I mean, I was the PTA chairman of my son’s elementary school for a year, and you can’t get a more Japanese job than that. Of course, the PTA role is very Japanese, Anyway it was my son’s school and speaking of my son for a moment, he is special needs. But because of that, the teachers tried even harder to do their best for him. And it’s because they worked so hard for him that when I was asked ‘Will you do the role of PTA Chairman for a year?’ I said ‘Well, OK.’ I admit, I like being free and with the job come many endless and meaningless meetings. And sometimes, you encounter a lot of rituals doing that job. For example, we once had a table-tennis tournament. The table-tennis tournament was a big deal, so I remember we had about four meetings to arrange it. I don't think we needed four meetings, but we had four meetings anyway, and on the day of the event, the participants were asked to do exercises in time to music. When it comes to these very Japanese things, I honestly struggle. I was there to show my face and say a few words of greeting but I wasn’t actually taking part in the sport, so then everyone started stretching and doing star jumps and I was like ‘No, I’m not playing so I don’t need to do these exercises’ and I think that was a big difference in me. This kind of attitude may provoke clashes sometimes, but if I give up being like that, it’s giving up part of who I am and I don’t want that. Yes, sometimes there is friction. I know what I like. When it comes to food, especially meals, I prefer Western food.

Suzanka: Yes, that’s different about you. I almost always eat Japanese food, so that part is different.

Rich: I remember, we went to a Japanese-style restaurant in Kyoto together once. That's unusual for me!

Suzanka: Teaching you how to order Japanese sake… [chuckles]

Rich: If it were bad, I would have eaten pizza.

Suzanka: Pizzas or salmon. ‘No salmon!’

Rich: If we’re talking sushi, I really only go for the ones most popular with foreigners, namely tuna, salmon and egg. [laughs]

Suzanka: I won’t order that.

Rich: It’s like baby food, isn’t it?

Suzanka: Baby food? Yes!

Rich: So if we’re talking food culture, I may not have delved so deep into Japan, but on the other hand travel-wise, I went to Yakushima, Sado Island and many other places.

Suzanka: You went to many, didn’t you.

Rich: In that sense, I feel I’ve done Japan comprehensively, but maybe not the food.

Suzanka: No? But I think that's okay too. I think it’s good to be in a place where you can both be yourself and fit in – both fit in and be different. As I said earlier, the problem of long meetings is famous in Japan, but actually, it's not only you, Rich, who think so, but so many Japanese themselves also feel the same.

Rich: But they can’t say it. They exercise self-restraint.

Suzanka: There are people who say it, but it’s difficult for just one person to do so, given the pressure to fit in with the group here and conform. However, such things are real issues and problems that no-one has been able to talk about until now. So in a sense, it’s like our roles to air these issues, as foreigners. I mean, if I were Japanese, no-one would listen to me or they would tell me to shut up, but because I'm a foreigner, there are times when people do listen to me.

Rich: You’re right.

Suzanka: They think things like: ‘She's a foreigner, but maybe she has a point...’ - Letting me say it, giving me a chance to express it.

Rich: Because we stand out.

Suzanka: I really think it can be great for Japanese society in a positive sense. Of course there is learning on both sides - we learn from each other. ‘Encounter and learn’ – I like that concept. I think it's important to learn from and understand each other.