The Email Marketing Metrics You Should Really Track

Marketing is filled with metrics that don’t mean much. I like to call them vanity metrics. And email marketing is not immune from this. Our special guest today, Kendra Corman, is an email list growth coach for entrepreneurs. We are going to dig into what email marketing metrics really matter so you can get actionable insights and make great decisions.

Join?Tim Fitzpatrick?and?Kendra Corman?for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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The Email Marketing Metrics You Should Really Track

Tim Fitzpatrick: Marketing is filled with all kinds of metrics that do not mean anything. I like to call them vanity metrics, call them whatever you want, but they don't mean anything. And email marketing is not immune to this. Our special guest today is an email list growth coach for entrepreneurs. We're going to dig into what email marketing metrics really matter so that you can actually get actionable data to make great decisions. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate revenue growth. I'd like to thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. Really excited to have with me Kendra Corman. She's a email ist growth coach, marketing strategist, consultant. Kendra, thanks for being here and taking the time.

Kendra Corman: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes, I am looking forward to digging into this because as we were talking about before we went live and started to record today, so many people are not talking about this. I'm not quite sure why. Do you have any idea why?

Kendra Corman: Because it's not easy. Open rates and vanity metrics are easy. They're easier to control, for lack of a better term, and it shows progress. It gives people a story to share that while they may not understand it, it's easy.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Well, I can't wait to dig into it. I want to ask you some rapid fire questions first. Are you ready to rock?

Kendra Corman: I'm ready.

Tim Fitzpatrick: When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

Kendra Corman: Reading and traveling.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Traveling anywhere in particular?

Kendra Corman: No. Anywhere. I'll go anywhere.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Anywhere but here. What's your hidden talent?

Kendra Corman: That's a good one. I usually say making wine disappear from a bottle. That's what I got.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Who is it that sings the country song? Is it Kelsey Valerini that sings the song about there's a hole in the bottle?

Kendra Corman: Oh, yes. You'll have to listen to that one.

Tim Fitzpatrick: You'll have to listen to that one.

Kendra Corman: I can't think who sings it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I think that's who it is. I don't know. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Kendra Corman: When I was much younger, I was at an event for Chrysler, and the head of HR said, If you don't have what you need for the job that you want, skill wise, volunteer and get it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: That's a good one. How many times have you done that?

Kendra Corman: All the time. By the time I got all my promotions at Chrysler was through people seeing me in volunteer roles in the company, not just externally for nonprofits and stuff. I volunteered to do projects with other departments.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Just so you could learn.

Kendra Corman: Get the experience.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I think a lot of people... It's fantastic advice. I think it's human nature for us to think short term, which makes taking that advice very difficult.

Kendra Corman: It is, but I'll tell you that it's revolutionized my career back when I was working for people before I started my own business, and then it revolutionized my business. It helped me grow leaps and bounds because I was helping nonprofits with advice and my expertise. Then all of a sudden they're like, We need more. I was like, Okay.

Tim Fitzpatrick: You find that by doing that, it also helped boost your confidence?

Kendra Corman: Yeah, definitely. Because once you see the results, then you're like, Oh, I'm pretty good at this.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I can do this. What's one thing about you that surprises people?

Kendra Corman: I was actually asking my husband that one. He gave me a couple of one. But I'd say I'm actually truly an introvert. I'm an outgoing introvert because I moved nine times growing up, so I had to be outgoing, but I recharge all by myself.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It's so interesting. I would say probably half the people I asked this question to say that. It's fascinating because so many people, I think, look at people that speak publicly or just do things to put themselves out there and assume that they're extroverts. It's not about being an introvert or an extrovert. It's about how you recharge, like you said. It's not about how you put yourself out there. Thank you for sharing that. What does success mean to you?

Kendra Corman: Flexibility.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Where's your happy place?

Kendra Corman: Vidanta in Mexico. It's a resort chain.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Vidanta? I've never heard of it.

Kendra Corman: You got to Google it. My father in law has the timeshare there and I go every year. I will not give it up.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay, so the Danta, is that D-A-N-T-A?

Kendra Corman:V-I-D-A-N-T-A

Tim Fitzpatrick:Oh, the Vidanta, okay. Vidanta, okay. I'm checking it out. What qualities do you value in the people you spend time with?

Kendra Corman: Honesty, I think is the number one. And then authenticity. I don't want to spend time with people that are fake.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Before we jump into email, tell us a little bit more about what you're doing. Who are you helping? How are you helping them? All that good stuff.

Kendra Corman: I'm helping entrepreneurs, solo entrepreneurs, and people looking to?grow their email list, improve their marketing. As you've talked in a previous podcast episode, there are people who are cutting back on marketing. They're not necessarily investing in it, or they are trying to do more themselves. And so I work with people to help coach and guide them so that they're doing good marketing and investing in the right places and have a resource to go to. So I have online courses and a coaching program.

Why Email Open Rates No Longer Matter

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. Cool. So let's talk about email. Why does email open rate no longer matter? And I think a lot of people will think about this question and go, What? What are you talking about? Because that is honestly the first metric that everybody goes to. Everybody. Why do we need to disregard this at this point?

Kendra Corman: So a couple of things. First off, what an open is, is it's not someone being able to see that you double clicked it and opened it in your Outlook or your Gmail or anything like that. What it is is it's a message to the server that you downloaded the images. So if there's images somewhere in your email, then it's downloading them and that is considered an open. Well, to help people with the?mail privacy protection, which is MPP, which is a program that Apple rolled out in their iOS 15 update, they are preopening your emails so that people like me who are doing email marketing can't see what device you opened it on, what time you opened it on, how many times you opened it. They don't want me getting any of that information. They've allowed people to opt in to mail privacy protection or MPP. I think it was last count, it was 80 % plus had opted in if they were given that option. Over 60 % of emails are received on a Apple iOS device. So if you have iOS 15 or higher, you've probably opted into it and Apple is preopening your emails.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. So shows isn't open doesn't necessarily mean anybody has opened it. So it's almost like a false positive.

Kendra Corman: Yes, definitely.

Tim Fitzpatrick: IOS 15, do you remember how long ago was this?

Kendra Corman: September 2022 is I think the full roll out is where it really... So it hasn't been too long, but it started in I can't remember, it was late 2021 or early 2022.

Kendra Corman: But it hasn't been too long.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Well, and I love how you answered, why are people not talking about this? Because this really does open up a huge can of worms with email marketing metrics and what you should actually be doing.

What to Focus on with Your Email Marketing

Tim Fitzpatrick: Let's peel the layers of the onion back a little bit there. Now that we know this, if this is the first time you're hearing this, what the heck are we supposed to do? I mean, that's not a reliable metric anymore.

Kendra Corman: Which at first I was like, Seriously? But then I thought about it and so basically I just have to improve my email marketing so that people want to engage with it. That's the key. That's the ultimate goal. Depending on what research survey you look at, email marketing return on investment is anywhere between?$38 and $42 for every dollar you invest in it. It's one of the highest return on investment marketing tactics you can have. Why waste time looking at things like an open rate when I can be looking to see how many people clicked, how many people converted, how many leads did I get, how is my list growing, where's my unsubscribed at? When you really look at quality metrics, you do better marketing. Because people will tell you what they want to hear, what they want to see, what they want to read, and they control it by interacting with it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It would seem to me that... Clicks is that first strong signal of engagement. Not that they've just read it. They got to click.

Kendra Corman: Clicks because click rate is a percentage of opens. So if you've been tracking your email marketing all along, your open rates been going up since iOS 15, and your click rate has been going down because more opens are happening. So your rates are going down.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Well, so you could also look at, rather than click rate, you could look at clicks as a percentage of total send.

Kendra Corman: Or total delivered.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, something like that is probably a much more reliable metric. From a conversion standpoint, if you're going to do that, that's going to get a little bit more complicated. Because now we need to start looking at how we can follow the action from email to wherever they're going. It's possible, but you need to take the time to actually set it up.

Kendra Corman: Yes, exactly. But again, it's all coming down to quality now. You have to have more interesting subject lines. You have to have more interesting content. You have to be more focused on value than ever before because you used to be able to just say, Oh, look, all these people opened. Yay. They didn't do anything with it because some people were phoning it in, or they weren't being consistent with their emails and people were accidentally opening it and then deleting it.?

Tim Fitzpatrick: So we need to focus on engagement. We can focus on engagement with a focus on quality, adding value. If we're going to get clicks, we need to have calls to action of some kind, right? What do you think of HTML based email versus text based?

Kendra Corman: That's a really great question. I was doing text only emails for a little while, and then I decided to test out something that I had heard that people were having success with, and that was adding a GIF or a GIF, whatever you want to call it. But I call it a GIF. I did too. A GIF in my email. My engagement actually went up. People enjoy seeing a little bit of your personality and engaging with GIFs, which is pretty funny. But I do believe that simpler is better. People feel that it's more personal and overly designed. The email gets, in my experience and with all of the email accounts that I manage for my clients, they get less engagement overall.

Tim Fitzpatrick: For those of you that don't know, I don't want to assume, HTML based email is just a pretty looking email. It's formatted, you can put buttons, you can put images, whereas text just removes all of that formatting and it's extremely simple. In a text based email, you can't even hyperlink, can you? You just put the link.

Kendra Corman: You can put the link. Depending on how it's set up in the email marketing system that you're using, you can sometimes hyperlink, but not a lot of stuff

Tim Fitzpatrick: I know some of it with text based, you lose some of the tracking capabilities, do you not?

Kendra Corman: Sometimes it depends. Again, it depends on the email marketing system and what they're putting in on the back end because there is a level of tracking on the back end. But again, you've lost a lot of the tracking outside of the clicks anyway. Depending on what you're doing on your buttons or with your links, if you're using UTM codes and things like that to track from the email performance, that's all still there.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. Okay. I'm hearing you say simple... You did say something key that's easy for people to overlook. Test. Just test it. Yeah,

Kendra Corman: Got to test it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Send some text, see what happens. Send some HTML and see how your list responds. I think it's by the way, testing, you find what people on your list engage with.

Kendra Corman: And that's key. Exactly what you're saying. Because, yes, my people were engaging more with GIFs. That doesn't mean yours will. It's all unique to your audience and what they want to see.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I can't remember where I heard this framework, but it always stuck with me with marketing is just you test, you measure, learn, and you just wash, rinse, and repeat. You're just you're never done because it can always be better. I love that.

Email Marketing Metrics You Should Track

Tim Fitzpatrick: What metrics should we be looking at? We started to talk about this, but I just want to make sure we're not missing anything here. Clicks, definitely super important.

Kendra Corman: Total clicks, unique clicks, those are very good ones. They do give you a little bit of insight. Again, total clicks is if you have two calls to action in an email and I click on both of them, that's two total clicks but only one unique click. You want to take a look at what that's telling you and how your email marketing system is giving you that information. So clicks is really important. I like to track my list size and list growth and my unsubscribes. Now I'm not saying, and we were talking a little bit about this before we started recording, I'm not saying that, Oh, you want a million people on your list. Odds are you probably don't because you're going to be paying way too much for that email list and not that many people are going to be engaging with your stuff. But you do want to see that it's headed in the right direction, that you're growing and not shrinking unless the shrinkage is strategic. My email has shrunk for a little bit when I changed from full service agency to more of the coaching and consulting. That I viewed as a good thing because I wanted it to go down and then I wanted it to go back up, which is where it's been headed for the last year or so. That's really important. I like to look at list growth and size. I like to look at unsubscribes. Are the unsubscribes going up? Who's unsubscribing? Do I know them? Have I interacted with them? Why is this no longer relevant to them? And sometimes, again, it's a good thing and I'm okay with it. But you do still want to look and see if you're getting spikes in unsubscribes when you're doing other kinds of content and other types of marketing information. Clicks, like I said, deliverability. Deliverability is a big one because they can't click it. They can't, in reality, in real life, open it if it doesn't make it to the inbox. You want to check your deliverability. That's the number of sends. Then you want to take out the ones that end up as spam or undeliverable and things like that. And you want that to be as high as possible.

Tim Fitzpatrick: As few emails going to spam or showing undelivered as possible.

Kendra Corman: Exactly. And then I like to look at the number of leads generated. Usually, I can tell with a lot of leads from my emails because people reply back. That's a really good sign. If people start replying to your emails, it doesn't show up as a click and things like that, but it shows up as a conversation. And so I like to note those and keep track of that also. And then I keep track of notes. What was I testing? What was I talking about? Just a couple of bullet points on each email so that I can start to see trends in the content that I'm sending and what people are interacting with and what they're not.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. I'm going to ask you some of the more common questions that come up with email. How often should I be sending email?

Kendra Corman: I love that question. That's actually one of my favorite questions because it's like most questions in marketing, it doesn't have an answer.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes. I just want to ask.

Kendra Corman: So I send weekly. Amazon, I think, and some other online retailers, they send daily. They can get away with it. Most of my clients send once or twice a month. It depends on the level of content and the amount of value that you can add for your audience and how much value they really want from you. As long as you define that up front as to what you can consistently deliver, that's your frequency. Most business to business organizations, I tell them usually once to twice a month is enough. You just want to stay top of mind. If you're trying to drive online business and online sales and e-commerce, well, then once a week is probably your minimum.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love that. It's a fantastic answer. I think understanding your list and what their needs are super important. I'm just going to give a few examples here recently for me. I'm going to leave the company names out because I don't want to disparage anybody here. But let's say you need tires. You go in, you buy tires. I don't need a freaking email from the place I bought tires two or three times a week. I don't even need one once a month. I just bought tires. I'm not in the game here. I don't want your emails. What happened is I unsubscribed. Now, I may have stayed on the list had they done it at a slightly different frequency or if they were sending out better information. But everything I got was a discount package on new tires. It's like, Guys, I just bought new tires. What the hell? So they're not segmenting their list at all, so they have no idea. It's like I just went into the general mass list. Huge mistake, I think. And two, I might have stayed on the list if maybe like once a month I was getting something on tire tips, like what should I be doing to make sure that my tires last 50,000 miles and not 20? They were just sending out too frequently, wrong type of information, didn't segment. Any thoughts you want to add to that?

Kendra Corman: No, I mean, that's a perfect example of not doing email marketing well. They're just... And they probably are getting a response from it because you're on their general list. So they think it's working. But again, if you're tracking your unsubscribed and you see that everybody that just joined your list is unsubscribed, that tells you something, right?

Tim Fitzpatrick: I think there's so many... I mean, this has been... It's a big company. I don't know how many emails they're sending out, but it's got to be a heck of a lot, like you said. It's just a waste of an email subscriber.

Kendra Corman: Right. Well, and think about it from the sending perspective. What was in it for you? When I was writing it, I need to be thinking about you. So what am I creating that's in it for you? If there's no value for you in it, then I shouldn't be sending it. I need to think about what value you need to see. And if it's tire tips or just regular maintenance tips or anything related to that could be good. Or even a weather notification, like, Hey, roads are going to be bad today.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It could be, honestly, even... Look, we all drive different amount of miles, but even if they just said, Well, we're just going to send out reminder messages for the average number of miles that people drive, that would be helpful for me. Hey, the average person drives X amount of miles. You need to rotate your tires every 5,000 miles. You might be getting close. If you are, come in and schedule a rotation. Something like that is not difficult.

Kendra Corman: Here's the thing. Because they weren't sending you value and relevant content, then they lost their opportunity to contact you by email again because you unsubscribed. Unless you go in and resubcribe, which usually you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to do. But they've lost you now as an opportunity to communicate with you. There's a lot of value lost there. A lot of value lost.

Tim Fitzpatrick: A ton. Well, most marketers that you talk to that are heavy into email all say, Your business is all about your list. It is all about the list. They'd rather start over completely. As long as I can keep my list, I'll start over because there's so much value in that list. It's worth taking the time to do the best you can to maximize that asset. Like you touched on, the return on email is so strong.

Kendra Corman: If you think about email, think about it when you get home and you go to the mail box and you take out the junk mail and you go... And then you go and you check your inbox and your email inbox. You're not as accepting of emails that are there that are waste of time. You get too many emails to want to deal with that. Email is highly personal and it's permission based when done well. So you need people's permission. And when they take away that permission, that's telling you that what you're sending is no longer valid or no longer valuable to them. That's something you need to think about. Again, it might be by design and that's okay. But you need to make that decision because you don't want to lose it. I am a big believer of the fact that your email list is your business's greatest asset. It is your existing customers. It is your prospective customers. It's your funnel. As we move into some uncertain times, the people that?have a solid email list?are going to survive better and thrive better because they can make money by offering things to their email list. It doesn't matter. They're checking it every day. I think it's something like 99 % of people check their email every day. It's ridiculously high. So they're seeing it. Make sure it's valuable.

Tim Fitzpatrick: How do you feel about... We've touched on unsubscribes a little bit. There seem to be two camps with unsubscribes where you just... One camp, just, hey, leave people on and let them unsubcribe themselves. There's other people that feel like you should actually unsubcribe people that aren't active on your list. A lot of times people base this on open rate. Knowing what we know now and what we've talked about, how do you feel about managing the people on your list that are not active?

Kendra Corman: I call it list hygiene, so cleaning up your list. It's when you have to clean up your list because if you are sending out, say you've got a list of 2,000 people, right? You're sending out 2,000 emails a week, we'll say. If only three people are interacting with it, that's sending signals to Google, Yahoo, Aol, Microsoft, everybody, right? Everybody that's receiving the emails. So the different end of the email marketing system, right? The email receiver. It's sending them a signal that your content isn't valuable to the people that are getting it, which increases the amount of times it gets moved into spam and junk and things like that. But you're right. With opens, it's a lot harder to identify it. The last time I did an email list cleanse, I do it about every six months. I still based mine on opens, even though I didn't get everybody because the clicks just aren't there yet to that extent because I don't necessarily know if somebody moved my email into a reference folder or something along those lines. Those are a lot harder to find. So I've started, even if you just start cleaning your list, still using opens, even though you won't get everybody and you'll still leave some people on your list who aren't engaging, I think that's okay right now as we work harder to, again, create more engaging content to drive to those clicks and get that interaction. One of my podcast episodes, we were talking about interns, and two people actually called my guest and said, Hey, we heard you on Kendra's podcast. And I doubt that they actually heard on the podcast. I think they actually read it in the show notes in the email and they contacted the person. They didn't click on anything, but yet they're listening and reading. So I would have lost them had I just removed them. So I encourage people to, for right now, use opens. And then as you create more engaging content and as your clicks increase and your replies increase and the overall engagement with your content increases, that's when we'll start changing how to do that because unfortunately, right now, we still have to use opens for some things.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I think, like you said, you might be missing some people that aren't engaging, but it's the only real good metric you can use right now for that, I think. Because the flip side of this is, look, between 5 % to 10 % of your audience is ready to buy at any given point in time. And that's one of the great things about email is it just helps you stay in front of those people and continue to nurture and build that relationship. Honestly, there are lists that I have been on for multiple years, and I started doing business with those people. But if I had been unsubscribed from their list because I was showing that I wasn't opening, they would have lost me. But guess what? Just because I wasn't opening, I didn't need it all the time. But guess what? I still saw them in my inbox. I had to actually just swipe the email or delete the email, but I still saw them. It just wasn't super appropriate for me right at that point in time, but I still wanted to stay on the list. So you talk about replies, Kendra. How many times has somebody replied that you haven't heard from in a year or two, you're like, Oh, yeah, gosh. Yeah, I remember that person. So we never know when that need is going to arise, and they're actually going to respond and reply. So it's important to clean out the list, but I think we also need to be cognizant of finding, I guess, that balance where...

Kendra Corman: I'm a little more on the conservative side when it comes to cleaning the list. So if you can use a number that's going to include or exclude more people off of the, Hey, do you still want to hear from me? That's the number you want to use because, again, you don't want to make those judgments for people. You want them to be able to go in and see what they want to click on and what they want to engage with. Even just seeing your name keeps you top of mind. That's what's really cool about email marketing and part of the return on investment it provides.

Tim Fitzpatrick: You touched on list size a little bit. What are your thoughts? How big of an email list do we need? How long does it take to start building a meaningful email list?

Kendra Corman: I love what you said right there, meaningful. Okay, so yes, my dad is on my email list and he replies and then clicks on my stuff. My dad is not going to be buying anything from me. Now, it's still good that he's on it because then he can tell people about it. But again, it's not going to result in a sale or marketing coaching session because we can do that at Thanksgiving dinner. But what it comes down to is you want people on your list who are prospects. You're nurturing that contact and building that know, like, and trust factor with them so that they eventually buy from you. If you have a list that if you're like, Yes, I have 10,000 people on my list. Great. How many are your actual target audience? How many are in a place that they can or will eventually be in a place to buy from you? Those are the important questions you need to be able to answer. I know people that have made $10,000 off of selling to an email list of less than 200 people. Now, I like 1,000 to $2,000 to be in a really good place because the conversion rate is usually fairly low, especially just from a direct email. But you need quality people on your list. Even if you're just starting with 20, it doesn't matter. As long as they are in your target audience and can eventually want to do business with you, that's the key. It's always quality over quantity. I like to judge myself against myself. So I said, everyone's like, How big should my list be? How many clicks should I have? I want more than I had last week. That's my goal.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It goes back to the list growth.

Kendra Corman: And as a key performance indicator, it starts to indicate, if my list is growing, that indicates positive things for me in my business. If my list is declining, then I have to start questioning, Okay, what am I not doing enough of? Why are they not finding that valuable? It's a really good thing because it indicates to me what my pipeline is going to look like.

Tim Fitzpatrick: There's all kinds of ways to build list. Can you share some of your thoughts on list building? Because a lot of people are like, Okay, great. I need to start building my list. What's the next step? What do I need to do?

Kendra Corman: My favorite way to grow a list is really and truly by providing value. Look at that person's email address as payment for something. If it's payment for a discount on your website or payment for what I like to downloadables or freebies or whatever you want to call them. Those are really where I like to start from growing your list. If you can give people value, solve a problem for them and help them deal with something that they're struggling with, that, again, builds that know, like, and trust factor, and then you can continue the conversation with them and nurture that relationship. Marketing comes down to relationships, business to business, especially, but business to consumer, too. What you think of the company and the relationship you have with that company, whether or not it's like a person or a big company matters. It really comes down to relationships and the opportunity to build that relationship. If you can give somebody a quick win with a checklist or a how to guide, or five steps to X, Y, or Z, you can show them that you're knowledgeable, that you have expertise, and you can help them to the point where they're like, Oh, I want to hear more from this person. That just has so much value to it. Usually when it comes to list growth, I encourage people to create a download. I usually encourage people to start with a PDF because it's usually one of the easiest ways to do it. And to put it on their website, put it on their social media profiles everywhere that they go, so that way they can market it. Especially if you've got speaking events, have a follow up resource for people and give them an easy to use URL that they can just type in after that speaking event. And again, it converts them into people that you can build a relationship with and nurture. And that's what's really important.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So What I'm hearing you say is we don't need to overcomplicate this. This does not have to be some huge funnel and you got a class or whatever. It doesn't have to take a lot of time. It just needs to be valuable. Frankly, I think the easier it is to use and consume, the better in general. So I love that. And as we start to close things out, we're going to give you guys some links here. You want to go see a downloadable, then you can go to these links and just see what Kendra and I are doing and take what you will from it and use it yourself.

In Conlusion: The Email Marketing Metrics You Should Really Track

Tim Fitzpatrick: Do you have any last minute thoughts you want to leave us with today, Kendra?

Kendra Corman: I think the biggest thing that I want to share is to just make sure that you are constantly improving and adding more value as you go. Again, most of my clients and students with email marketing, I'm always telling them, Let's look and see where you're trending. I want to see where you're headed. Don't do comparisons. You and somebody else, you don't know where they're at. You have no idea the quality of their list. I was at a networking event and they had 10,000 people. Who were those 10,000? Were they buying from them? How are they doing? People don't know. You just don't know someone else's situation. Don't get into a comparisonitis situation. Take a look and make sure that you're doing better from week to week or month to month. That's really the key to all of it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love that advice. Not comparing yourself to others is one of the principles that is on my refrigerator that I share with my kids every ding day. It's so hard for most of us. We just got to remember because most of the time, we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. It's like we see people, especially as entrepreneurs or business owners, you see somebody and you're like, Oh, my God. They're killing it. It happened so fast. No, it didn't. We're not seeing all the work that they put in for years. So, man, just stop comparing. We don't know what anybody else's situation is. So I love that.

Kendra Corman: And not just is that? They look like they're killing it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, they might look like they're killing it right?

Kendra Corman: They might not be.

Tim Fitzpatrick: No, they might.

Kendra Corman: I was actually shocked to learn that somebody that I had been comparing myself to, because yes, we are all guilty of it, even though I'm going to tell you not to do it, right? Do as I say, not as I do. I was comparing myself to somebody, and then I was in a couple of meetings, and I realized she's not doing quite as well as I thought she was. Now, that's not meaning she's not doing well, but I had put her up here. And she's more at my level. I was like, Oh, interesting to know.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love that. Where can people learn more about you? By the way, this is one of those links that I was talking about a couple of minutes ago.

Kendra Corman: They can visit KendraCorman.com. If you go to Kender Korman. Com forward slash 1,000, the 1,000, you can get my guide. It's seven steps to growing your email list, and it will hopefully help you take a different perspective on how you're moving forward with email marketing and hopefully give you a head start and a jolt to get you thinking about it and get you doing it on a more consistent basis.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Awesome. I love it. Head on over there, KendraCorman.com/1000. We'll make sure that's in the show notes. I hope you realize after we've finished this conversation that Kendra knows what she's talking about. Kendra, thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I know people got some value from this. Those of you that are watching, listening, thank you for doing so. Here's another downloadable link, go to?revenueroadblockscorecard.com. There you will be able to discover and assess which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your business growth. It takes less than five minutes. If you want to connect with us, you can also do that at our website at rialtomarketing.com. Thank you guys so much, Kendra. Thank you. Until next time, take care.

Connect With Kendra Corman

• Linkedin

Links From The Episode

• Kendra Corman
• 7 Steps to Reaching Your First 1000 Subscribers

About the author,?Tim Fitzpatrick

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