Downstream

Downstream

Robert Lundahl, Emmy Award Winning Filmmaker/Journalist

[email protected]

?Copyright Robert Lundahl, Tracker Ginamarie Rangel Quinones, Creative FRONTLINE, Agence RLA, LLC

Where the Water Goes

I wanted to tell you that I looked up Walker Lake.

And I don't think I’ve ever been there, but I know where it is. And, the Walker River drains down the East side of the side from Yosemite and Bridgeport. Right? And then it goes into Walker Lake, and there's no there's no outflow. So it's a it's a terminus. They call it a terminus and a "sink". So it's a sink. It sinks.

So where does all that water go, Matt?

Matthew Leivas Sr. (Chemehuevi Hereditary Chief)

Yeah, I believe it's all going down to the Southeast there, over towards Amargosa, and Beatty and on down to the headwaters for the whole Amargosa River.

Robert Lundahl

Can you tell me that again? Because what it looks like to me, and I made the movie on the Elwha River, remember? And so I had. I told the story of the river, I went up to the top of the glacier, and you see the drip, drip, drip of the glacier melting and comes down, the vegetation changes and you start getting insects and birds and fish and trout fishermen start getting up there, you know, and all that stuff. And so I told the story of the river. And what it looks like to me is a river. It looks like a river all the way down from Walker Lake, down into the Colorado. Can you talk about that?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Everything's beneath the surface there. You know, the aquifers are running underwater under the ground there. Nobody can see them. And just like the waters are running over here, and in the Mojave Desert that nobody can see, they're 50, 100, 200ft beneath the surface. You just can't see it with a naked eye. But it is flowing 24 over seven.

Robert Lundahl

And you said, I think we talked about the US Ecology, low level nuclear waste repository and how that had leaked. And then you mentioned the nuclear testing and there were radionuclides picked up. I think you said a mile from the last test site. Testing site.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Well, we're talking about two different subjects, though. The US Ecology site at Beatty was leaking in the 90s and it was detected and it was determined that it was contaminating the Amargosa and the water system over at Beaty and the other is the last underground nuclear test. A year after the explosion, they tested waters a mile away from the epicenter, the explosion site, and they detected all these radioactive nuclides in the groundwater. And so, in my layman’s mind, I see that these things migrated in the water for over a mile, and this has been going on for some time. Like I say, you know, the water is moving beneath the surface and nobody sees it, but it's picking up all these other contaminants that are we're unable to detect with the naked eye unless we have scientific equipment to determine what is what, what's contaminated and what's not. But we don't know what's going on beneath the surface.

And there's already been so much damage done by all these nuclear explosions, not only here in the United States, but abroad and in the oceans. You know, they contaminated the whole entire Earth. And all these other things are having a consequence to the ecosystem. And all the little critters and creatures that are suffering for it and changing, morphing. It's a strange combination. What has happened, what mankind has done to the Earth and the entire ecosystem, because they didn't know. They had no inkling of what they're dealing with. Back when they discovered this power of nuclear energy, they released the beast.

Robert Lundahl

And Walker Lake is right by Hawthorne, Nevada, which is the US Navy Munitions Center. And one of the reasons they put it in Hawthorne is there not many people there. So if they had a major accident, you know, won't, you know, kill a whole large city of folks. But there's a lot of residue from their work, too. And a lot of animals have died. I've seen the work of a photographer named Richard Misrach, who went out there and took photographs of these pools of water with dead horses and cows in them and everything, you know, and, and he attributed it to the to the naval weapons facility at Hawthorne.

Contaminating The Earth

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Well, there's a lot of evidence there that proves that, you know, they've been contaminating the Earth wherever they go. And, you know the simple soldier who is burning debris and not even knowing what they're burning and yet standing downwind of all this, toxic fumes and years later, suffering consequences. The respiratory issues, you know, not even knowing what they're burning and all these contaminants that they're releasing into the atmosphere and into their bodies that they're breathing without any type of type, any type of breathing apparatus. And this is the federal government, mind you. You know, our wards. Were supposed to be watching out for the betterment of the people.

Robert Lundahl

About making another movie on El Toro down in Orange County… And I talked to U.S. Marines who were suffering a bunch of illnesses-male breast cancer was one of them. That was quite common. And we were driving around and they had bulldozers pushing dirt, and they were tearing down warehouses and everything. And all of our eyes were watering like crazy. And you could smell it. It was horrible. And the US Marines that I spoke to told me that in order to dispose of this stuff, they would just dig holes in the ground and throw it in trichloroethylene, U-235, all that stuff.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah, well, mankind is disposable. You know, if you're working for the government, you really don't know what you're dealing with. And you think they're going to be watching out for you, even if you're a soldier, enlisted man in any of the services. Don't be surprised at what the government will do to you. It happened to me. It happened to me, brother. And about 60 or 70 other Marines in Camp Pendleton in the brig.

I was locked up in the brig for three months. But when I first got into the processing and we all went to our cell block wall had double beds in the bunks. After lunch or anyway, everyone was knocked out. Everybody was passed out within minutes, and I happened to be the first one that woke up out of this stupor and I started questioning myself. What the hell happened? What did they feed us? What do they do to us? Why did they knock us out? But every one of those Marines in that cell block with me were all knocked out because of what they fed us. That's our government. Tell it to you in the public right now, because it happened to me and 60 or 70 other Marines.

Robert Lundahl

That's a horrific story.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah.

Ash Meadows

Robert Lundahl

Well, I wanted to pick up the story of the Chemehuevi people. So now downstream, downstream from Walker Lake, like you said, you know, there's these materials moving and they're they move into the Amargosa Valley basin. And then one of the places where that water pops up is Ash Meadows, and that provides habitat, places to live, animals, fish, people gathering, and families gathering. And we started talking about that, and you said that that was a village. And I think you said the Mormons pushed them out. Is that true?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Well, not just the Mormons. But society. White society. The Westernization. Western movement. You know, with the gold rush?and everything happening in the 1800s, you know, there was a mass exodus of people coming west or in search of riches and trying, trying to find their way and trying to make money. But, you know, they were just leaving a trail of waste behind them, and they didn't care who they went over or what they took as long as they got to their destination.

You know, they brought all kinds of other garbage with them. And when, when things really started happening up here at Amargosa and Death Valley and everything, it was because of the vast influx of people coming into the region, namely the Mormons, and establishing all their own towns and like you and your audience to know that, you know, in Nevada North Las Vegas, there's a town up there, a Mormon town called Haiku.

In the NuWu language is white man. So they named the town after themselves, you know. And below that, below Haiku was a valley. That rich agricultural land that was the Mormons wiped out the Southern Paiutes. And that's recorded history. So Pahranagat Valley?is actually the green belt for the Southern Paiutes. So they can go and harvest and collect and distribute.

But, you know, this is what's happening is colonization, Westernization and way of life and lifestyles that that the white people were bringing to our people and converting them from indigenous people to Mormons and getting the Indians to do their dirty work. You know, it was just the mode of the white man back in the day, used and abused and as a society, we were disposable. And that's the same way the federal government is- (we’re) viewed as disposable and undesirable. They didn't want us around. They wanted to destroy us.

You know, come the 1850s in California, with the taking of all the indigenous lives in their state, and probably over the border, too. And both borders, all borders, all state borders, just for a scalp. But they were doing it and it was happening in real time.

Forced Removal

And our people were fleeing, trying to hide?and trying to protect?and trying to survive. And one thing bad about all these contaminants up there at Amargosa and Death Valley with all the nuclear waste, is in comparison to what's happening down here in the Lower Colorado River down in Parker. You know the tribal government put out issued warnings for the people not to harvest mesquite beans?anymore because of all the aerial spraying that was going on for agriculture.

You know, all the pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, defoliants?and this is stuff that they sprayed over our homes as well, you know, without any type of forewarning or no notices of what chemicals are being dumped, harmful effects, nothing. They just had carte blanche. And airplanes come and go and they are dumping their crap all over the reservation.

So the tribe tribal government put out a notice. You know, don't be eating the mesquite beans?and harvesting from the local trees. And this is why we were adamant about establishing our tribal farm?here on the reservation and not allowing any chemicals on our lands?in our agricultural projects. So we're a traditional garden. Organic farm.

Okay. And that's where we're going to keep it. And we don't want to bombard our lands with all these contaminants and contaminate not only the fruit, the land, but you know, the soil, the water. And this is what's happening all up and down the Colorado River with all this massive agriculture, is they're bombarding everything with chemicals. So from the tri state area, Fort Mojave, Colorado River, Indian Tribes, Quechan?and Cocopah?are doing this because they're being told to do this and being allowed to do this.

And It's all for profit. And the same old, same old adage, you know, everything is for profit. Everything is for making money. And they don't care about consequences?as long as they can produce and get it on the market and get it out and make their buck. They don't care about the land. They don't care about the water. They don't care about the people here at Chemehuevi.

We are the only tribe along the river that isn't using these chemicals to bombard our reservation. And we're very proud about that. That's why I say when we're building our soil and healing our land, that's what we're doing. But we're making it conducive to producing whatever we want to grow. Anything grows out here on this land. Now, you know, we got rich soil, but it took time to build it up that way naturally. And it's happening right now, today. But, you know, all these contaminants up and down the river. And the latest thing was these other contaminants that hit the river directly, like the chromium six, hexavalent chromium,?ammonium perchlorate, you know, because that all the other pharmaceuticals?coming from downriver, you know, it's completely contaminating this water. It's like sewage water?when it gets down to the Gulf, wastewater.

Robert Lundahl

Right. Well, we talked about Las Vegas releasing their treated wastewater right into Las Vegas Wash. That was one of our conversations, but I want to pick up the conversation.

Bad Things

So we were we were talking about the nuclear testing and the movement of materials through the water. And I brought up the point that Las Vegas, I believe, means "the meadows". In, in Spanish. And we talked about Floyd Lamb Park, which is that park in the North End, and it's very lush. It's, there's a lot of water there. And then you get down into North Las Vegas and you don't see it anymore. It goes underground. They built a city on top of it. And you said that the drainage from Las Vegas. You know, the sewage treated sewage goes into the Las Vegas Wash, comes out into the Colorado River by Jean (NV).

And so it seems like your people moved downstream to escape. And then and then you guys arrived at the Parker area and Chemehuevi Valley. Am I getting my scenario more or less correct?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. You're correct. Now there's two different distinct groups of Chemehuevi that left Ash Meadows?and Amargosa Area. Okay. The first group that left was the group that is now known as the 29 Palms Band of Mission Indians. And they're over in Coachella, California. And that was they separated at first, but I believe the reason why they did is because of everything I had told you about the colonization and the Westernization coming to our people and them not wanting to change or adapt.

You know, they wanted to keep their traditional ways. And so they left the area. Get away. Get out into the desert from far away as you can go to the other tribes. And that's what they did, you know. And they settled over here at Twentynine Palms, at the Oasis of Mara, which is a Serrano village. And they lived and coexisted with the Serranos as well as the Cahuillas, and ventured down into Coachella and Morongo and in turn they intermarried with all the other tribes and one of the other tribes that came out of this that we found out was the Paiuchis?over in San Bernardino, and that's another story in itself.

But, you know yeah, you're right, you know, and the other group that that went to the Colorado River, they went from Amargosa all the way to the east to Cottonwood Island?and coexisted with the Mojaves?and intermarried with the Mojaves?and moved further south into Mojave land what is now the Mojave Indian Reservation, just north of the Avi Casino.

There's a village there called Beaver Lake, and there's a cemetery there also. And so that was the establishment. And then further down south here at Havasu is where the village of Siwaviits was. And that's all beneath the lake of Lake Havasu right now. And what we're doing here on the reservation up here on the mesa is restoring Siwaviits and bringing it back to revive it and make this mesa a green mesa and livable for our people. With all the resources, the greenery and the animals that are coming with it. And that's all happening naturally. And what's amazing is seeing that land convert and creating a whole new ecosystem up there. And it just blows my mind to see what we've done and accomplished over a short period of time. But it's hard to try to convince my tribal government, who doesn't have any inkling what it takes to farm.

Robert Lundahl

So, yeah. And so we pick up another part of the story in Parker Valley, and your mother at Parker Valley School, is that right?

Survival

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. When Parker Dam was being constructed and near the end of completion the federal government moved all the Chemehuevis out of Chemehuevi Valley, out of Siwaviits. And that's all what’s beneath the lake, all the villages and the farms and whatnot. So all the Chemehuevis were forced out of Chemehuevi Valley, and a lot of them went to different reservations, the Southern Paiute reservations, and some went to Twentynine Palms, some went to Parker, some went to Las Vegas, Pahrump over at Tuba City, Arizona, at the San Juan Southern Paiute Reservation. And anyway, they just dispersed, but they went back to families and my mother's family traveled from Chemehuevi Valley down to Parker and they settled. A couple of times and they finally got an allotment for my grandmother. And that is now Hanks Village. And it's still in existence and I'm on a mission to clean all that up right now and revive it.

But that was what happened is the government moved the people out. And my family, the Hanks family moved down to Parker and settled and created Hanks Village, the Double H Ranch, named after my father, Henry. I'm sorry. My grandfather, Henry Hanks.

And when she got old enough, she told me that she recalled a car. These white people, a man and a woman, got out of the car and were talking to my mother, and the other siblings were there, or her sisters and brothers and but she wasn't in school, and the government had a mandate to put all the Indian kids in schools into the government schools.

BIA schools. And the government constructed a school up on the mesa at the Parker BIA agency along with the Parker Indian Jail?nearby. But they constructed a frame building up there. It's still standing today. It's the first Indian boarding school on the Colorado River Indian Reservation. Okay. And my mother said that these government people showed up a man and a woman and talked to my mother and my mother, my mother's mother, who didn't speak English but knew that she had to do this. She had to put her in school. Otherwise they can suffer consequences, you know? So she said her mother told her that there were apples in that car. And our people, we didn't have any word for apple because they think apples don't grow down here along the river. So. But my grandmother, Nellie Hanks, my mother's mother, knew what apples were, and we didn't have a word for it. So they coined the word applos. Sounds like apples. So it's apples. Applos. And my mother knew what apples were. So she was told that there were apples in the car and to go in and get some. And as soon as she got into the car, the back door, back, back seat, they slammed the door?on her and the lady, the man jumped in the car and whisked her away to the boarding school up here at Parker on the Mesa. And that was the beginning of her Indian boarding school experience.

Indian School

Later on in time the tribe and Colorado River Indian Tribes and the federal government. BIA they built another school down in the valley called the Parker Valley Indian School, eight miles south in the valley on Indian School Road, which is the road that I grew up on the East Indian School Road. And the school was three miles west of our home. And they used to bus us there, but I went to my first kindergarten and first grade, and they shut the school down. Okay. But all the Indian schools, all the Indians kids in Parker Valley went to that school. Okay, then. Then the county. Yuma County at that time is now La Paz County. La Paz County, but at that time it was Yuma County. They constructed the school. They converted the old Japanese internment camp?buildings called camp two down in Poston.

There were three camps down in the valley. Okay. And these are huge installations. So they got the prisoners to build the homes by using the local resources, the, the clay. And they built these nice facilities for residential purposes. And after the Japanese were removed from the area after the war they converted this to elementary school and they converted these living quarters into classrooms. And that's where they sent us all to our elementary school from first grade to eighth grade. And after that, you had to go to Parker High School in town. So. But when they shut that Indian school down, they created a dividing line on the reservation on a road called Burns Road.

So all the Indian students to the north of Burns Road had to go to Wallace Elementary School in Parker, and all the kids from Burns Road to the south had to go to La Parra Elementary School down in Poston at camp two, which is the La Parra Rebels. Yeah. Why rebels? But anyway, that that's the way it was. And then the schools I can recall the first Indian teacher at that Parker Valley Indian School that wasn't a boarding school then, And that old boarding school up in the mesa had closed down. Okay, so this is just like just a grade school. And just a few years ago, a friend of mine from Mexico, a professor at UC Riverside, she sent me some photos of indigenous students in Mexico standing at attention waiting to go to school. And she told me that the difference was between the United States and the Mexican government. Is the Mexican government allowed the indigenous people to stay and live at home and then go to the schools, but they still had to stand in line and more or less military style, but and but they were forced to school and that was the way of, of indoctrinating them and changing their culture from their indigenous language to the Spanish language. And that's why everybody in Mexico today speaks Spanish. So the Americans, I guess American government learned something from this and stopped taking the Indians from away from the homes.

And that's how Parker Valley Indian School was created. We were able to stay and live at home and go to this Indian school, and we weren't bused away. We weren't taken away, like to Carlisle or anything like things were done in the past, you know, it was a big, big difference, more sympathetic towards the Indians and our ways of life. But still, you know, it was it was a it was an Indian school and the Indian boarding schools were still in existence because we were poor my mother allowed my two older sisters to go to Indian High school, and they graduated from there in 19 about 1968 67. But they spend four years out there. And you know, we just didn't have enough money for all of our family. I had five sisters myself and my brother and my two cousins that my mother was taking care of.

So we had a house load and very limited money, resources. We had to work. And so that was a big help on my mother and our family, you know, allowed us, the young ones still left at home to eat. Okay. And then came the other transition after this, after the boarding school stuff was, was the destruction of Parker Valley. Honey Mesquite. Bosque. All the Parker Valley is part of the America's last great stand of the honey mesquite. And the tribe took action with full support of the BIA to develop all these lands. So now it's a thriving agricultural zone along the river with over 200,000 acres in a production that I helped destroy by desecrating some of these honey mesquite stands and cultural sites.

But you know that that was life with Parker Valley and the Indian boarding schools. There was still to the west of us Sherman Institute back then, then to the east, Phoenix Union High School and to the north in Nevada was Stuart Boarding School in Carson, Nevada. And this is where a lot of the Indian students from all the tribes went to, to these three schools from the southwest primarily. And it was funny because when I was going to Sherman, we were receiving students from back east and from Alaska Eskimos at Sherman. And that was different to me. But little did I know at the time that when the boarding school at Chemawa at Salem, Oregon, was open, they were receiving kids from all over the country. Alaska was one of the biggest states that were sending kids to that school. And that school has that huge cemetery with all these Indian students that were registered there. But there were also hundreds of other graves of Indian students buried outside of the cemetery. Which leaves me with a lot of questions in my mind of what really took place at this, at this school and why was the death rate so high. But, you know, that was just the beginning of what was being discovered up in Canada with the residential schools, but a lot of atrocities. Yeah.

Robert Lundahl

My friend, Adeline Smith, who is the elder who helped me create "Unconquering The Last Frontier" Film–The elders all worked to make sure that our team was able and including them as our team, we were able to make a film on the river and she went to Chemawa (indian School) from Port Angeles, Washington. And then when I was interviewing Jim LaBelle he informed me about Morningside, which was that area by Chemawa where they found all the bodies. And they've traced the families and the individuals to some extent and know where they went and where they died, apparently. So that story has been told to me also from the Alaskans and the Washingtonians.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah, yeah. They built a whole new school. They tore everything down just like they did at Sherman. You know, Sherman had those nice Spanish style buildings. And when I was going to school there, and before I left the school in '71, all of them were down except for what is now the museum. That's the only one of the only standing along with the shop buildings, the old shop buildings where they used to do training for welding and carpentry Entry and mill and cabinet and things like this. And that's where they're training them to be, working in industry and fine tune their skills. And they did. And they went out to work in the inner city of Los Angeles everywhere else. You know, but they went right into the melting pot. And that was the design of the federal government. And then all the relocation programs start taking place with the BIA and taking Indians from reservations and putting them into Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, and trying to further themselves, get education and whatnot. And the Indian relocation program and that and that was the genesis of the population of Indian in California.

That's why there's so many Indians came to California. The population is so high because they came and they stayed. Those went to Los Angeles for relocation. San Francisco, Sacramento, you know. They stayed and they raised their families, and they started forming all their own little groups and Indian clubs and whatnot. And when my sister was going to school at UCLA, she joined them. And, you know, she was an active sportsman, and she was active and interacting with all the other tribes out there in Los Angeles, befriending a lot of people similar to what I was doing at Sherman with all the other Indian students. And, you know, I had friends. I had friends from all over the country, different reservations. And I'm really happy about that because I got to know a lot of other cultures that I never would have known. You know, a lot of friends.

Rocket Fuel

Robert Lundahl

Well, we talked about the water flowing from Walker Lake underground, we think, and carrying the radionuclides and some of the perhaps the low level nuclear waste is, you know, one concern is from Yucca mountain, and we know about US Ecology.

So the river flows, it's underground, it's above ground. It's back underground. And you told me the story about the explosion in Las Vegas occurred in the 1980s that I actually witnessed and how that-wasn't it was perchlorate?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Right.

It let out a lot of perchlorate rocket fuel contamination that was, I believe, documented as going into the Colorado River and flowing down to Yuma. And there was a cartoon in the paper about the lettuce in the fields taking off like a rocket. The heads of lettuce, you know, rocketing up into the sky. Yeah. And you made the point that what goes in the river keeps going, you know. It goes into the Arizona Water Project, that goes into the canals, into San Diego, and it goes down the Colorado River all the way to Yuma. So I wanted to just quote you or try to quote you a little bit on this watershed. This big watershed?where water, water moves and we don't always see it.

And you mentioned that you, the Chemehuevi people had always gotten along well with the with the Quechan down south, and that you had preserved the Dream Trail?through your farm in testimony or recognition of the fact that these tribal groups basically got along and respected one another. So I started thinking of this whole watershed all the way down. You know, that we don't know much about. We don't always see, But it's in the drinking water here and there and Los Angeles and Lake Matthews and Tucson even.

And as I got that picture in my mind, I was really blown away. And I started talking to people about it, and they were blown away because, you know, the youth and the non-Native people think of it as a desert. They don't think of it as a series of habitats and watersheds?and areas where, you know, species grow and interact and thrive?and sustain themselves and where people sustain themselves and live?and have families.

And anyway, it was a different recognition. So I wanted to raise that about how this system connects people and communities and civilizations, tribes, people.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Back in the 60s. There was a release of reservoir over in Arizona, I believe mill tailings from the uranium mining. And it got into the Little Colorado River, which fed into the Colorado River Grand Canyon area. Well, you know, those contaminants were realized all the way here at Lake Havasu in this lake. You know, it was really the contamination was detected in this lake. Okay. And that was an alarm for me. But these latest things that start happening, that happen with the rocket fuel oxidizer ammonium perchlorate?that was being developed there at Henderson. And when that plant blew up. You know, even before that plant blew up, that retaining, that sump they had over there with all this contaminated water was already leaking into the aquifer, and it had already migrated all the way over to Las Vegas Wash.

All right. And even before the explosion, this was already leaking. You know how many years prior? I don't know, but it was already leaking into Las Vegas wash. Las Vegas Wash was already carrying sewage, treated sewage into Las Vegas Wash, which goes all the way to Lake Mead. Okay, just above the dam. And after the announcement came out of that and laughing at that cartoon of that farmer running off a field with a hole in his shoulder and his self, on the other hand, yelling, Houston, Houston, we have a problem. And all these heads of lettuce are shooting up in the sky, you know, from all this contaminated water flowing over to Yuma and being used to irrigate any of the crops, all the crops.

Okay, so that was the point is that, you know, it's getting into the food system. It could get into the food system and it did. It's like it got into the water system and it was that particular contaminant, along with probably the pharmaceuticals. They didn't really realize it was the pharmaceuticals also that were contaminating the lake. But in that area, biologists, fish biologists went in the area and they tested they did studies all around the area. They found that the fish were changing sexes or they were morphing from male to female or vice versa, you know, and that's what was happening.

So that whatever effects the contaminants are already reaching the ecosystem and all the aquaculture. And in my layperson mind, I see this water flowing through that dam, rushing down river from Hoover Dam, past Davis Dam, past Parker Dam, past Headgate Dam, all the way down to the Weir Dam, all the way down to Morelos Dam and all the way down to Mexico, but also Central Arizona Project, Metropolitan Water District and the All-American Canal, taking water east and west and people consuming this not knowing what is happening or the consequences of what can happen. For the contaminants being in their body, you know, there were no safe levels. There was no, no data line that that was established for safe levels of any of this crap back then. So they had to conjure up these safe levels of what is the what would what is safe to the human body? You know, hexavalent chromium?was one and chloride?was the other.

What’s in The Water?

But pharmaceuticals, I don't think they ever really researched that. But, you know, in their studies, they showed that it was detected all the way from point source all the way to San Diego and Yuma. I mean well, Yuma, of course, but Tucson and Central Arizona Project?and Metropolitan Water District. But of course, we all know that down by Yuma, there's the All-American Canal Now that takes Colorado River water all the way to Coachella for irrigation purposes and whatnot. So that gets into the food system also because you're getting crops.

But you mentioned about our relationship with the wetlands. I did some research and work with Doctor Trafzer when he was studying the Yuma Proving Grounds?for the Quechans?and for their cultural resources. And I told Doctor Trafzer that the Chemehuevis had always had a unique relationship with the Quechans and a friendship and alliance and how the Quechans allowed the Chemehuevi and the NuWu to trespass through their territory without any, any issues, you know.

So Kofa Mountains was one of the strongholds of the Chemehuevis. Very powerful place. And from there, all the way down to Yuma. But from Yuma, all the way up on the California side, there were Chemehuevi villages all the way to here at Siwaviits (Sp).

So our people were established all along the river and named a lot of the mountains over here in California with no names. But the Salt Song Trail?starts here along the Colorado River and the Bill Williams River.

And my route travels all the way up to northern Arizona and into Utah, and back down to Nevada and southern California, to the Mojave Desert from Mount Charleston south to Barstow, Twentynine Palms area and Salton Sea, and on the eastern side of Salton Sea, See the north side of the Salton Sea. There was a village there, and in Anza Borrego there was another village up there. So our people were established in all these different areas.

The Salt Song?trail went to the eastern part of the Salton Sea, and then it made a loop and to the south east and went eastward towards the Colorado River around the Chocolate, the Chocolate Mountains. So that's why it was important for us to be participate in the Chuckwalla Valley National Monument?as well as the Quechan National Monument?efforts because the Salt Song Trail?travels right through there.

But that trail goes by Chocolate Mountains all the way over to near the Colorado River and intersects with the Quechan Dream Trail, which covers the whole Colorado River. Okay. And it comes right through here. And the reservation. through our farm. But as far as that trail goes from that end, where intersects it comes north to the parking area at the Riverside Mountains. And that's where the song, that Salt Song crosses the river and goes to Houston, to the Screwbean Mesquite Mountains, then makes a loop back to the north, back to its point of origin. On the Bill Williams River at Avi (Unintelligable) the Rock House. And that's where the cave was.

That's where the song originated from. So, you know, we feel that, you know, all this entire area. And as my mother explained to me that the Salt Songs are the deed to the land. And she was very adamant about that and felt, you know, she's really strong in that. These songs are the deed to the land, you know, that's what holds this all together?and we were a major part of it. Through interacting with the other tribes. The interstate commerce or even international going to Mexico and whatnot.

But, you know, back in the day, our culture was very strong. The Uto-Aztecan were very strong, and they became divided and, and separated and that's why we're today, we're reaching out and reconnecting with other tribes like the Kawaiisu?all over, attached to the mountains, because we are one and the same people.

One and the Same

There are NuWu. You know, they go by a different name. And the Paiuchis?are our people in San Bernardino, but they go by Paiuchi.?Twenty Nine Palms Band, they go by Twenty Nine Palms Band. But there are NuWu. And same with the Chemehuevis at the Red Foot Committee. You know, they're our people. So they're all NuWu.

And we, we, you know, we're adamant about protecting the Mojave Desert. And this is why I called that meeting with our nemesis, Susan Kennedy, the other day, to talk about these issues and the importance of it to our people, and why we're so adamant about protecting the Mojave Desert and all these different natural resources, namely the water.

Robert Lundahl

Can you tell our listeners who Susan Kennedy is?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Pardon?

Robert Lundahl

Can you tell our listeners who is Susan Kennedy?

Selling Our Resource

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Oh, Susan Kennedy, she is she's a very smart, articulate woman. She is a CEO for what was called Cadiz Water, Inc. Now the Fenner Valley Water Company.?And but they're the proponent who is after water for marketing on, in Southern California and other places, and they've gained so much support that they're marketing water with promises of water to desert communities. And the issue is not over yet because the Native American Land Conservancy, a non-profit entity filed a lawsuit?against them, and it's pending in federal court.

But the these people are out for getting support from tribes and getting trying to get tribes to join their efforts and their water marketing scheme. And the whole issue is all about profiting and money and more so.

Robert Lundahl

So how did the meeting go?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Meeting went well. Better than expected. And I got what I wanted. And this was the burning question that I've had for a few years, and wanting to talk with her and to ask the question, and this question would be the title of a gathering a forum. What's the story with Cadiz??So I invited her. I asked her if I invited her to come to the reservation for a presentation and bring her cohorts and talk about what Cadiz is and what's going on. We would provide the venue here on the reservation, and we would invite the tribes to come and hear what she has to say, because I told her that, you know told her and her and her attorney that we view them as a zombie corporation?because they keep on morphing from one thing to another. And that's the attitude we have towards them. And we're not buying into what they're selling.

We're not going to give in on behalf of the Native American Land Conservancy, nor the Chemehuevi Indian Tribe and join forces with them. So we let them know straight forward that we're not supporting them.

And we've also filed a resolution in opposition?to the projects. So and I did let Susan know that there's going to be a movie?made. And I told her you're in it. And she looked at me stunned, with a stunned look.

And I said, regardless of your permission or not, you're in it because you're a part of this whole project in the Mojave Desert, from Ash Meadows down to the Salton Sea. And she didn't have nothing to say. So anyway, I wanted to talk to her about Creative FRONTLINE, but I didn't have time.

And she had her attorney there who was a good grief, something else. Smooth talker, fast talker, snake oil salesman, Blackfoot, Blackfoot Indian. And I don't know what else to say about him, but he's trying to convince the tribes to join forces with them, and he thinks that he's advocating it's beneficial and helpful to the tribes.

But in my opinion, they're struggling. They need help. As much help they can. And the tribes would help them and save them if the tribes joined them, because they're looking at water issues and water banking and tribal control. So they want to use the tribes. But overall, you know, what I was after was this. The question to ask is, would you come to a meeting? And she said yes. So I got what I wanted out of her. And we'll let the rest take place and unfold. And I've got some funding available for a venue, and it'll probably be within the next between now and January. So I'll keep you posted on that one.

Robert Lundahl

Well, that's quite a big story. You know, I have a friend and I'll tell you about my conversation with him, but he's a long time musician, Hollywood rock n roll and a very sensitive person, very progressive. Interesting. And he said, you know, this is amazing. It's the story. It's a story of American History?was how he put it. And he said. And it's the history of the West?that people don't fully understand.

Snake Oil

That's why I wanted to start at Walker Lake?and work all the way downstream. Downstream, downstream. And then you go sideways over to Riverside, and you could go sideways with the canals and the water and the people looking for jobs and the water supply for LA?and all this kind of thing. We're all connected.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

You know, there's so much going on, and it has far reaching effects. And what I told Susan is that, you know, when we first began our conversations, you know, this whole thing started with somebody over in France or England that that seen the satellite picture. But in my opinion. You know, it wasn't just something that he came across. It was something that was shown to him. Somebody directed him to see this somebody within this governmental structure in the United States of America keyed him in on it, them in on it. But they had a plan already.

And the plan was water. And you look at the time that this all took place. 1983, when the drought was really starting to come on strong and how everybody was thinking about water, you know, and. And they all of a sudden they see this and they see there's abundance of water and somebody directs them. Oh, yeah, you can make some money. So there it goes. You know, that's all it took was just that little spark of interest about money and profits and how legitimate it is. And look at what they're trying to hold on to. And now they're trying to get the tribes involved in this. Why do they want tribes involved in this? Except for our clout and our sovereignty and the way that the tribes can carry and the water issues. So they're manipulating the tribes. And this attorney he's that snake oil salesman. You know, he may have good intentions, but, you know, his mind and his philosophy is I'm going to make a buck off this

And I know he's making a six-figure salary from these people already, you know? So he's all about himself and his ego and what he can gain. It reminds me of our tribal attorney and his ego, and how he's used our tribe to bolster himself and tribal sovereignty and throw throwing his weight around. But that's what we deal with here on the home level tribal politics. And when legal people get involved in our in our tribal government by one means or another, intermarrying and whatnot, or marrying into the tribe. Yeah, they get carte blanche. They get special preferential treatment.

And people believe them, and they're like snake oil salesmen to our own people. But they're using the tribe to carry their message and for the support and legal support. The same thing people are doing. They're posturing themselves, getting ready for arguments because they're going to come. And the tribes have the biggest strength they can get onto. And people like Torres Martinez, you know, they we don't know their direct involvement, except they agreed to work with them and Cadiz has provided him some type of water services and waterproof air purification for their homes and whatnot, but they still haven't fulfilled their mission or obligation to provide water to the Cahuilla people or Torres Martinez. So they're kind of like creating like another BIA with all these false promises, and they're not doing anything. But, you know, initially they came on strong with them and TM joined right in. But I understand as of late they're having second thoughts.

Robert Lundahl

And Torres Martinez is a Cahuilla band. Correct?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah, the Desert Cahuilla.

Robert Lundahl

And they're down by Salton Sea.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Yeah. Salton Sea and they are. They knew that because the Chemehuevis intermarried with their people, too, and they right up on the hill. But Anza-Borrego, there was lives in a village up there, so they interacted with the movies quite a bit, and the two movies viewed the Cahuilla bands, all the different bands as like a sister tribe, you know. And we shared a lot in our cultures are almost identical. You know, our lifestyles, I think, are almost identical to the Cahuilla is.

And my mother said her father told her that he learned bird, singing bird songs?from the Cahuilla. And the reason why there was such a strong relationship that that started this was because of the 29 Palms Band moving down into Morongo and intermarrying with the Cahuillas. So that's why there are a lot of Chemehuevi areas and Serranos and whatnot.

Robert Lundahl

So, downstream?back to our story about the watershed and the people of the watershed. Now, we got as far as the Colorado River and Parker, and the traveling of the pollutants down to Yuma and the movement of the people, you know, south, east, and west to the cities. And now we're talking about Salton Sea. The Colorado River diverted itself over into the Salton Sea. In what? 1905, something like that. Yeah. So really, it's a part of the Colorado River ecosystem? Yeah. Periodically.

The Water and the People

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Well, even prior to that the Colorado I've been told that there was the river used to there used to be a river stream that came off branch off the Colorado River going On west somewhere south of the Nevada border that the and I think that may have been all the way down there at Chuckwalla Valley near Blythe. Now and all this, this, this probably all filled in after the second flood. Okay. And but geologically, over time, the Colorado River historically flowed from the Blythe area all the way to the west into Chuckwalla Valley. Okay. And I believe I believe that after the second flood, all that was came to an abrupt end. Okay. And all these basins were filled in. But I believe that river possibly flowed all the way around near Chiriaco summit and exit down at the Salton Sea.

Robert Lundahl

That would be, that would be what they call Ancient Lake Cahuilla.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, it flowed down below and exited down to the Gulf. And, you know, I was just watching the program this morning. The folks out there with these drones looking for the ghost ship, the ghost ship that is buried under the sand and everything. And they found it years ago. And, and indigenous people depicted this on the petroglyphs over in the mountains near San Diego. They depicted the photo and a drawing of that ship. And so it was there down by. It's south of desert El Centro, el Centro, California. Right.

And the ocean used to come up that far, you know. We think of time as just, you know, it just happened a long, long time ago. It wasn't all that long time ago. You know, a few hundred years back, maybe a thousand years back, for that matter. But, you know, the river had changed everything, the whole topography and the areas and as of last, you know, the river used to flow around by the Chocolate Mountains over into the Salton Sea and that flood. But all that would change after that. But the point, I think, is that all those areas were open areas. And if you really look at the area along the river from Parker, from Parker that was opening into the Gulf 10,000 plus years ago, that opened, Blythe wasn't there.

You know, that town of Blythe was there. That was all marshland, but from Parker the mesas on drop down to the valley 80ft, and from there down to the Colorado River, another 20ft and all the way down to the Gulf. You know, that's all drainage, that's all drainage area and river and geologic activity change things over time. And the water started moving in different directions. I was just explaining this to one of the nurses in Parker yesterday about the petroglyph I found at the Old Woman Mountains that shows the Colorado River. This is the biggest river map, Colorado River map I found. Okay. And it's 40 miles away from Colorado River. But it's so intricate that it shows the Bill Williams River, the Colorado River, and going down through Parker all the way down to the Gulf, but also shows the Gila River coming into that joining in. Okay. And but when the river goes down from where Parker Dam is down to Parker Valley and it drops below the mesa at the agency where that Indian school is. I told you about the river used to make a bend to the left there and stick to the mesa on the Arizona side. Then go all the way down and exit down by La Paz, down by Blythe.

And over time that's changed. Now the river flows straight and then it goes by big river and makes a big bend to the right. Okay. But back in the day, the river flowed wild. And once it hit the valley, it just dispersed like that and went all through the valley. But the main current was on primarily on the Arizona shore. And that petroglyph out at the Old Woman Mountain shows that. And I was saying, you know, that's a change in time that, you know, and I know where the river used to flow. And because the BIA and the tribes, they try to they did a diversion there. They took a whole bunch of old junk vehicles, cars and buses and stuff like this, and tossed them in the river to try to change the channel. And they did. They did. And all these vehicles are still in the, in the, in the river down there. But that's where the river used to make the bend. Okay.

And that is the site where the tribe put the preserve. It's a landmark preserve right now where they're restoring the land. And they have little lake backwaters back in there, but they're regrowing tribal indigenous trees, honey mesquite, screwbean, willows, cottonwoods and things like this, and trying to reforest their lands and one time and grow native foods and honey beans.

They grow and they harvest it. And they have a machine that processes it now. And anyway, that's my little story. It might take about the river and petroglyphs. And you know what?

How much that means to me and how it changed. And the Colorado River changed over time and naturally. But, you know, the dams had a lot to do with it all the way up seven dams on the Colorado River. And when I was talking to Susan Kennedy, I was trying to explain about all the sediment coming in. Is there any way to stop it? I said, my mind, I says the layperson, I would put a weir, a dam across the lake right here at Catfish Bay and slow the sediment down and try to find a way to remove it, because it's encroaching on the entire open body of the lake and pretty much just filling up the basin with sediment, thus reducing the amount of water that should actually be in this lake. Okay.

And that's my argument with your reclamation and Army Corps of Engineers that they hadn't taken into account all the sediment that's coming from upstream. And how detrimental is to the existence of this lake by displacing all that water that should be there?

Robert Lundahl

Well, again, you're reminding me of the Elwha River in Washington and what I learned about the filmmaking there. So two things that I learned are dams straighten out rivers, down beneath the dams. So the Lower Elwha Dam, with 4.5 miles, 4.7 miles from the sea, and all the spawning beds were gone because the river straightened out and flowed faster and removed all the gravel or a lot of the gravel. So that's why, you know, they were trying to preserve the salmon was because the spawning area was gone, and there was only 4.7 miles out of 75 miles of natural habitat left. Yeah, that's why they removed the dams. That's the biological reason.

There are a lot of political reasons and things like that. But basically that was part of the biology.

And yeah.

And up above the dams was an enormous amount of sediment. And in my film, one of the local people says, oh, you can never restore that river. You can never remove the dams, because what are you going to do with all the sediment? And he's an old timer and he says billions and billions of tons of sediment. Well, he was exaggerating a little bit, but that was one of the problems in the dam removal. What to do with the sediment and how to handle that as it moved downstream? Well, what happened was it did move downstream. It was managed in a series of releases that were done over time, and it eventually reformed the estuary and helped to recreate the marine life in the estuary, which is a natural breeding ground of species and a biological hotspot again, and that was restored just because they got the dams out of the way.

So with seven dams, you're talking about what happens between two of them or three of them and the amount of sediment backed up or coming down. And it's the same problem, it seems like. Yeah. How to manage that sediment?

Overdevelopment

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Well, you know, naturally it would, it would flow, flow all the way to the ocean and start filling up the Gulf. And I think if it had been if the river had been left alone, you know, that those things would have. Things would have been different for sure. You know, but we wouldn't have all these other issues that we're dealing with today. And if mankind had just been conscientious about their use of water and having respect for that water, you know where it comes from and how long it takes to get there. But, you know massive building, overdevelopment, overuse, abuse, waste, you know, all came with it and it's still going on today. That's the sad thing, is that it's going on from day to day, and nobody's trying to do nothing about it.

Robert Lundahl

Yeah. And removal of people.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yep. And you know, the natural, you know, this water if it flowed through, flush straight through. And that's why I use the analogy of, you know, like blood running through our veins. It's like Colorado River, you know, it branches out. And there are other tributary little veins that take Water or blood or other precious parts of our body. And the same with Colorado River. You know, it's either on the surface or beneath the surface, but, you know, it's helping Mother Earth survive and cleansing the Earth. You know, you take all this sediment and waste and and let it just let it deteriorate naturally and wash and cleanse the place. You know, the little creatures and the microorganisms are going to thrive on these things. And they do. But nowadays, you know, things aren't reaching the end source. And it's like in my body, you know, my vein is plugged up right here. It's going to create other problems upstream, you know. Same with the river system. Do we have to look at Mother Earth as a living thing and these waterways as veins in the body of Mother Earth? You know, it's got a clean cleanse itself, you know, and let the let things flow naturally.

But there's been so much disruption. So much disruption. Like, I was the point I was trying to make about the impact on Death Valley. You know, a man's footprint on that land. Sensitive land that, you know, once you step on it and come back, you know, and you bring others on it, it's going to come back and more and more and more. And by the same token, you know, you start taking water out. The land is going to drop create that void. And I'm trying to explain this to Susan Kennedy. Who was I talking to a wall. Oh, no. It's going to replenish itself. It's always going to be there. There's plenty of water to go around. So there may be for now. But once you get all these communities extracting water, you know that that aquifer will surely deplete. Oh, no no no no. So they're right. I'm wrong. And that that's the attitude.

Worlds Apart

Robert Lundahl

She has a good education. It's in marketing and it's in corporate executive policy and strategy. It's not in engineering. It's not in water policy. It's not in ecosystem management. It's not in water management. She's a she's a marketing person, essentially a good marketing person and a CEO, a C-level executive. But they are worlds apart. I mean, it took me eight years working on the Elwha River to start to get a clue of what a river was. And I had teachers, you know, I had my Elders, you know, who said, we'll teach you. You be a good student, but we'll teach you. That's why I'm talking to you. They said, Robert, take care of the water. When I left Washington. Take care of the water.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yep. Well, you know, one of my friends is coming this weekend from Tohono O'odham. He's a he's a traditional chief from the village of Saint Lucia down near Ajo. And once we met, you know, we hit it off. And the reason why he came here was to pray. To pray on the river. And that's how we met. And we hit it off, and we went down to the river, and we prayed together for the water, and we befriended one another. And he's been coming back since. But we've been learning from one another, you know, and which is good. And I'm introducing him to the world that I've been involved in for the past 40 years with land restoration, land protection, sacred sites, and protecting the waterways and things like this, you know, but also the name of our people, because that's my role, that's my obligation as an individual and as a traditional leader, you know, I've got to take care of not only myself, but everybody else around me. Best I can. Well, a lot of times I bite the bullet and do this, you know? But it's something I have to do.

Robert Lundahl

Well, you and I had a conversation about Ash Meadows, and we were talking about how to get, you know, people, the public interested in Ash Meadows, and you're talking about the voles, you know, the little voles. And we talked about the pupfish, how they're, you know, symbolic species. You know, that we've probably all heard about and read about in the LA times. And it's a very special place. And there's 28 endangered species there, I think, and something like 26 endemic species. So for those reasons, it's really a special place. It's an it's an example of maybe the way it once was in the river ecosystem and habitat and how things worked and succeeded. And you talked about your work with Native American Land Conservancy and the purchasing of certain springs to protect the water. And then you said Ash Meadows is a target for us. We'd like to go back to our traditional lands and offer some healing practices and work there. Can you talk about that a little bit? We're going to go around in a big circle now and come back to where we started. So how do you see it in the future at Ash Meadows and beyond?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Well as I mentioned before, you know, it's been an awakening for me these past two years. And educating myself about Ash Meadows, Indian Point, Amargosa Basin Beatty, Death Valley, Timbisha. Shoshone, Timbisha Shoshone who harbor the hot springs and you know it's such a powerful place that it keeps attracting me there. And the stories that I’m telling to my son and my family are exciting them. And what's really beautiful about that is that he has a girlfriend who is Southern Paiute, who is related to a lot of these folks up there, and not only in Southern Nevada, but Utah also. And Ash Meadows and all the little critters out there and that pika, the Pupfish. You know, it's one place that people know that these things are there, but there are so many other places out here in the country that people don't even know that there are other things out there, such as that tropical fish I told you about that I found here on the reservation. Nobody ever will ever see that, I believe. But yet I seen it. And Ash Meadows, you know was the village, the group of the northern Chemehuevi. They were known as the Northern Chemehuevi back in the day. And that is the group of our people that migrated south, the 29th band and what became the Chemehuevi Indian tribe.

Okay. But we originated from the area, and we had strong family ties with all the other Southern Paiute. And because that's who we are, we still know who, you know, Southern Paiute and what they referred to us as Jim waves or wave because of what the place that they already established here in Chemehuevi Valley, you know, they had been here before. And then they migrated throughout the whole area. But, you know, when the waves are going to different areas, they're going to visit family. They're going to visit family in Ash Meadows at the sorry, from Ash Meadows down to the New York Mountains, down to Paiute Springs, down to Bonanza Springs, down to the Old Woman Mountains. 29 Palms and the Oasis of Mara, you know, and then down to Coachella. They're all going to visit family. You know, our people weren't moving from place to place. They were traveling. That's why you'd have some waves. Who? We would be listed on a register here from one place, but yet they'd be interviewed in another place. And then there was confusion. Or where did you come from? You know I'm from all over. I'm here, I'm there. I'm everywhere, you know. And but that's why there was so much confusion about the numbers of Nuwus who resided in different areas, because they'd always be traveling from one point to another, and there was always to be with family, you know.

LandBack

But Ash Meadows is really important because in meeting Susan Sorrels, you know, it inspired me to, to learn more about our culture and, and going back to that book the southern history that my mother had given us. You know that adage that she wrote in there about the general locale of where our people originated from, but she didn't know exactly. And that's what I'm happy about. I found the place where we originated from and my tribal council. The Indian tribe, in working with Susan Sorrells and Friends of Amargosa Basin?are adamant about land back land back issue and especially about Chemehuevi Land Back?because our people became dispersed and after they moved out of the area and we're finally reconnecting, you know, we're sixth generation back and just finally reconnecting with where we came from.

But the Moapa band has members there that came from there also. So, you know, they're working with us and we're making cultural and family ties and now, through the Chemehuevi tribe, our efforts are to look at looking at getting some land back on for the for the Chemehuevis, in the name of the Chemehuevis. Okay. And at the time, I didn't know that before the tribe became a federally recognized tribe, that the Chemehuevis that were enrolled in Las Vegas with the Las Vegas Southern Paiute bands and were kicked out, that the Paiutes were sympathetic for the Chemehuevis, that they were looking for a place for their own, since they couldn't live with the Las Vegas Southern Paiute colony in Vegas anymore.

They wanted to live somewhere nearby so they can be closer to family in Las Vegas, where they grew up. See? But so they were looking at places like Ash Meadows, and the tribal government was working with them. Las Vegas was working with them to see about obtaining properties for them. But, you know, in time, in 1970, the tribe became the Indian tribe. We got our federal recognition, and those folks in Las Vegas who were enrolled with us were able to come here. And finally, until they got their issue settled, they started moving in the 80s, moving on to Las Vegas. But the point is that the Indian tribe, through our letter of support to the Amargosa Basin?and Amargosa Basin, was to look at securing lands for land back in the name of the Indian tribe, for our people, for residential purposes. So our people can go back if they want.

Robert Lundahl

Well, that would be a fitting resolution. You know, tracker's been using the words transformation, regeneration and reconciliation. What do you think of those? Are those good words to apply to that situation?

Reconciliation

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Yeah.

Excellent. Yeah. Reconciliation. You know, and you know, that's how I was looking at When I go into the story a few years ago, I worked with a Southern Paiute veteran, a Vietnam veteran in Las Vegas, and helped him go back to Vietnam to visit the battle place where they lost a lot of soldiers. They were ambushed. And it's a historic battle. In 1967. And but he had a chance to go back with some of his soldiers, his comrades and others, and about 30 of them. So I helped him go back, and I gave him gifts to leave there. So he took them and he and he went to the village site where that battle took place and, and that village and he said the Vietnamese had constructed the village had constructed a memorial of that battle there near, near the village. And they had a caretaker there. And they had all this memorabilia from that battle on both sides. And he went and he left the gifts that I bestowed upon him to leave a gourd rattle and an eagle feather from our people, from the new world. And he sang the taps crying tap song for the people. And the name of the organization was the Greatest Generation Foundation. And they helped fund the full travels for him. But he, you know, he canceled out on going because he couldn't find his birth certificate or whatever. Anyway, so he just cancelled out. He gave up and I told him, you gotta go, you gotta go.

You're representing us, you know? And we're talking about reconciliation and this, this is the time to do this. You know, it's. So you're the messenger. Do this thing. So I start raising the money for him and his tribal government. Got word of what I was doing, that they came up with all the money. So money that we raised from was a gift for him for his trip. And then the Moapa Tribal Council provided all the resources for his airfare and everything else, because he backed out from this trip that was already paid for, you know, because he couldn't find his paperwork. But he had an opportunity to go and he went and he represented our people well. But that was reconciliation that took place. And one of the colonels that I spoke to on the phone when we were after they came back, he sent me the video and stuff of what they did. And I before we stopped talking. I said that was really great, that Dalton was able to go over there and represent our people and reconcile with the Vietnamese?as the enemy. And I said, now it's time to bring that reconciliation home. And it shut him up. He didn't know what to say. And that's where we're at with reconciliation. You know, we're willing to reconcile. Is the rest of society ready to reconcile with us? Okay. We're giving up everything.

Robert Lundahl

Well, thanks. Pretty amazing, pretty amazing life. You know, here we're born a certain time, and we go through our lives, and we go to high school and we talk.

It's just an amazing life. And thank you so much for this story. It's multiple stories and how we have tied it all together on the river and the peoples and the species in the watershed and the water flowing, and it's all downstream, you know. It's downstream from a historical point, and maybe we'll get to it, a turning point in that transformation.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of a swimming and drain ditches. You know, this was the effluent water wastewater coming off of the agricultural fields that goes down into the aquifer, and that the water's got to go someplace. So they. In order for the crops to grow. So they put drain ditches throughout Parker Valley, which is there's the level of the irrigation canal. The main canal takes water to the other canals and goes into the fields away from the fields. The water goes down into the soil and there's too much water. It will damage the crop and hurt the crops. Kill the crops. So they need drainage.

So every so many miles they'd have these open canals of drainage or water will naturally flow from the ground aquifer into that and drain and exit ten miles away from where it came from into the Colorado River. And this is what Colorado River Indian Tribes was arguing for with the Bureau of Reclamation. The Army Corps is the credits that they should be receiving for recharging the Colorado River with Colorado River water, recharging it with the long term. The bad side about all these things with that type of drainage, all these chemicals that they put into the ground for growing things, it just flushing right through. A farmer could spend $20,000 on fertilizers and things like this, but as much water as they put in the ground, it just filters right through the ground, through the sediment, into the drain and on out. So my nephew is a farmer who has. 2000 acres in parkland that he farms.

He said he's just like pissing money away. You know, but you have to do that in order for your crops to grow. So. But you know all this. All this contaminants, chemicals that go into that drain, they all exit. And you got to figure all this. 200, 200,000 acres of agriculture in Parker Valley doing the same damn thing. You know all this? Contaminated water reaches the Colorado River and flows down south. Now, you mentioned earlier about the Marines who are suffering from skin issues and whatnot. Problems? This was happening in Yuma with the Marines, and you gotta imagine Fort Mojave. Colorado River, Indian Tribes and in the Yuma area.

Poisoned

Agriculture and all the chemicals that are going into that, that that water and what is in there and who is swimming in that water downstream. And you look at those poor soldiers who are unknowingly going into this contaminated water, trying to protect our country, but yet being poisoned and killed or whatever, you know, things happening to them. But, you know, all those people down south, you know that that's like a melting pot of everything. All the drainage goes to the lower end and it's all going down south to Mexico. And, you know, because of that treaty with America and Mexico that were to provide them with Colorado water, all we do. But, you know, we provide them with contaminated water and we don't care. The United States doesn't care because we got our use out of it. It's just like any other thing, you know, you use it and throw it away.

One Thing or Another

And that's the attitude of American is use and abuse. And reminds me of what I just heard on the TV the other day about some German Aristocrat who made a comment about the United States and about all being a bunch of drunks and whatnot. But that's America. You know, everybody's drunk on one thing or another, but that's America. And then you look at government, you see the same damn thing. That's true. You look at what our country was built on, you know, corruption, rum runners, slave runners. Even after slavery was abolished in Mexico and United States, it was still going on. And how they were trying to convert Indians into doing their dirty work and being successful. And, you know those days are gone. We're no slave no more.

No Slave No More

And we're not going to give up what we know and what we what we have. We share a lot. But you know, we're doing that to help humanity and we step out on the limb. A lot of us, we have to bite the bullet and what we do and say and suffer consequences from our own people. But I have to do it. And I have to say it because I'm an individual. I'm a leader, and I'm talking to you man to man. You're going to share this with the public. Great. They need to know if they need to know these things that are going on around them. And you're the catalyst.?Then you create a front line.

Robert Lundahl

Yeah. Well, you know, I wanted to be a documentary filmmaker when I was a kid, and I had no idea where it was going to lead. And, you know, from El Toro to the Colorado River, to Walker Lake, to ammonium perchlorate, to radioactive nuclides to the water supply of Los Angeles.

So, you know, I look at it the same way. I have this obligation. I mean, it's almost overwhelming. But, you know, I'm almost 70 years old, right? So, I mean, now's the time I got to tell the story with your with your help, I have to be the catalyst. Right. And so I just really appreciate that. That's a very, you know, deep thing. I mean, that's 40 years of my life working up to this.

Playing God

Matthew Leivas Sr.

You left out one thing things up here in the sky too. You mentioned about the things on the ground or on the earth, but you forgot to mention the things happening up in the sky with all the chemtrails and cloud seeding and, you know, man playing God and trying to convert the weather and take advantage of it. And they are? Yeah.

Robert Lundahl

You have a friend who saw that? I guess it was aluminum. Some aluminum substance that evaporates up to do cloud seeding. And you've actually seen those or he had actually seen those in various locations. Correct? Am I making sense?

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Well, it was iodine. Desert Research Institute?was shooting up. Silver Iodine.

Yes. That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. And they had these. It looked like the size of a shotgun shell. You know, the size of a shotgun shell. And now these. these little machines up there in the mountains play strategically. And they put this thing in there, and then they had to go off and takes a number of hours for it to, to disperse all what's in it. But, you know, all goes up into the sky and seeds the clouds and creates precipitation, either snow or sleet or rain or whatever, you know, but it does add water to the ecosystem. That's one thing that DRI?proved is that it is contributing to water to the ecosystem through the rainfall and snow. And they have it recorded. So that's what I'm interested in finding out their science.

Robert Lundahl

And there's a there's a topic for our next conversation.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Yeah. Maybe by that time I'll go to Barry and pay him a visit. But that's what I advise Susan. I'm going to go visit them and look at their records, because everybody's getting false readings or impressions about the weather and the amount of rainfall that can recharge Cadiz. I said, you're all getting false information, you know, because all this is man made by man playing God?and creating weather. And that's just the beginning of it, you know? The other thing is that this big contraptions up in Alaska and Argentina and trying to manipulate radio waves and change weather, manipulate weather, you know, there's things like this going on all around the country, not just by the United States, but all the other foreign countries, too.

Everything's happening around the world, you know, and people don't know what's going on from one side to the other, or one country is doing and the other, you know, but it's all contributing to what's happening in the world today. Look at the amount of rainfall down there in Texas right now. You know, nine inches within 24 hour period. Good grief. You know. Stunning. Yep. But it's just the beginning.

More to come.

Robert Lundahl

Well, thanks for your time and conversation, Matt.

Matthew Leivas Sr.

Sure thing. And hopefully I'll have something. A date set next time we talk with Susan. And it'll probably be between now and January. I'm saying probably November of a little meeting here or December. It's all depends on her schedule and my schedule, and if the team will be willing to let me do this on the reservation. Like I say, you know, and I told Susan this that there were a lot of people telling me not to meet with her and almost begging me not to meet with her. And I was I was shocked to hear that people thought I was going to accept money from her. My cohorts had pissed me off.

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