Don’t Make These Mistakes When Trying to Win New Customers

Our special guest today, David A. Fields, provides everything you need to build a more successful consulting firm. He is an expert in the business of consulting and is going to share some of his best stuff with us today. You don’t want to miss this one!

Join?Tim Fitzpatrick ?and?David A. Fields ?for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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Don’t Make These Mistakes When Trying to Win New Customers

Tim Fitzpatrick: Our special guest today provides everything you need to build a more successful consulting firm. He is an expert in the business of consulting, and he's going to share some of his best stuff. You do not want to miss this. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate revenue growth. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have with me David A. Fields from David A. Fields Consulting Group. David, welcome and thanks for taking the time.

David Fields: Thank you, Tim. Thank you for inviting me. And it's exciting to be here with you and to talk with you and all your listeners and watchers.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes. I can't wait to dig into some of these questions. Some of them are a little counterintuitive to what most people think, which I think always gets people thinking in a different direction, which is never a bad thing. But before we do that, I want to ask you some rapid fire questions to help us get to know you. Are you ready to rock?

David Fields: Okay. You shoot, and I'll wrap and answer as best I can.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay, cool. When you're not working, how do you like to spend your time?

David Fields: I like to spend my time, like most people, with their family. So my kids, they are grown, but I still like to spend time with them.

Tim Fitzpatrick: That's a good thing.

David Fields: Yeah. The teenage years, I would have had a different answer. But now they're adults.

Tim Fitzpatrick: What's your hidden talent?

David Fields: What's my hidden talent? Probably most folks wouldn't know that I sing, and I sing not just in the shower.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay, you sing well.

David Fields: I sing well. I sing well. You're not going to see me on The Voice or anything like that, but on stage in front of certain audiences, you might.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Cool. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

David Fields: That's a good one. Best piece of advice I've ever been given is can I give you two answers?

Tim Fitzpatrick: Absolutely.

David Fields: Okay. One answer is the relationship is more important than being right.

Tim Fitzpatrick: That's a good one.

David Fields: And the second, not completely unrelated, is give people a chance to put on their armor before you shoot them.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay. I've never heard that one. What's one thing about you that surprises people other than the fact that you sing?

David Fields: Well, all sorts of things surprise me or surprise people because people interact on Zoom now, and for whatever reason, apparently I give off a look that I'm tall. I'm not. So that surprises people in person. I've been a vegetarian for 35 years, I suppose, that sometimes surprises people.

Tim Fitzpatrick: That's a long time. Okay, so not to go down a huge rabbit hole, but what made you go vegetarian?

David Fields: Oh, that'll be a total rabbit hole. A total rabbit hole. Oh, my gosh. It's a silly story, and it involves being young, personal relationships and all of that. So I ended up being vegetarian and just never saw a reason to go back. I did not start off as an ethical vegetarian. Vegetarian for the same reasons, young people do many things to attract a mate. But over the years I've actually become an ethical vegetarian. It doesn't mean I need anybody else to be but that's. My kids were raised vegetarian. They've never had meat.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Wow. Dang cool. I love it. What does success mean to you?

David Fields: What does success mean to me? Relationship strength.

Tim Fitzpatrick: That's another good one. I've never heard that. Where's your happy place?

David Fields: Where's my happy place? My happy place is any place where I am learning. I'm a learning person. So give me a textbook and let me pick up some new topic and I'm just happy as I could be.

Tim Fitzpatrick: You and me both. My big driving force with Tony Robbins is growth. Right? When you look at the 6 human needs, mine is growth. So you're speaking my language. What qualities do you value in the people you spend time with?

David Fields: What qualities do I value? Probably some of the same things almost everybody values. Integrity and honesty and good ability to communicate. I do value people who are do somebody else's expression, batteries included, who are creating energy. Not sucking energy out of the room. Because we all have our own ways of sucking energy out of the room. It's better if we are around other people and we ourselves encourage each other to create energy.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So David, before we jump into these questions, tell us more about what you're doing, who you're working with.

David Fields: Okay, so my group, David A Fields Consulting Group, is very, very narrow. We work only with small consulting firms. That's it. And we help small consulting firms that are trying to achieve the next stage of growth or financial success. So it's very narrow. For that reason though, we're very deep and very good at it. We've at this point worked with somewhere between like we were looking the other day, 325 or 350 firms that we've directly worked with and helped build. And that's it. That's all we do.

Tim Fitzpatrick: What's small mean to you? How big are they?

David Fields: So we'll define small as almost anything below 100 million. We have a couple of clients larger, but really what it means the core tends to be firms that are 2 million trying to get to 5 million, 5 million trying to get to 10,000,000, 10 trying to get to 25. We work with even smaller than that. While we have programs for startups, we don't have one on one with startups. We do work with folks that are on their own six figures. So small can be very small and goes up to probably 25 million. Once it gets past 50 million, we do work for folks, but it's a little less interesting, no offense meant to any listener who's 100 million dollar firm.

Tim Fitzpatrick: No, thank you for sharing that. So I was surprised to read that you say consultants shouldn't differentiate. This is one of those questions counterintuitive to what a lot of people talk about. Why is that? And does it apply just to all industries or just consultants?

David Fields: Definitely does not apply to all industries. By training, before I fell into this, this is sort of my third lifetime, I'm actually a blue chip consumer products marketer. So like classically trained marketing person where differentiation is the holy grail. I was actually this goes back a century or so, but an advertising age magazine has a marketing 100 every year. I was in marketing 100 back when I was in consumer products, so died in the world differentiation is everything. However, in consulting, and I know many of the people watching are not necessarily consultants or their IT managed services, or perhaps engineering or accounting or attorneys. Professional services. I tend to speak from consulting because that's what I know. I think this will apply to almost all professional services. The way it's bought in customers perceptions is quite different from consumer products. When you go to a store shelf and you're looking for a toothpaste, you know that every box on the shelf will deliver on the basic promises. It's going to prevent cavities, it's going to freshen your breath. The basics are there. And therefore a toothpaste marketer has to find differentiation, find new ways, better ways to get you to buy their brand. Professional services that's not the case because every one of our buyers has had an experience where the basic promise has not been fulfilled. The project wasn't delivered or it wasn't delivered on time or on budget. And every executive who's been around for any period of time has hired a professional services firm and been disappointed. Therefore they're not looking for different. What they're looking for is a reliable, credible solution to their problem.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it.

David Fields: So can you differentiate by showing you are more reliable and you are more credible, that you have an approach that they can believe in? Yeah, but should you try to be new? New? Look, we're different in cutting edge generally? No, because that's not what our buyers are looking for. Does that make sense?

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes, it makes sense. So if I hear what you're saying correctly, they're not looking for different, they're looking for somebody that they can trust to do what they say they can do.

David Fields: Absolutely. It is a trust based business. We say there are six pillars of consulting success. Know, like trust, need, want, value. Okay. Know, like, trust, need, want, and value. Of those, the one that actually gets you selected, by far the most important pillar is trust. And we have all sorts of data and evidence anecdotes, but also hard data that shows that is the case. You must have all six pillars in place in order to win business. If any pillars not in place, you won't win it. But trust is what gets you selected over someone else.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. I love it. So you say that becoming the obvious choice for customers boils down to a single word discovery. Let's dig into that.

David Fields: Okay. Again, this is our business, perhaps different from others, so I can't speak for every type of business. What I will tell you is that when you understand your prospect better than any other provider, perhaps better than they understand themselves, it becomes easy to offer them a solution that makes you obvious. And it's because you understand them so deeply. That's why winning an engagement is not about what you propose. Winning engagement is about how well you understand your prospect. And it doesn't mean you have to make every solution bespoke. What it does mean is you have to show them you understand them and how you're addressing their concerns, addressing their fears, taking away roadblocks on the way to adopting your solution. Yeah, it's all about discovery. That's where winning business happens.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So when we talk about discovery, it's discovery before you even talk to them. Right. Just understanding who your ideal clients are. But then I'm also assuming it's the discovery as you communicate, as you get leads and you start to discover and have those conversations. Is that right?

David Fields: It's discovery about the individual. So, Tim, if you and I were calling or talking and you're saying, see, I don't know, should we use you? Should we not use you? Okay. It's me understanding you, understanding where you're trying to go, understanding what that means to you, understanding this is vitally important. And most people do not do this. Understanding what your fears are. Just because it happened yesterday, we had an inquiry two days ago and yesterday we had an inquiry in the afternoon from someone, I need help. Fine my team's super rapid response. We get him on the phone with me because the programs we offer don't suit him. I got on the phone with him and he says very nicely, quite transparently, look, I'm talking to three firms to potentially help us, and you're number three. So, like, I appreciate that he was willing to say that I don't waste my time. We closed the call and he said, you're number one, signed the next day. Now, that does not happen very often. You do not typically get clients who first inquire hadn't even read any of my books and signed, literally signed contract the next day. But the reason I went from number three to number one is I spent our entire conversation in discovery and he felt very well understood. That's part one. Part two is I showed we're an incredibly reliable, credible solution. The fact that he runs a management consulting firm and we've built hundreds of firms that look just like his makes us pretty credible.

Tim Fitzpatrick: A lot of consultants offer a free discovery call or free strategy call. And that is where they need to be focusing on discovering the right elements, yes?

David Fields: Yes. Those calls are often, so we don't offer free discovery calls.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I'm going to ask you that.

David Fields: No, we don't do that. We don't consult for free. I will offer some advice for free. If someone wants to get on the phone and talk for a few minutes and they feel like a few minutes of conversation all they need to solve their problem, they're not going to pay big dollars anyway. So I'm happy to help. Don't do a strategy session. I'll put in your quotes because a lot of these are thinly veiled sales calls. No, I don't believe that's the best way to sell our kinds of services. However, getting on the phone or in a conversation like you and I are having and not doing a thinly veiled sales call, but truly discovering what are your needs, where are you trying to go? And then saying you might say at the end, look, we might have a way to help, we might not have a way to help, but you can't presume upfront that you have a way to help. When I got on the call yesterday at five in the evening, from what I knew, from what my team had gathered, I looked scanned down. We didn't have a way to help because we didn't have a program that would fit, and we're kind of full. But I listened and said, you know what, here's an idea, here's what we could do. Completely based on what he was telling me. It's our number one rule, is consulting is not about you. Consulting is about them. Your prospects, your clients. When you make it about you, your offerings, your stock, you're done. But if you listen and make it about them, then you win business.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So you listened to what he had to say and proposed a solution that was exactly grounded in that conversation.

David Fields: Yes. Was not the solution he came in thinking he wanted. But that's different. It was a solution that once he saw it, he realized he needed.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it. I love that. So you don't recommend free discovery calls. So if you don't, how does that start? There's some type of conversation they're not paying for, right?

David Fields: No, I do recommend free discovery. What I don't recommend is the strategy sessions that are advertised as I'm going to give you lots of advice, but they really are thinly veiled sales calls.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it.

David Fields: To me, first of all, that's disingenuous. If you're in a selling situation and you can say you're in a selling situation, you can say, let's have a call. We called a context discussion I'm going to discover about you. And based on that, if it makes sense, I'll give you a proposal. As opposed to saying, well, you get this free strategy session, and then you go in and you're actually trying to set them up. They don't actually get strategy. All they get is, well, you need my help. Tim, if someone says, Look, I can't use you, I'm not in a position to use you, but I was hoping you could just answer a question for me. Okay. Okay, I'm happy to answer a question, but here's another question. Here's my third. Here's my fourth, and two weeks later, here's my fifth. Like, people pay for this. So now it's time to sign on.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, got it. I get the distinction you're making here. It's, hey, I can offer a free discovery call, but it's not positioned as something where you're going to get a ton of free advice. Let's discover whether we're a good fit to help you.

David Fields: Yeah. Because during a discovery call, I don't talk about what we do. We're very little. It's all just, tell me about you. And it's structured, but it's all about you.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, got it. I love it. So are there one, two mistakes you see your clients consistently making when they're trying to win new customers?

David Fields: Well, not after they've worked with us, of course.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, not after they've worked with you, but before.

David Fields: People make all sorts of mistakes. There's an enormous range of mistakes, most of which I have made also, by the way, people will often try to sell. I don't think we're in a selling business. Consulting, at least is not sold. Consulting is bought because people will hire a consultant. Or most professional services firms, when they have a problem that needs to be resolved, they have a symptom that needs to be alleviated, or they have an aspiration that they need to help achieved. So if they have a problem and you can help solve that problem, you can win business, but you can't create client problems. At least you're not supposed to create client problems. I don't think it's sold. So people who try to sell, that's the first mistake, and they make it about themselves. The common mistake I see among very kind of new folks, especially, and almost very common for folks who are sub 2 million is trying to broaden their market in order to win more, defining their customer target, well, we do this and this and this and this for these people, those people and the other people. Look, we help lumberman and opera singers, and what do you do? We help you. That's a big common error.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, got it. I love that. I see that all the time as well, right?

David Fields: Oh, yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick: And especially when you're thinking about, man, if you're sub 2 million and you're a consultant, you don't need that many customers to have a pretty thriving business, so there's no need to go abroad.

David Fields: Exactly. We tell people we read a program, and there'll be 20 people in the room. And I'll frequently say, consulting, I actually haven't looked this number up in a little bit, but so I'll fudge you a little bit. Consulting, you know, professional services is about one and a half trillion dollars a year just in the US. Just in the US. Which is enough for all of us in the room and probably at least like two or three other people who could get it. There's enough out there. You don't have to be super broad.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So with those companies that are sub 2 million, right. That maybe they're just starting out, what's the best thing they can do to quickly generate revenue?

David Fields: So for, like, someone who's just starting out, or someone who already has a little traction?

Tim Fitzpatrick: Because those are just starting out. Let's go there first.

David Fields: Okay, someone who's just starting out. Well, the thing you have to do, and this is true for everyone, is you have to be in touch with your network. You have to talk to the people who could potentially buy from you. Not to sell to them, just to be in contact with them and let them know what you're doing and get introductions to other people. You have to be in conversation. However, if you're just starting out, I would borrow business. Meaning I would subcontract. I would go to a staffing platform. Pick your favorite cadlamp, BTG, umbrex, graphite, 10x, Taptal. The list goes on and on and on. Not that it's easy to win, work on those, but put yourself in a position to at least bid on work. Start learning what works. Find other people who are doing what you do and do that. If you're completely stuck, I would take pro bono business, not from clients you should pay, but from nonprofits that you value, your local civic organization or religious institution or whatever, because then you will be working and work begets work. Then you're talking to a prospect and you're able to say, you know what, that's interesting, because on this other project I'm doing, there are some real similarities. And you're talking from a point of knowledge, of strength, of confidence. And it goes back to that very first thing we were talking about. What are the people looking for? They're looking for a credible, reliable solution. And because you can say, this other project I'm working on, like, oh, working on another project, must be someone else at least believes in you. That means maybe I can believe in you.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Got it.

David Fields: That's where I'd start.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love that. Thank you for that. I'm not sure why this popped into my head, but it did. So I'm going to go down this rabbithole.

David Fields: Go for it.

Tim Fitzpatrick: With consultants, you see some consultants that are doing they're doing very one off projects, super custom, and then others where it's very narrow. Right. They have set packages. This is specifically what I do. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think one is better than the other?

David Fields: One is better than? No, I don't think one is better than the other. I think they lend themselves to different types of markets, different types of firm owners. Usually you can't productize completely until you're sort of approaching that 2 million range. Usually, I mean, you can, but if you're consulting, you can offer products. There's a bazillion products and offers that are for small businesses and people create businesses. But in terms of consulting, it takes a little while to learn what is my consistent offering, what are my core offerings, what can I make repeatable? And then, you know, maybe maybe it's around 750 grand, a million dollars. You're, you're hopefully are getting to the point where you have that established up to about $2 million, where now you have it established, and other people can run those, and then we can really take off. Right. Going from two to five is really fun. There are about five paths to get to 2 million, and some include having more productized, more standardized offerings, and some are more bespoke. So I'm somewhat agnostic on that.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay, cool. Let's talk about perfect customers. Right. Ideal customers. A lot of people talk about describing your perfect customer. You actually recommend against that.

David Fields: That's a marketing thing. People love that. And it's a really fun navel gazing exercise. Really bluntly, I think it's a waste of time. And here's why. You could describe your perfect customer as the VP of Marketing at a Fortune 500 company. Congratulations, you've now described your perfect customer. Will that get the person to pick up the phone when you call? No. So it's a waste. The number one attribute of your perfect customer your perfect customer, Tim, my perfect customer and everybody who's listening. Your number one attribute is you can get into conversation with them. And in fact, that is so strongly the number one attribute that everything else falls out of that. For people who are new or relatively young in their business, that means your number one customer, your number one attribute, your perfect customer, are the people you probably already know. So rather than defining some hypothetical ideal that you may or may not be able to get into conversation with, just talk to the people you know and find out what their needs are and your customer will emerge. But to arbitrarily define it, I think it's silly because it doesn't make the customer appear and outbound marketing to the customer, which everybody wants to do because they magically think that will make leads happen. It happens in productized businesses. It does not happen as much in professional services and especially in consulting. The more trust based, the more bespoke you're offering, the less having some idealized fictional avatar is helpful.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I want to make sure I understand this. You're not saying you shouldn't narrow in on a specific type of market that you're going to serve. Right. That's a good thing. But trying to identify super specifically what that avatar is within that market. You believe is a waste of time. Did I get that?

David Fields: Yes, I believe it's a waste of time. So, yes, that's really smart of you to draw that distinction. You want to be as precise as you can with your target market. Okay. Our target is small consulting firms. Really? It's the owners of small consulting firms. Right? Okay. But people go to these descriptions of groups that they can't reach, and they're usually very broad descriptions. I want to talk with chief customer officers because I said it before, toothpaste manufacturers, and because of my background, I know a lot of toothpaste manufacturers and can get in there. And I've talked to great, because now your target is someone that you have contact with.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I get that. And so that's a really important distinction because I totally hear what you're saying. Having a super in depth customer avatar that you you can't target and find and then have a conversation with is a huge waste of time. But knowing the target market that you intend to reach and having that be pretty narrow in most cases is very important.

David Fields: Yes. Right. So I want to distinguish between this ideal customer, which tends to be an individual that you may not reach, and a target market, which should be very narrow, and a problem you solve, which also should be narrow. The more precise the target audience, the more leeway you have to be a little bit broader in your problem definition. Conversely, if you're extremely tight in the problem you solve, you can be a little bit broader in your sort of engineer market. I was talking to someone on Wednesday maybe, who has built a nice $5 million firm, lovely guy, all around neuro aesthetics and solving problems. I'm like, what the hell is neuro aesthetics? Right? It is so precise. But that anyone in any industry who's thinking about neuro aesthetics now, who thinks about it, I have no idea. But they're going to find this firm. Very precise problems.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I love that distinction. So I want to talk about your book before we wrap things up. It's in one of your books. You talk about the five marketing must. Which book is that?

David Fields: It's called the Irresistible Consultants Guide To Winning Clients. Okay. So listeners go into Amazon.com and search Guide To Winning Clients. It'll come up. It also happens to be the best selling, highest rated book in the category. So we got very fortunate on that one.

Tim Fitzpatrick: So let's talk about this five marketing must.

David Fields: Okay, so five marketing must, in no particular order, networking, writing, speaking, what's called trade associations, I'll come back to that in a moment, and digital presence. I may not give them the same order, but writing, speaking, networking, trade associations, digital presence. Those are your five marketing must. Of those five, one is absolutely mandatory, no options. And by the way, they overlap, they intersect. Because what we are doing is a digital presence version of speaking. Right. You are talking to your audience. It's the closest thing to being on stage, but digitally. Okay. So the one must marketing must, not optional, is networking. And networking does not mean glad handing, going to big things and handing out your business card, if people even do that kind of thing anymore. Networking means being in touch with other people, creating an opportunity to have conversations, to build relationships. If you have a relationship, you can have a conversation. If you have a conversation, an opportunity might appear. If you have an opportunity, you might win an engagement. So you must must network. Writing, the rest of them depend a little bit on what your sort of natural proclivities are, your natural talents are. If your knees knock anytime you're in front of an audience, you might not want to do speaking. Right? If you can't string together three words on paper, you might not want to do writing or you might want to hire a ghost writer. They all have their ups and downs. When I wrote the book, one of the five marketing must was trade associations. And all of these are there because we've seen this work, right. It's not just made up. It's because we have clients that meet each one of these work. If I were rewriting the book today, I would retitle that partnerships because trade associations are one really, really good example, very, very good example of partners. And the reasons are a great example. And the reason they work is if you are targeting the toothpaste industry and there's a toothpaste industry association, because there's an industry association for everything. They have your tribe, you can speak to that tribe, you can write for them, you can do everything and borrow that tribe. So that's it just happens to be a really good example of the broader theme of finding partners whose tribes you can borrow. But those are the five marketing must. Any combination of networking and at least one other will get you started.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, well, I see a lot of people from a marketing standpoint feeling like, gosh, there's so many different marketing channels today. Feeling like they have to be everywhere and you don't need very many marketing channels to build a very successful business.

David Fields: Yeah, that and again, at the core for our kind of business is networking. It's one on one conversation. The outbound has proven over and over to be unsuccessful. So the folks who are marketing to you, and hopefully I'm not stepping on your toes right now, but folks who are saying to your audience, let's do this outbound crazy email campaign or LinkedIn campaign or we'll give you 100 leads and funnels the businesses that succeed with that are businesses that sell that, right? I don't know if you remember this, dating myself, there was a book called The Secret that was a big rage for a while. And I always contended the Secret was writing the book The Secret because that's the person who made money from The Secret right? Was the author. The people who make money from online sales programs, for example, are people who sell online sales programs. And it's not that they're all bad. It's just for our kind of business, which is a trust based business. I haven't seen it work. So a lot of that you can let go by until you're a little bit bigger and then start experimenting. And there are ways to create a little bit of traction and just be in touch with people.

Tim Fitzpatrick: David, this has been a fantastic conversation. You've shared a ton of value. Any last minute thoughts, words of wisdom you want to leave us with today?

David Fields: Oh, my gosh, I actually love this. So I will talk about this business all day long. Any last word of wisdom? To me, the simplest concept that turns out to be hardest to put into practice is what we call right side of thinking. The business is not about you, it's about them. Constantly make it about them. It's very, very hard to do in practice, but if you the better you can do that, the more successful you're going to be.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I love that. It's talk about that all the time. Our customers, they don't they really don't care about us. They care about what we can help them accomplish. Right?

David Fields: Care about themselves. Yeah, absolutely right.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It was fantastic, man. You and I share a lot of the same thoughts. I guess I should say so. I love this. You've shared a ton of value. If people want to learn more about you, they've got a consulting firm they want to get to that next level. Where do they go? Where do they find you?

David Fields: Well, you're scrolling on the bottom there, it looks like, ,Davidafields.com That's the place to go. There's a contact form, bottom of every page. There's some sort of learn more. Our team is super responsive. Super responsive. So if people have a question, they should just reach out.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Awesome. I love it. So head on over to David A fields. He obviously knows what the hell he's talking about. Thank you so much. It was great to connect with you. Those of you that are watching, listening, I appreciate you as well. We covered a lot of ground today on all kinds of things, but a lot of it was centered around lead gen, target market, which are both revenue roadblocks that we help people remove. If you want to find out which roadblocks are in your way, head on over to Revenueroadblockscorecard.com. You can always connect with us as well over at rialtomarketing.com. David, thanks again. Thanks. For those that are watching and listening. Until next time, take care.

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Links From The Episode

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About the author,?Tim Fitzpatrick

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