Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion

Q & A with DEI Expert Lee Jourdan

We sat down with Keppler Speakers exclusive and Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion (DEI) expert Lee Jourdan to talk about:

- The Why's of DEI

- The ABC’s of Inclusivity

- 3 Things To Consider When Interviewing for a DEI Role

About Lee Jourdan

As Chevron’s Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer (CDIO), Lee Jourdan won the company industry-wide recognition as a diversity champion. At his prompting, Chevron became the first major oil and gas company to publicly share disaggregated demographic data — now nearly all of them do. In 2020, Business Insider named Lee to their list of "100 People Transforming Business in North America."

Now retired from Chevron, Lee speaks to companies, associations and nonprofit organizations and audiences around the country on Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion, and serves on multiple boards. He writes for and is frequently interviewed by publications such as The Washington Post, HR Digest, SHRM Online, the Harvard Business Review, and Business Insider. He also blogs regularly for HR and DEI leaders on LinkedIn, and you can find and follow his posts here.

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The Three Reasons Organizations Invest in DEI:

# 1: Altruism

Altruism is the act of doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Organizations that have been advancing diverse cultures prior to recent social tragedies were doing so because they wanted a culture where everyone had an opportunity to be successful. It was simply part of the company’s DNA. The problem with altruism is that if organizations do not identify and amplify the value that a diverse culture creates, then people who are not altruistically driven will see it as a waste of time. They don’t recognize the value that a diverse organization brings.

Altruism should be all the reason we need to create an equitable culture and an equitable society. But time and again we find it necessary to pass legislation forcing our citizenry to allow everyone to enjoy the same rights. To enjoy the same opportunity to succeed.

Reason # 2: Compliance

Which leads us to the second reason corporations are leaning into diversity, equity, and inclusion today – compliance. Whether it's investors, customers, employees, or listing agencies – stakeholders are demanding action. Organizations that were not moved by altruism and did not understand the business value, are now compelled at least to appear as though they are becoming more visibly diverse. Compliance does prompt action, but usually for the wrong reasons, and it can drive the wrong behavior, compelling us to meet minimum thresholds — “checking the box” behavior, if you will. It is not sustainable and does not bring out the best in us.

Reason # 3: Value Creation

Altruism and compliance will move the needle, but there are holes in those motivation arguments. There is a business case that transcends those holes. It is a narrative built around value creation. One example of that is how you are armed for the war for talent. The "Great Resignation" may have a shelf life, but the "Great Attrition" is here to stay.

Potential employees have become experts at diving into the diversity subsections of annual reports. They are looking for metrics that demonstrate the diversity of your organization. Again, it’s a signal that they will be welcome — or not. Not just being tolerated but valued. Heard. A diverse culture allows you to open the aperture on who you can recruit. Even if you are a small organization. One of the many jobs my dad held as he worked his way through college in the 1950s was a package delivery man in the Bay Area. The small company he worked for had three deliverymen: my dad, who was Black, a young man of Chinese descent, and a Caucasian man. The owner wanted one of each so that packages could be delivered in various communities. He saw the power of a diverse workforce, and the access it allowed.

And for large organizations, a diverse mindset means that you can have access to all employment pools, regardless of their ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, age, or anything that makes us diverse. And for organizations that really treat everyone equitably, they have more opportunity to recruit and develop the best employees in the market.

The best organizations will advance their culture because it's the right thing to do (Reason # 1) AND because it's the smart thing to do (Reason # 3).

So much depends on where an organization is on its journey.

The groups I speak to are sometimes those that have been working on and committed to diversity and inclusion for many years, and they’re already sharing the key demographics and data in a transparent way, they’re already proving that they’ve got consistent promotion rates between affinity groups — they’re really far along in their journey, and they’re just looking at what they can do next to make a difference internally but also externally in their communities.

On the other hand, there are groups that are just realizing how important it is. They’re getting asked about it by customers, employees and other stakeholders. Some of the biggest questions they have are “How do we start? What do I do?” And they just really need help creating strategies.

There’s an acronym I made up: FOSSS is the "Fear of Saying Something Stupid."

We all suffer from The Fear of Saying Something Stupid, and people wind up just doing nothing, right? Just freezing and not really stepping into the changes they need to make. So I like to talk to audiences about privilege and why we all have some level of privilege and use that to get people thinking beyond their fear of sounding stupid so that it’s a conversation that’s relevant for everyone.

I also like to talk to organizations about benchmarking where they’re at so they can understand where on the journey they are and what steps they need to take next to make progress and what things can move the needle most quickly, whether that is getting serious about publishing key metrics — not just demographics, but also things like attrition, promotion rates, or the leadership pipeline — to identify the greatest areas of need so that you know how to focus your efforts. To the extent that you can be transparent about those things, it aligns everyone around the same truth, and you wind up with a culture that feels — and is — inclusive.

A Different Kind of Work Culture

A lot of us grew up in a command-and-control environment, where leaders are saying “do what I tell you to do.” The boss is the boss, and the leader dictates what’s important without soliciting input from their team. That’s what inclusion is — soliciting that input.

To change the culture, there are specific behaviors leaders can take on. It’s important to “see” everyone. And to really listen. And to be comfortable providing feedback — to everybody.

We are all more comfortable providing feedback to some people rather than others. And so how do you get to where you're comfortable providing feedback to people you don't normally engage with, or people who are different than you? How do you make sure you're giving them the feedback that they need?

So, it’s listening differently than you did before, and encouraging people to give you feedback — and then listening closely to what they say. If you want people to be authentic coming to work, you need to be authentic too, even if that means sharing a side of yourself that you’re not necessarily comfortable with.

And that leads to the last thing I often talk about — which is vulnerability. As a leader, it's important to demonstrate vulnerability. And I have some examples I use when I speak, of how that opens up conversations you didn't have before.

There is work involved in changing a culture — it's not going to happen by itself.

If you are in a DEI role, you will need to be willing to challenge those on your leadership team to do those things. And then those attitudes and changes will cascade throughout the organization.

Three Tips on Interviewing for a DEI Role

First off, you want to know what the company’s why is. If it’s a combination of altruism and the business case, great. If their primary reason is compliance — be wary. Ask questions that give you a sense of whether the CEO is on board and is the voice of change, or if those topics have been delegated to HR or another team to handle.

Which brings us to tip number two. It’s critical to have the CEO’s buy in. The CEO doesn’t have to do a lot, but whatever they do and when they talk about it, they have to mean it when they say that it’s a priority for the company. If it isn’t authentic, people see through it, and they’re just going to check the box and it will feel like a burden. But if the CEO has a voice around it and they are clearly on board, everyone else will be, too — because that means it’s important for the success of the organization.

The other tip I often give is for candidates to ask to speak with two additional key players as part of a final interview process: the director of communications and the head of legal — because those are two of the most important relationships you will have, and you need to know what their take on the role is and get a sense of whether you’ll be able to work closely with them. As with most important things — if you are in a DEI role — you can’t do it alone.

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Lee Jourdan retired as Chevron’s chief diversity and inclusion officer in 2021. He now serves on multiple boards and speaks to audiences around the country. Watch him in action and learn more about him here.

Lee also blogs regularly for Human Resources and DEI leaders and teams on LinkedIn, and you can find and follow his posts here.

For Further Reading: Media by or about Lee Jourdan

Read more about Lee in the stories at these links: The Washington Post, HR Digest, SHRM Online, the Harvard Business Review and Business Insider.

Invite Lee Jourdan to speak at your next event here.