David Brown talks about the unique opportunities for audio storytelling, and we're about to get creative

"Audio is the most intimate medium there is, because we all yearn to be a part of community, we all yearn to make real human connections." In this week's You've Got This, award-winning public radio journalist, lawyer and business podcaster David Brown of "Business Wars" and "WeCrashed" discussed what it is that makes audio storytelling so special, how to improve your podcasting skills, his gear recommendations for capturing the best sound, and how radio journalism has changed over the years. Don't miss his incredible answers below - and be sure to check out our next guest, author and VP of Product Design at Hulu John Couch.

Victoria: "It seems like everything in your career - from DJ to documentarian to cultural journalism to biographer - has been within the audio world. Why do you think audio continues to be such a vibrant and relevant medium? And how have you been able to bring audience and community into your work and along with you on the journey?"

David: "Boy, that’s a great question, and also pretty complicated too. Why audio? Especially in a world where it seems like some people prefer to get their information in a Tweet, why does longform audio do so well? It’s certainly been a thread throughout my career. I wish I could say that I completely understood the dimensions of this, but it took a long time before I realized what was going on. I just love telling stories. It's a passion.

Audio is the most intimate medium there is, because we all yearn to be a part of community, we all yearn to make real human connections. And you can do that through the written word, or visual media as well, but quite often, you’re being guided to see what the director’s vision is, or what the visual communicator’s idea is. And with the written word, there’s a lack of human intimacy that audio brings, where someone’s literally talking into your ear. 

 "We have a saying: the picture’s better on radio (or, by extension, on the podcast). And the way I think of that is we bring our own experience to what we hear in other people’s voices. We hear the timbre, the color, the phrasing, the pauses in people’s voices. We hear things that aren’t necessarily said. And that sort of invites the listener in a little bit more. You feel the story."

You become part of it. It’s part of the storytelling tradition, as old as the very first conversation, people sitting around and sharing stories. There’s something primordial that audio hits as well. If you’d have asked me 20, 25 years ago whether I thought we’d be in a golden age of storytelling in the 21st century, I’m not sure I would have believed it. But I think if anything what the digital era has done is make audio content more accessible than ever before. And it’s brought a lot of new voices to the table. We’re living in the most exciting period for audio and the craft of storytelling for the ear in history. 

 And for community, I think the moment you start to talk with someone, people can form a bond with you. And when you’re talking with a whole lot of people, that becomes a quasi-community. Here in Texas, people are really proud of their Texan-ness. And that’s a fun thing to play off of. For the Texas Standard (on public radio), we do a news show, but we collaborate with stations around the state, and it’s a huge state - the economy is the 10th largest in the world. (Texas is bigger than France!) So it really feels like you’re in another country. But even within that country, you have these pockets of real characters, real prominent, distinct personalities with distinctive voices. West Texas is its own place, so different from the Piney Woods, Houston, or Dallas. So part of what’s fun about doing the Texas Standard is creating community out of a whole bunch of communities. Just by sharing stories. 

I think it’s a different thing with Business Wars and Business Wars Daily. And I wasn’t expecting this either: a lot of listeners connect through LinkedIn, to me directly. We seem to have a real big following in India, Australia as well, the United States of course. And listeners will say they’ve been inspired by something they’ve heard, and I’ve heard from a lot of people who have wanted to start their own podcasts thanks to Business Wars. So it’s not exaggerating to say there’s a sense of community on LinkedIn (that's grown up around Business Wars).  For me, Business Wars is fun because I’m a business news junkie. I used to be with the public radio program Marketplace. We had an understanding that business news wasn’t just Wall Street. When we "did the numbers", the whole idea was that there are people behind these stories, and that’s what makes business so much fun. Ask any CEO: it’s about that human process of trying to do something different and big and bold. Affecting change, making things better. Or just going after "the other guy"! For me, Business Wars has it all: it’s got my love of stories, of business, of how people stretch reality to make their dreams come true, sometimes changing the world in the process. It’s just a blast to do!"

Victoria: "For someone who's just getting started listening in audio storytelling, what advice would you have?"

David: "That’s a good question. I think if I was just starting in audio storytelling, I’d begin by listening to something I personally like, and consider why that appeals to me. For some people, it’s a particular presenter’s style. For other people, it’s the way a story is opened up, or laid out. If you think about what it is you enjoy listening to in your favorite podcasts, what you find is quite often, a development to the narrative that raises the curtain one little fragment at a time. And each time that happens, the listener is left asking the question “And then, what?”

 Remember when you were a kid: "Once upon a time”? All good stories begin with that, either literally or by implication. How can you begin your story without saying that, and then propel that narrative through?

It’s hard to do writing on a page, for the eye. If you're interested in learning the style of writing for the ear, try speaking aloud, maybe have it transcribed by a transcription app, and look at how you speak.  We don’t really speak in complete or perfect sentences, as a rule… we speak in bursts of ideas. Like I just did. We take long pauses, so the brain can settle on an idea. When you’re crafting your story, think about how you’d be telling your story to someone you really care about. Picture them: are they still listening to you? What will it take to get them back, if you lost ‘em?

It’s a fun process and a hard one. It’s a skill you can develop over time. And practice, practice, practice. Tell a story you’re familiar with to a hypothetical listener on your smartphone recorder. And listen back. How does it sound? Is it moving? Compelling? Does it make you want to know "what happens next?" We have so many tools nowadays to rehearse and get good at the storytelling art. The hardest thing is to get ourselves out of the way, and let our voices be in service to the story. "

From LinkedIn senior editor at large and host of Hello Monday Jessi Hempel: "I'd love David's thoughts on how the more recent rise of podcasting has changed the nature of radio journalism, if at all?"

David: "Really interesting question. Radio journalism today isn’t what it was 10 or even 15 years ago. The industry has changed. Right now, the only real journalism you get on the radio is on public radio. (Commercial radio has many current affairs or political talk shows, but not much long form hard news.) And the best radio reporters are largely using techniques that were first elaborated and developed going all the way back to the 1930s, the first golden age of radio. And then they were picked up, and transformed, by some of the greats in public radio, as it sort of morphed through the 70s and 80s. And a lot of that language was further refined by Ira Glass on This American Life. There’s a whole generation who discovered a particular storytelling style - Ira’s style - and began to try to emulate that in early podcasting, and certainly in public radio around 2004, 2005. When podcasting began to take off, the first voice of podcasting was very much a “This American Life” sound. And it includes the use of music, which, by the way, used to be verboten in "serious journalism"; not that long ago you’d never want to use music in journalism, it was seen as coloring the editorial content too much. Now you do hear music as part of a storytelling narrative. Also, there's the use of long pauses, the use of stammers, the narrator questioning his or her own delivery. You can hear that self-doubt. 

It was never that way in the early days of the radio journalism: reporters were the voice of authority, they were never showing doubt or questioning their own perceptions out loud like that. Now the delivery is much more human, and I like that, as long as it’s genuine. People can hear artificiality. 

I suppose in the same way that radio informed the early days of podcasting, podcasting is having an effect on radio, in the sense that when people listen to a public radio news program, they don’t necessarily expect it to be “all the news that's fit to print, all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted with no coloration, whatsoever”. Nowadays, many listeners want to hear the personality behind the delivery of the news.

On another level, I’m not sure if that’s a good thing for journalism. I know it’s a good thing for storytelling. It’s definitely a plus for storytelling. But most people don’t have an expectation that podcasting is "capital-J" journalism. On the other hand, I think there's a role that "capital-J" journalism serves --and I think there's still a need there: it’s more important for a reporter to get themselves out of the way, and just tell the facts, maybe now more than ever. It gets to whether we can trust our institutions to serve the public more than the reporter's own ambitions or brand. 

 So do I think podcasting’s had an effect on journalism? Yes I do. Do I think it’s completely a good effect? Jury’s still out on that one. Five or ten years from now, maybe we’ll have a better idea. And I think the role of journalism in American Democracy is so sacred, it should really be protected. Not stylistically so much, but we should go out of our way to ensure that we’re taking care to strain as much opinion out of our journalism as we can. It’s a hard thing to do, you can never do it in an absolute sense - - but it’s worth trying hard to do it to the best of our ability." 

From founder and podcaster Jay Clouse: "What lessons has David learned in radio that have best translated to podcasting? And to be more specific, what might a podcaster misunderstand about audio that is obvious to a radio veteran?"

David: "Well, I can think of a couple of things. First of all, quite often, one of the great things about podcasting is it’s a very democratic institution. The barriers to entry are so low, and there are so many podcasts out there with great high quality content. But quite often we mistake high quality as all that's necessary for a successful podcast, and that’s not the case. Great content - first rate presentation is crucial, you’re competing with 900,000 podcasts out there, but if you’re making content and nobody’s listening, you have to ask “who is this for?” And "how do I get it to them"? So I think this is the part some podcasters have difficulty accepting: successful podcasting means marketing. It just does. In radio, you can’t turn on that transmitter unless you have ads - - or some kind of financial support -- behind you. 

It's hard to get the marketing part right, but it's essential. There are things you can do: for instance, you can find a podcast you like, turn on that particular podcaster to your podcast, and propose doing a host exchange for a show or two. That’s a great way to let the podcast audience for another show discover your show, and it doesn’t cost you anything. Straight up advertising or buying ad time on another podcast that you think would appeal to your listeners is another strategy. Don’t think narrowly. Think broadly about who your audience is. And talk to your audience. Make sure everything you say has your audience in mind. As you’re doing your podcast, you’re making a presentation. In a podcast you’ll often be in a closet, but you need to have your audience in the room with you (metaphorically), the same way you would if you were broadcasting in a studio looking out on your city. 

Your audience is your community. Have a conversation with them. Invite comments, and feedback, and take that feedback seriously, because your listeners will help you grow and shape the sound of your podcast. 

From programmer and educator Rob Mowry: "Do you see the syndication of podcasts onto public, commercial or satellite radio being a movement for more broad-based general-interest topics?"

David: "I like that idea. I really do. "I don’t know" is the short answer. Though it certainly makes sense, doesn't it? It seems to be a no-brainer to have a satellite radio station with top podcasts from Wondery, for example, no? It could be another way to distribute and reach more ears. I think we’re already seeing, at some public radio stations for example, their own curation of podcasts, broadcasting those podcasts, and then directing people to the website for these podcasts. That’s another terrific distribution model: try to get the program director at a local public radio station to broadcast your podcast. That would be spectacular, and I know it’s happening in some markets. 

I guess the answer is there will surely be other platforms that will emerge for podcasting. And we’re already seeing it. When I started listening to Spotify, it was the way I was discovered cool indie music, but now it’s become a major force in podcasting, a terrific place to discover new podcasts. I guess that’s inevitable right? If there are places where water can flow, water will find it. And I see no reason why that won’t continue to grow. I know the long-tail effect and political polarization suggest ever greater specialization, but we're already seeing more broad-based podcasts centered around interesting personalities exploring a range of topics. I hope that continues."

From podcast host Scott E. Burgess: "Would also like to know what equipment specs for perfecting audio, since audio in podcasting is King!"

David: "I have a few things that are essential tools. A couple of things: you can’t go cheap on any of your equipment. When you buy a microphone, get the best microphone you can. The one I found that works best for me is the Rode Broadcaster from Australia. They do make another mic, called the Podcaster, but I’ll tell you it’s been my experience that finding equipment that’s used on the radio side of things, tends to be money better spent, in my experience, because it’s stood the test of time. Meanwhile there’s a lot of stuff sold to podcasters who are interested in trying out podcasting, but it’s not as time-tested as the radio stuff. I haven’t heard any complaints about the Rode microphone. Some people swear by the Shure 57. It’s a good mic, no question. And there are other broadcast-quality mics out there. But I think you’re looking for warmth and clarity. And for my money, even though it’s about $400, the Rode Broadcaster is one of the best. Get grounded (or shielded) cables - you don’t want to go cheap with cables. You can get proper professional quality cables at any music store. Get a good length of cable, make sure it’s XLR, and you want it to run from your microphone to a separate pre-amp. You have to have a separate pre-amp. Generally speaking, you can’t just get away with plugging directly into your computer. You'll get audio, but it won't necessarily sound professional-quality. And if you have a separate pre-amp, it gives you a lot of flexibility with mixing things, and a much better sense of what the sound is like for the listener, because most have a separate headphone amplifier built-in. But what’s more is you’re going to get a clear signal from that pre-amp. It will be boosted, it will be contoured for input (in this case, voice), and you’ll get a clear, low-noise sound. 

And then typically you run from a pre-amp into a USB of your laptop or desktop. Use a modern computer for this reason: you want the latest software. I use Adobe Audition as my audio recording and editing software. I subscribe to Adobe's cloud service. You can do it with cheaper software, but it's the state of the art. If you're a photographer, I'm sure you could get away without Photoshop, and there are probably more powerful programs out there, but it's an important tool. I think of Audition in the same way. That’s not to say there aren’t other great products, there are. But I’d recommend getting the best of what broadcasters use. Because it will be SOLID for your work in podcasting. Also: get sound isolation. Find a closet, layer it with blankets, get it as dead in there as you can. Sound isolation is crucial, you have to record your tracks with clean audio. 

What happens after I record my tracks: that’s second level stuff. For instance, we have a sound designer in San Francisco who adds in sound effects and music. And with music, that brings up rights issues - you have to be mindful to get original music written up for you and everything. 

Now if you’re going to make this move, don’t skimp. Decide this will be an investment. And use that investment. Quite often people will be excited about the start of a podcast, they’ll get 5-6 episodes in, then they'll find they're not getting the click-throughs they hoped for. But once you’ve committed, you need to stick with it, be consistent and prolific, keep those episodes coming, and be an evangelist for your program. (I know I am!) I’m always bragging about the work we do for Business Wars and Business Wars Daily and WeCrashed. That excitement is infectious. Stick with it and be prolific. And be open to feedback. It will be one of the most exciting adventures you will ever undertake.  (I can't wait to hear your podcast!)"

Follow David on LinkedIn.

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Next week's guest: John Couch

I'm very much looking forward to our next guest on You've Got This, VP of Product Design at Hulu and author of “The Art of Creative Rebellion” John Couch. I first got to know John after discovering his articles and writing here on LinkedIn. With an eclectic background of experience ranging from WIRED magazine to The Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA), CBS to eBay, and now Hulu, here's what I'll be asking John:

• You discuss in your book the need for a "a space to create," as "the environment in which you work affects you." For those whose work routine has been disrupted by recent events to now be working from home, what advice would you have to help elevate your overall space to create, especially if it's crowded, noisy, or challenging?
• With streaming media being top of mind with so many people right now, and your extensive background with other pivotal design experiences, how does it feel to be able to help others navigate and discover content?
• The most in-demand skill that companies need most, as uncovered by LinkedIn research, was (and continues to be) creativity. What are some simple steps someone can take to enhance their creativity day to day?

I encourage you to ask your questions below, and thank you for reading!