David Bohm and Jiddu Krishnamurti: Dialogues on Consciousness, Fragmentation, and the Holomovement
Martin Ciupa
AI Entrepreneur. Keynote Speaker, Interests in: AI/Cybernetics, Physics, Consciousness Studies/Neuroscience, Philosophy: Ethics/Ontology/Maths/Science. Poetry, Life and Love.
Following my related article on David Bohm and my research into Quantum Foundations, I did some follow-up on his conversations with Jiddu Krishnamurti:
Here is a video on their dialogue on Intelligence… https://youtu.be/tIcFiw_bjt8
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Title: David Bohm and Jiddu Krishnamurti: Dialogues on Consciousness, Fragmentation, and the Holomovement
Abstract
The dialogues between David Bohm, a theoretical physicist, and Jiddu Krishnamurti, a spiritual teacher, represent a unique intersection of science and spirituality. These conversations explored the nature of thought, consciousness, and reality, focusing on the mind’s tendency toward fragmentation and the possibility of perceiving a more profound, unified order of existence. Bohm’s concept of the holomovement, a dynamic process underlying all phenomena, served as a bridge between their perspectives. This paper examines their discussions on thought and fragmentation, meditative awareness, and the potential for direct perception of the implicate order. It concludes with a reflection on the relevance of their ideas for contemporary debates in philosophy, neuroscience, and spirituality.
1. Introduction
David Bohm (1917–1992) and Jiddu Krishnamurti (1895–1986) engaged in profound dialogues that bridged theoretical physics and spiritual inquiry. Bohm’s concept of the holomovement, representing the dynamic wholeness of reality, resonated with Krishnamurti’s emphasis on unity and the limitations of thought. These discussions focused on key themes, including the fragmentation of thought and the possibility of perceiving reality beyond cognitive constructs.
This paper explores the implications of these dialogues, focusing on:
1. Thought and fragmentation.
2. Meditative awareness and direct perception of the implicate order.
3. Broader implications for science, spirituality, and consciousness studies.
2. Thought and Fragmentation
Bohm and Krishnamurti identified the mind’s tendency to fragment reality as a central issue in human experience.
2.1 The Nature of Fragmentation
? Bohm argued that thought inherently divides reality into discrete parts, such as subject vs. object or self vs. world, creating an illusion of separation [1].
? Krishnamurti emphasized that this fragmentation is a source of internal and external conflict as it obscures the fundamental unity of existence [2].
2.2 Implications for Consciousness
? The fragmentation of thought limits our ability to perceive the holomovement, which Bohm described as an undivided flow underlying all phenomena [3].
? Both thinkers suggested that overcoming this fragmentation requires a shift in perception, moving beyond the cognitive structures that perpetuate division.
3. Meditative Awareness and the Implicate Order
Bohm and Krishnamurti explored the possibility of perceiving the implicate order—a deeper, enfolded reality—through meditative awareness.
3.1 Limitations of Thought
? Bohm argued that thought, while useful for practical purposes, cannot grasp the implicate order because it operates within the explicate order of discrete phenomena [4].
? Krishnamurti similarly critiqued thought as inherently conditioned and unable to access the unconditioned reality he associated with spiritual insight [5].
3.2 Meditative Awareness as a Pathway
? Krishnamurti proposed that meditative awareness—a state of observation free from judgment or conceptualization—allows for a direct perception of reality beyond thought [6].
? Bohm agreed, suggesting that meditative awareness could reveal the implicate order by bypassing the fragmenting tendencies of thought. This aligns with his view of consciousness as an enfolding and unfolding process within the holomovement [7].
3.3 Unity and the Observer
? Both thinkers emphasized that meditative awareness dissolves the division between the observer and the observed, enabling a direct experience of the interconnectedness inherent in the holomovement [8].
? This perspective echoes non-dual spiritual traditions, which describe the dissolution of egoic boundaries as a pathway to understanding the unity of existence [9].
4. Broader Implications
4.1 For Science
? Bohm’s insights into fragmentation have parallels in neuroscience, particularly in studying how the brain constructs models of reality through discrete representations [10].
? The concept of meditative awareness aligns with research on mindfulness and its effects on brain function, particularly in reducing cognitive biases and fostering holistic perception [11].
4.2 For Spirituality
? Krishnamurti’s emphasis on direct perception resonates with mystical traditions that advocate for transcending thought to experience the divine or ultimate reality [12].
? Bohm’s holomovement provides a scientific framework that complements these spiritual ideas, offering a way to conceptualize unity without resorting to dogma [13].
4.3 For Consciousness Studies
? The dialogues suggest a model of consciousness that integrates cognitive processes (fragmentation) with a deeper, non-local awareness (implicate order) [14].
? This dual perspective challenges reductionist approaches and invites interdisciplinary research into the nature of awareness and its connection to the physical universe [15].
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5. Proposed Future Research
5.1 Experimental Investigations
? Neuroscience of Fragmentation: Investigate how the brain’s default mode network (DMN) and other systems contribute to the experience of fragmentation and unity.
? Meditative States: Study the neural correlates of meditative awareness to explore its effects on perception and cognition.
5.2 Interdisciplinary Approaches
? Combine Bohm’s holomovement with quantum theories of consciousness to examine the relationship between the implicate order and neural processes.
? Explore connections between Krishnamurti’s teachings and psychological theories of mindfulness and non-duality.
5.3 Philosophical and Theoretical Work
? Develop a more detailed philosophical framework that integrates Bohm’s and Krishnamurti’s ideas with contemporary models of consciousness, such as integrated information theory (IIT) and predictive processing.
6. Conclusion
The dialogues between David Bohm and Jiddu Krishnamurti provide a profound synthesis of scientific and spiritual perspectives on consciousness and reality. Their exploration of thought, fragmentation, and meditative awareness offers valuable insights into the nature of the mind and its relationship to the universe. While their ideas remain speculative, they open pathways for interdisciplinary research that could deepen our understanding of consciousness and the unity of existence. By integrating Bohm’s holomovement with Krishnamurti’s spiritual teachings, these dialogues continue to inspire inquiry into the fundamental nature of reality.
References
1. Bohm, D. (1980). Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Routledge.
2. Krishnamurti, J. (1970). Freedom from the Known. HarperOne.
3. David Bohm's Theory of the Implicate Order: Implications for Holistic Thought Processes (1995)
by Irene J. Dabrowski, Ph.D.
4. Bohm, D., & Hiley, B. J. (1993). The Undivided Universe: An Ontological Interpretation of Quantum Theory. Routledge.
5. Krishnamurti, J., & Bohm, D. (1985). The Ending of Time. HarperOne.
6. Krishnamurti, J. (1969). The Only Revolution. HarperOne.
7. Bohm, D. (1996). “On Dialogue.” On Dialogue and the Nature of Thought. Routledge.
8. Shear, J. (2014). “Some Reflections on Meditation Research and Consciousness Studies”
9. Wilber, K. (2000). Integral Psychology: Consciousness, Spirit, Psychology, Therapy. Shambhala.
10. Raichle, M. E. (2015). “The Brain’s Default Mode Network.” Annual Review of Neuroscience, 38, 433-447.
11. Lutz, A., Dunne, J. D., & Davidson, R. J. (2007). “Meditation and the Neuroscience of Consciousness.” Cambridge Handbook of Consciousness, 499-554.
12. Huxley, A. (1945). The Perennial Philosophy. Harper & Brothers.
13. Zohar, D., & Marshall, I. (1994). The Quantum Self: Human Nature and Consciousness Defined by the New Physics. Quill.
14. Tononi, G. (2008). “Consciousness as Integrated Information: A Provisional Manifesto.” Biological Bulletin, 215(3), 216-242.
15. Seth, A. K. (2021). Being You: A New Science of Consciousness. Faber & Faber.
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1 个月The concept of dynamic wholeness of reality, unity and the limitations of thought; as I understand, it is found in many traditions (I don't know if in monotheistical) as the duality, trinity and multiplicity in which the "unity" of the whole always seems to unfold. Nice post.