In conversation with Philip Gaskin on social impact in the regions

In preparation for the upcoming Social Impact in the Regions conference from 4 to 6 September in Kempsey, NSW, we had the opportunity to join in conversation with Philip Gaskin, who is coming to Australia to speak at the conference as the keynote on the topic of Investing in Regional Impact with an international context. You can watch the conversation below, further highlights are captured in this post.

Please join us in September in conversation with Philip and other leaders as we work together to advance social impact in the regions.

I recently shared a post on global rankings of innovation ecosystems and how indexes comparing regions or focusing on one particular outcome, such as startup activity, may overlook other factors related to social impact. In our conversation, Philip touched on issues of learning from other regions while not replicating undesirable conditions and integrating community and economic development. We opened by exploring how Philip's background in political movements informed his views on the power of community building.

“Much of my work has been based on a community perspective and looking at how people work together to remove barriers so people can be more successful. From a Kauffman perspective, that was based on entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial ecosystems. ?Before that, I was curious about communities working as a community organiser in the United States on political campaigns and building movements of people working together block by block to build movements. It's with that type of curiosity in communities and working in communities that I traveled to Australia last year for the Global Entrepreneurship Congress where I was fortunate to be able to visit other communities and listen and learn about how communities are forming their ecosystems.”

One of Philip’s focus areas is how regions outside the United States can learn from its history while taking a sustainable approach to social impact.

"What I was seeing where the United States and seeing where I believe Australia in some ways is ahead of where we were say 15 years ago. I've taken that curiosity in the last year and the work that I'm doing now, which is really looking at helping leaders of organisations increase their social return on investment but looking at it from a sustainability perspective in the way we all work together and the ways people in communities come together cross sector to lead to a better future for communities and people."

Kerry shares what we see locally with Ready Macleay and a follow-up question about the intersection between community and economic development, a key aspect of the Ready Communities approach.

"There's some pragmatic things we've seen such as activating some disused spaces. We will be using what's currently an unused retail center for our actual conference. And that means that we can activate the entire CBD of Kempsey itself for the conference using empty buildings or disused buildings. That's really exciting."

"There's something that Philip said that really piqued my interest. It's about the ease in which you speak between entrepreneurship and the economy and community. One of the key features of the Ready Maclay program is that it brings together economic and community development. Can you maybe speak a little bit about how you see that thriving communities mold those two together more easily?"

In response, Philip highlights the value of trust in people's connections at a local level and how people who are not connected in communities can be left out of opportunities.

"It's about opportunity and how people get to fulfill a dream or thrive. So much of it is off an idea that they may have for a business, to start a business to employ people, or for people to work in that business. I look at it in what I call entrepreneur focused economic development, thinking through how we work together in the community, how it operates and builds trust. Because trust is very important to lead to better futures and better economies. They always say economies are local, that people are the new economies, and that everything starts from a local basis. You see that intersection of the two. The more connected the community is so people who need resources get those resources as quickly as possible with the least amount interference or friction. There are too many people that are left out of the opportunity to either the resources of knowledge or resources of support or funding. That's how I see those meshing."

These factors, which might be described as thin networks, are evident in lower-population rural communities. Kerry highlighted this as we further explored examples of thriving regional communities.

"The communities we are working in, the markets are quite thin. They are very small communities, so we don't have an abundance of workforce or even customers to shop in the local shops."

"Can you, can you think of ways or communities that you've experienced might be like this, that use that trust building and collaboration you spoke about to make that economy and opportunity thrive?"

Many smaller communities may compare themselves to their neighbours or larger counterparts to measure success. However, Philip shares his experience that the key is to start small to build trust, focus on the strengths of the local community, develop a shared language of success, and use that to attract others to the vision.

"So many communities that I've observed of how they've become vibrant is because they started small. There are things you miss, such as art, food, and music as three things that bring people together. It makes people start talking and caring, which then builds trust. It's starting small for everyone with people coming together and saying, “What really makes us unique or special? Communities that are smaller can get very excited about becoming the bigger one, assuming that that one is highly successful. But it's all about starting where you are, understanding the real gifts of the community you have, and being able to then talk about it more, have a unified language about it, and attracting others to that point. But starting small and being okay with that can lead to success."

While this sounds good in principle, it can be a challenge in a community with seemingly competing interests, particularly between the portfolios of community development and economic development. Kerry highlights this challenge with a question on bringing both sides together.

"How do you think we bridge that divide? I see it in the communities I work in between community and economic development where we might have the systems and structures supporting each. In councils we have economic development departments and community development departments that by name and title keep things separate. If we have a community development worker who is concerned with alleviating poverty in the community, it's difficult to see the opportunity that creating an economic opportunity can bring. How do you think that we can bring them together in the community or the ecosystem?"?

Philip shared about the first steps of just getting people in the same room at the same time, then building trust and setting small goals as they work together.

"Not to oversimplify, but I would say have they all been in the same room at the same time. We did a study of four different communities across the United States that were different sizes and had different economic indicators. We watched how people in the communities and the community leaders came together. Some of them had been doing the same type of work, community development or economic development, but had never ever been in the same room around a unified goal. That was one thing that was just eye-opening for us."

"The second is that trust was so important for those people to meet, understand, and build trust over time to say, “Hey, we are all on the same page. We are trying to get to the same thing.” The key is identifying a smaller set of goals to start on first before trying to do everything, which can get too diffuse. I would say that type of collaborative time and trust building is very important."

This leads to the question of whose role it might be to facilitate the convening and build that trust.

"When we have a conference in September, people are looking for answers, saying that all sounds really good. But in the work that you've seen, whose role is it to facilitate that? You talk about trust and getting people around, and you have local governments and councils, philanthropy, foundations, local community workers and not-for-profit sector business. One of the things we are seeing in the Kempsey region is that you have all these different actors coming in to say we all want to contribute. But sometimes the pendulum shifts between one or the other as an emphasis. How do you practically see that working in a community that wants to develop some of that trust and working together and coming up with those common challenges?"

Philip responds by highlighting that the role can vary based on what is available in the community. What is common is the position of a dedicated community builder or ecosystem builder.

"Well, the trusted most neutral partner is always helpful. Sometimes that is philanthropy, sometimes not. Sometimes it's community foundations that understand the community and have networks and have built trust over time. Not every community has a community foundation though. What we found was there is an actual position called a community builder or an ecosystem builder. I'll use those words interchangeably. For instance, in the four cities that we ran a program over three years, these four cities would learn how to build an entrepreneurial ecosystem from scratch. The first thing is each community hired an ecosystem builder, a community builder whose job it was from the time they get up in the morning to go to bed is nothing but connect and communicate and cross the language and help everyone build. Everyone else has day jobs and things to do."

"We are seeing that take off in the US where we have universities hiring these community builders. There's an actual job description for it."

"Funny stories at two universities I spoke with who had come to us on the [Kauffman] Foundation and said, we love the work that you're doing in communities and you talk about ecosystems. How do we do this?” The first thing I would say is “Have you gotten out of your building and walked across the quad and talked to the people in the other building?” Sometimes they had not done that."

"But when we brought up this community builder position, it was the light bulb. Now, Notre Dame and Northern Indiana have hired one. It goes back to trust. The person has to have good relationships across sectors. It's hard without that type of catalyst because of the different interests and different time commitments that people might have to bring it all together."

We consider what this means in the Kempsey region in Ready Communities, in the role we play as facilitators, others who are serving in the community or ecosystem builder position, and where there might be gaps.

"Kerry, reflecting on the work that we've done, what have you found in the Kempsey region in facilitating and others who are already in the community acting in the role? What have you seen that's worked and what have you seen that's missing where some of what Philip's saying might apply?"

Kerry shared her observations of a lack of supported dedicated community builder roles and how those positions are largely based on community development. A broad approach is needed to consider individuals in the community as a whole person and more than a segmented lens based on services provided. ?

"There are people who would be unofficially those community builders in the community. I think Australia is very unbaked in terms of roles like that. We might have a community development worker, but they will rise through the ranks of community engagement. They can often be cynical towards the business community, which I think is to our great detriment. I've also noticed that when we have the opportunity to come together, they are jumping at it, particularly in the business community. We are noticing that the business community is coming together so much more readily and understandably so. The community sector has so many meetings and inter-agencies and things to go to, it's exhausting work."

"It's not that it's not hard in the business community, but it's different. Our job with Ready Communities is to weave in the community services. As an example, the backbone organisation we are working and which is working with community services has now put one of their staff members in charge of CBD activation work. We had a conversation the other day about the business community handling questions, complaints, and interactions from people that have broad social challenges. One example given was for mobile phone service for people released from prison. They do not have a birth certificate, so they can't get a phone. Because the service system wasn't connected into that retail store, it was very hard for them to work out what services they could refer to."

"So now the backbone organisation can start linking up those appropriate services. This had not been done before. Communities are dealing with the same client groups but they are different pathways of service access, which means we're never looking at a whole person. We are looking at segments of a person and addressing it accordingly. The problems just keep perpetuating because there is no way to join things together. I see that as a very difficult to measure, but a very significant outcome of this program."

Kerry also explained the nature of what is referred to as a backbone organisation.

"Under the collective impact methodologies, the backbone organisation is the entity that keeps things together. In the Macleay region it is Learning the Maclay. They are funded to 2029 to work in the community. They have time to do this amazing work."

With this understanding, we ask Philip about his perspective on backbones and the role of community foundations as backbone entities.

"One of the things I should have said is why I am so excited that you are having the conference in September. Convening is very key. One of the programs that we ran was called EShip, short for entrepreneurship, Summit. We had about 500 community builders from across the United States from government offices, economic development, community development, university nonprofit entrepreneurs, everyone coming together in the same room at the first time ever. In this way, we go through an annual immersion together of understanding of how to professionalise the building of entrepreneurial ecosystems, working together, coming up with goals together, learning through doing that together, and using creative design thinking is very important and very useful."

"The power to convene with the ability to convene so you can keep conversations going. ?Having something rhythmic and that everyone can depend on is very important. Backbones, community foundations, or other organisations can do that for us. In Kansas City, it was certainly Kauffman Foundation. The foundation is in a position where a number of different sectors come to Kauffman to get their opinion or help. In communities, sometimes it is community colleges, sometimes it is ?the community foundation, sometimes it is economic development, it depends. But having that dependable backbone that people can go to is very important."

Sharing about how my own journey was inspired by the first ESHIP summit, we ask Philip about what he hopes to share with Australia in his upcoming visit and tour.

"I can attest what you're saying about the convening I was there for, for the first EShip Summit, which informed a lot of my thinking and it's probably one of the reasons why on this call with you now and also one of the passions behind partnering with Kerry on the Social Impact in the Regions Conference."

"You take a global perspective, and you came through Australia last year with a tour and you are coming back to Australia to different regions to raise a level of thinking and awareness. If you were to have a mandate or passion as you come to Australia seeing the differences, what would your message to Australia be and what would you hope to achieve as you're heading around to some of the different places around the country?"

Philip highlights his reflections on the need for data and the need to engage each community as unique while leveraging off shared learning.

"A couple of things I noticed when I was there: the need for data and the need for understanding what people actually need and think. It was very helpful here in all of our communities to take a community-based listening and community-based research approach to say, “Let's not assume that because our economy may look this or our geography is this, that that's all we can do, or that's all people want, or that's all the challenges people are going through till you really ask the questions and do more.”

"It's always going to feel like someone else is farther ahead of you. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the case. It's also easy to leave someone out of the room. I always say, who's not in the room? Unless you're doing data and community mining and listening, you really won't know."

Building on the data-driven approach, we asked Kerry to share what people might expect from conversations at the Social Impact in the Regions Conference.

"One of the things we are doing through Ready Communities is that data driven approach of asking what we are actually working with to identify who's not in the room. I might ask you to build on what Philip's saying as he gets ready to come to the Social Impact in the Region conference. What would you hope to leverage from some of the things that he's saying, the impact for the delegates, and the different roles that are coming? What's the shift are we hoping to see from some of these conversations?"

Kerry highlighted two areas of gaining perspective from international examples as well and a deeper understanding of shared economic development and community development challenges. Kerry continued with questions about Philip’s experiences with communities experiencing trauma from natural disasters.

"I think there's a few things. The first is that I've never been to a community that doesn't think their problems are unique. I think that the global context is very important for people to understand. A lot of challenges we are facing in our regional Australian communities are actually global challenges as well. I do think that's important."

"Also, there is the thorough understanding Philip has between economic and community development. I think that's really important for our audience to learn from."

"Philip, I'd be curious to ask you about small entities that struggle for funding to just enable people to live decent lives. This is difficult for many of the communities that we're working with who still have vicarious trauma after natural disasters we've experienced in recent years. How do you think you'll be approaching these communities?"

Philips’ response provided an example of communities coming together under a shared platform to highlight services, which had an exponential effect on the number of businesses starting and being supported.

"Those are things where listening is so important. We just said that no community is the same, and no challenge is the same as it relates to people who are going through it in their work. A lot of listening is what I have seen is in smaller communities. The need to go back to a theme before and the need to band together and see if there may be resources that could be joined. If people are working on similar things, could it be joined together? Could there be combined resources and combined vision so all the weight isn't felt just on one leader. That comradery and alignment is very important."

"We've seen that here in one of our studies in the Kansas City area a couple years ago. It has a number of different not for profits that are community-based trying to solve problems as it relates to a mostly Latino community in Kansas City, Kansas. They decided to create together one central nonprofit called the KC Toolbox so that any of their people that they wanted to serve could come under one roof still with everyone represented and get the resources and learning, where to go for funding, etc. Then that organisation reached out to the Better Business Bureau, the mayor's office, and others. They came together and as of last count there were over 50 ?new business that had started and over a hundred have been assisted through that. It was just because of an idea of how we come together and do something different. That's one example, There are many different ones for different communities Just start small and don't get overwhelmed or intimidated and have encouragement, but also look to see who else might be doing something similar."

Kerry reflected on the Kansas City case study with what we are seeing in Kempsey and a story from unsupported entrepreneurial focus in the past.

"That example's great and it would also be good as part of the Ready Communities program or the Ready Maclay pilot we are delivering. People that might have business ideas, but it's very hard to work out where to take them. At the same time there are 33 empty shops in the main community. It would be really interesting to start those conversations not only with the Kempsey community, but the broader conference delegates as well."

"There was a young man who lived in one of the communities I work in back in the day. He used to hitchhike 20 kilometers so he could get to the nearest youth center so that he could burn CDs with music and then take them back to his community and sell them to people. Now that set of entrepreneurial skills was very difficult to harness. Imagine if that person had have been able to connect with somebody who could maybe scale his business in a different type and slightly more legal way. He had the skills to create change, but the ecosystem couldn't necessarily support him in that."

As the conversation wrapped, I was grateful for the opportunity for you to join the conversation in September with Philip at the conference.

If you are involved in social impact work in regional communities, we would love to see you in Kempsey in September. The program is shaping up and includes exciting sessions like Community Wealth Building, Funding social impact, Regional place-based program design, and Empowering regional changemakers. The program will also be informed by ten months of deep engagement with the local community as delegates benefit from the full experience of the conference in the local context.