A conversation with Amanda Maltz on her career journey into L&D, OD, and organizational culture

Amanda Maltz, MAOP and I went to college together, though we didn’t know each other well at the time. Like many from our graduating class, we moved to Los Angeles to pursue careers in the entertainment industry, but we found ourselves stumbling into HR and organizational development roles around the same time. We began connecting more often to exchange ideas and update each other on our work lives, eventually becoming friends.

Throughout her career, Amanda has accomplished remarkable work at companies like Apple, Lionsgate, Netflix, and Warner Bros. Discovery. In 2022, she took a year off from the corporate world after earning her degree in Organizational Psychology to become an independent consultant.

Amanda recently moved to Beaverton, OR, to join Nike, where she was hired to help the company discover and operationalize the culture it needs to reach its strategic ambitions.?

My conversation with Amanda spans her career journey from post-college in Los Angeles to becoming a consultant.

I’d love to start by asking: Why do you do what you do?

Early in my career, I was constantly searching for an ideal work environment, which led me to HR and employee engagement roles. However, as I delved deeper into employee-facing positions, I realized that organizational development (OD) and learning and development (L&D) have the power to address root problems and improve working conditions. I’m fulfilled knowing that I can make a tangible difference in organizations through my work.

What’s an example of a time you felt you made a significant difference?

I’ve helped organizations make big splashes trying to change their culture, for example, through rolling out new values. And those moments are great. But for me, the smaller, more incremental ones make a bigger difference. For example, I’ve had leaders approach me a few months after an off-site saying, "That activity we did has really shaped the way we've been talking to each other as a team” or “We're still using this language that you brought up in that session." I've had coaching sessions with leaders where they go back to their employees and have feedback conversations they've been avoiding, leading to stronger relationships. I find that the smaller, incremental changes are the ones that stick the most.

Why don't the bigger moments work as well as the smaller ones?

It's easier to move a speedboat than a cruise ship. Giant program launches are like cruise ships. They are amazing. But lasting behavior change only happens when it's more intimate. When you're trying to create immediate behavior change for everyone, you cannot get to the root of each person's motivation for change. To truly change behavior, people need to individually understand what’s in it for them, and they need to feel it in their bones. Doing that at scale for a company of, say 30,000 people, makes that much harder. It’s not impossible! I’ve just found more success in smaller moments.?

How did you first get into HR?

I got my undergrad in marketing and started as an assistant in the commercial department of a talent agency. At the time I didn't know what HR actually did besides hiring and firing, but as I pushed the mail cart through the agency, every time I'd go into the HR office to deliver mail, I found the space calm and thought that HR might be more of my speed vs. other departments at the agency. This was obviously before I saw the inner workings of an HR department!

Then one day, I set up time with the head of the agency’s internship program to tell her about all the ideas I had for improving the program. Looking back, this was absolutely not the way to approach things in what was a very hierarchical company, so I don't know what she thought of me at the time. But when a position opened to assist the head of HR, she recommended me. That's how it began.

You spent time as an HR generalist before transitioning into L&D and OD. Tell us about that transition.

When I got to Lionsgate, I was doing general HR work and employee engagement. Because I was familiar with how assistants worked in the entertainment industry, I developed training for how to use the phones, the lingo, and role expectations. From there, my bosses said, "This is great - can you do something like this for new managers?" So I created training material for new managers, and then pretty soon I was accidentally an L&D person and instantly fell in love with it.?

When I eventually moved to Warner Bros., I was on the L&D team. I had heard of OD, but I had never worked with an internal OD person or team. In all the places I'd worked previously, if we needed OD work done, an HR business partner did it, or we would hire an external consultant. When I discovered Warner Bros. had an OD team, I became obsessed with the work they were doing. I loved how they worked with internal teams and saw the impact their work had afterwards. This meant, for example, working in depth with a leader and pinpointing exactly what they needed to do to be most effective.

I made it known to my boss that I wanted to do OD work if the opportunity ever came up. My boss was supportive, and when opportunities eventually opened to do several OD stretch assignments, I took them. I loved every minute of working on those projects. I decided then that I never wanted to go back to doing only L&D – ideally OD, or a combination of the two.

You recently decided to try consulting. What's been the biggest difference between working in-house and out-of-house?

What I loved about being out of house is that when someone hires you, they're ready to invest in "fixing the problem” and generally have an open mind through an engagement. In contrast, when you’re in-house, it's hard when an HR business partner comes to you and says, "Hey, this team hates each other and needs help” or “They're not operating effectively." Oftentimes, you’ll talk to the leader, and they say, "We're fine." And I’m thinking, “Are you though?" There can be a back and forth, sometimes resistance, that can be frustrating - your clients sometimes aren’t fully committed. In contrast, as an out-of-house consultant, I don’t always get to see the impact of the work, whereas in-house, you often do. Both have their upsides and challenges.

What kinds of challenges are your clients facing?

The challenge of hybrid working is a huge topic right now. Many organizations are struggling to find the right approach and leaders often overlook the importance of asking the right questions to understand what worked during fully remote times, which aspects should be retained, and how to address the challenges specific to hybrid work. Instead, policies and procedures are often developed without sufficient input from employees. I've been assisting clients in reframing their perspective and creating policies based on employee needs.

Another significant topic is the entrance of Generation Z into the workforce. Gen Z has different needs compared to previous generations. Additionally, as Baby Boomers exit the workforce, Gen X is assuming leadership positions in organizations. Gen X tends to have a distinct perspective on work-life balance compared to Gen Z. Organizations are grappling with how to effectively integrate and address the needs of this new generation, considering their unique perspectives on work.?

From your experience, why aren't leaders listening to their people and how can they start??

Many leaders, regardless of the size of their organizations, are accustomed to the pre-pandemic status quo, which often led to their success. It can be hard to shift thinking and embrace change, which may explain why they sometimes don't listen. However, what made an organization successful in the past is not always what will make them successful in the future.?

There's an interesting phenomenon I've observed, something referred to as the "Kids These Days Effect." It's a tendency to view younger generations as inexperienced newcomers who should follow the established way of doing things. But, with the world and work environments undergoing significant changes, this assumption is not necessarily valid anymore. It's not just Gen Z feeling these changes; it impacts everyone.

There's a clear tension, a push and pull. How I navigate this tension as an organization development professional varies depending on the leader and the needs of their organization. The key is to find leaders open to change. I've been fortunate enough to work with many of these leaders, who have been receptive to listening more and exploring strategies to facilitate change.

Sometimes, this approach involves cultivating curiosity. Other times, it means setting up specific processes to gather information. On occasion, it has meant holding organized listening sessions or creating forums to generate space for open discussion.

How do you stay informed? Who or what do you surround yourself with to continue learning?

I find it’s too easy to get completely consumed with the abundant literature on the future of work, organization development, and HR. But, for my sanity and the sake of my family and friends who don't always want to talk about these topics, I balance my interests by reading a lot of fiction as well.

To stay informed and continually learn, I surround myself with people who are naturally curious. I connect with colleagues and other professional contacts about what works and what doesn't in their own workplaces. I value spending time with people who can critically assess a situation, suggest improvements, and share knowledge. These kinds of interactions often kick start my learning journeys.

Thanks so much, Amanda.