A Contentious Exchange Between a Junior Software Engineer and a VP of Engineering

This is a story about a 24 year old software engineer who had an introductory call with a VP of Engineering here in Austin and the exchange went very poorly. What's disappointing is that the interview was nothing more than a calibration call; a chance for the VP to do some Q&A with this engineer and then let him know where in the org chart he would fit at this company. This is standard procedure for the majority of tech firms out there and yet, this engineer didn't like it one bit. As I thought about this post over the weekend, I tried to dig into the mindset of this young engineer and why he took such an issue with the VP over this perceived disconnect from the job description. Money had not yet entered the picture and the focus of this call was to discuss the candidate's background and where he fit in the organization. I call these "exploratory conversations" and "calibration calls". And this VP happened to be one of the best at them. He is an expert at digging into the technical and personal side of candidates to see where they would rank.

These type of calls really have no downside because even if there isn't a match for an opportunity right now, the experience can still be a positive one and the result is a new professional contact that could be around for the next 10-15 years. You want to set the table properly in case you cross paths with this individual again. So with that said, settle back in your chair and read the emails between this 24 year old software engineer and the VP. Start from the top and read downward.?No edits at all. This is word for word.

Here you go,?

VP of Engineering (email sent prior to the call) -

The purpose of this meeting is four fold

1. Introduce ****: what we do, how we are doing, our culture, and how we are growing
2. Introduce the engineering team: who we are, what we are doing, and the type of person that will be successful on this team
3. Introduction to the role: what we need this person to come in and succeed at and what skills they will need to succeed
4. Learn a bit more about the candidate and what they are looking to do at this point in their career

Candidate's reply (after the interview)

Hey ****,?

Excellent talking to you today, and I am sorry we couldn't work together. All that said I would suggest you guys have a look at the verbiage?on the Job Description and speak with your internal recruiter about more clearly defining?what you are looking for so?that we aren't wasting anyone's time with this kind of thing. Unfortunately,?our discussion was pretty far apart from what the JD conveyed and what the actual position was about. It makes your opening seem a little sketchy.?

VP's reply -?

Thanks *** and it as great to talk to you as well. I am sorry that your experience and our definitions of a senior engineer was not clear and did not match up to your skills. I am sorry about wasting your time and wish you good luck.?

Candidate's final reply -?

Gotcha, no worries. Unfortunately you misunderstood the issue. It isn’t your job to advise me as to what your definition of senior is, but I do appreciate the micro aggression. Your job (as a general term) is making sure that the recruiter understands what you’re looking for. Just trying to help you guys actually dial in your recruiting process.?

Good luck with that!

I'm serious everyone, a 24 year old spoke like this to arguably one of the most respected VP's of Engineering in Austin. At face value, the issue seems to be on the job description but the bigger concern was how much of an indictment the engineer makes against the VP. Did he really go into that call with the impression that the conversation was going to be a 100% match with what was presented to him in job description??And how about the engineer's statement that it's not the VP's right to define his seniority? I don't have to tell my reading audience that one of the core abilities of any engineering executive is to rank the seniority of the team he/she leads. Who is junior, who is midlevel, who is senior.?Every engineering executive I know can do this in their sleep. Also, this engineer had an agenda emailed to him prior to the call so?there was no grey area whatsoever.?You can tell in his tone that the VP is disappointed the call didn't go better but he is contrite and wishes him well in the future. And with that, the engineer comes back even harder.?

When two parties misunderstand each other to get into a dispute, in that heated moment, each individual is doing their best to win the argument. What kind of statements can be made that defeat the other party? That is precisely where this engineer took the conversation. In his case, he spun the facts and got personal. And by the way, this engineer already sounds really damn good at this sort of thing. This certainly wasn't the first time he's had this kind of conversation. He knew exactly how to respond and what to say when this interview didn't go in the direction he wanted it to go. But folks, let me tell you now that this engineer did not win this engagement. He lost big time.?

And when I say that, I'm not talking about this VP speaking poorly of him in the future. This executive is a dear friend of mine and he has a million other things to do on a daily basis more important than this. Will he forget this moment? No, he won't but he'll wash his hands with this engineer and forever be done with him. Should their paths cross again, it's an immediate rejection. But even more troubling is the perception in the young software engineer's mind that he won this argument. That he came away on top. So when that exists in our psyche, what do we do??Well, we do it again! We take on another technology leader that we don't 100% agree with and we do whatever we can to win another argument. Slowly but surely, over the years, we build this library of disturbing conversations with engineering leaders who happen to be 1st and 2nd level connections in our professional network.??

This was really poor etiquette on behalf of this software engineer and the worst consequence for him is that he didn't learn a lesson from it. If he stays here in Austin and has similar conversations with Qingqing, Michael Norman and Rashmi Narasimhan over the next 5-7 years, he'll post his resume on Indeed one day and get maybe two interview invites when someone with his background would normally get 13-15. The damage will emerge over the long run via a small network of hiring managers who want nothing to do with him. And there's a good chance that word will spread. Not out of spite (again because they have so many more important things to be doing) but on account of happenstance. Talk about winning the battle but losing the war. This engineer did exactly that to himself with this exchange.

When you walk into that introductory virtual meeting with an engineering leader at a technology company, please treat it like an open plate and don't have the impression the entire call is going to be modeled off the job description. And if you aren't a fit for any roles they have open at the time, don't worry about it. Just use the conversation as the opportunity to build your brand and tell others about the kind of engineer you are, both technically and culturally. As much as possible, make it a positive and pleasant experience. Trust me that these moments will add up very nicely and reward you one day in the future.?

Four years from now, a couple of hiring managers will be at a DevOps Days networking event and your name will come up. One manager started talking about you and even though you weren't senior enough for his role, he liked you. Your name gets passed along and you get an invite on LinkedIn by this other hiring manager and there is a request to set up a call with you. Introductory call goes well and this company happens to have the perfect position for you. You really click with their engineering team and next thing you know, an offer for 12% more that what you are currently making is put on the table. You think about it over the weekend and decide to take the leap of faith and accept. It doesn't seem like that big of a deal but that is your professional network going to work for you. Two hiring managers connect and one of them starts talking about you in very good light and it results in you being messaged about an opportunity that takes your career to the next level. Trust me that these things do happen?

The engineer in this story will never experience anything like this. He'll spend the next five years winning these petty arguments with Directors and VP's of Engineering and come away feeling like it's the company that's unorganized and dysfunctional. He'll continue building this inner confidence that he's educating everyone on who he is as a software engineer. And believe it or not but he'll do a great job of this. Over time, there will be a network of hiring managers here in Austin who know exactly what kind of developer he represents.?

And they'll want nothing to do with him.?

Thanks,?

Mark Cunningham

Technical Recruiter

512-699-5719

[email protected]

https://thebiddingnetwork.com

https://markcunningham91.blogspot.com

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