CHIRIKURE ANGA ARI PEDYO

I love the idea of documenting literary events especially interviews. Here is one I attended on Jun 25, 2012 at the Spanish Embassy Harare. Memory Chirere in conversation with Chirikure Chirikure.

Background

Chirikure Chirikure was born in 1962 in Gutu. He is poet, writer, actor,

cultural consultant and translator. A graduate from the University of

Zimbabwe, Chirikure is also an honorary fellow at the University of Iowa,

USA. He worked with one of Zimbabwe's largest publishing houses, College

Press as an editor for 17 years until 2002. Chirikure has been based in

Germany for the past year after being selected to be part of the DAAD Artist

in Berlin fellowship which has seen him performing across Europe and

lecturing. 

His works include the shona poetry anthology, Rukuvhute(College Press,

1989), Chamupupuri(1994), Hakurarwi published in Shona with English

translation(1994), a children's book Mavende akiti(1989). Chirikure has

also written Zimbabwe Junior Certificate Revision book (1989), co-authored

Zvirimuchinokoro, published by ZPH in 2004. He now has a new poetry

anthology ... with poetry in Shona, English translated into German. The

book comes with a recorded poetry on CD. 

One of Chirikure's recent achievements is the decision by the Vienna

airport, Austria to display one of his Shona poems "Kuenda, Kudzoka" in

their departure lounge with effect from June 2012. 

He has also been involved in music and his musical recordings include

Napupekeni(2002), a fusion of mbira and poetry. He was also involved in the

Ray of Hope compilation, a Rooftop production. Chirikure has worked with

many artists in Zimbabwe including Oliver Mtukudzi, Chiwoniso Maraire,

Albert Nyathi and bands like Uya Moya and Detembira.

The Interview

MM:  Memory Chirere

CC:   Chirikure Chirikure

MC:  How has been your stay in Germany? What have you learnt in Germany

and what have you taught them in return?

CC:   I am stationed in Berlin. It has been 12 months, the program is well

arranged and designed and quite flexible. They network for you such that

you end updoing more travelling than staying in Berlin, travelling in

Germany and surrounding countries like Austria, Switzerland and sometimes to

the UK as well. The good coincidence is I had the book published in June

for which the contract was done before I was even awarded the fellowship.

By the time I got to Berlin the publishers were in touch with DAAD, so from

the onset the publishers and DAAD were working together arranging the

program for me; readings, lectures, performances, collaborations with

Zimbabwean musicians based in Europe as well as European musicians and

musicians from other parts of the world. It was quite an experience in that

you are on the road for two, three weeks in a row, moving from one hotel to

another, one country to the next to the extent that you end up getting

confused as to where you are exactly. My son who is at university in South

Africa kept on sending emails saying I was living like a rock star which is

quite a unique opportunity in performance poetry. Also I got the

opportunity to collaborate with artists across all the genres; I had

opportunities to contribute to films, documentaries and audio recordings. I

did a beautiful collaboration with a German beat-boxer fusing poetry and

beat-boxing, we recorded one of my poems from the new book, a 4-minute

recording. Quite interesting and fascinating experiences is when you are

invited to a hip-hop festival and you are asked to perform with hip-hop

artists and initially I would say, O my God, so you go on the internet and

try to listen to hip-hop, trying to see how best you can be meaningful to

the young audiences...

MC:  ...and what have you taught them?

CC:   Teaching them is a very difficult thing to say...

MC:  What did they say they like about you and the way you work?

CC:   What I tried to do, first and foremost was carry the Shona language

as much as possible and carry workshops talking about the Zimbabwean Culture

but I also did a few things with young children, primary school kids doing

story-telling, tsuro nagudo, but also got the opportunity to perform with

mbira and do my humble dance just to share the rhythms of southern Africa

and Zimbabwean culture. You wouldn't say you are teaching as such but you

are sharing a little bit of what you can carry on your shoulder as a son of

Zimbabwe and I think it's up to the listener to say they have picked one or

two things out of it...

MC:  I asked that question because more often the impression when one goes

abroad among some people is that this person who is coming from Africa to

Germany is just going to benefit, just imbibe what is there and there is

nothing he is going to teach and leave with them which can be

dangerous...There is a title poem, from your book Rukuvhute,(reads the

poem). Chirikure is there anything about yourself that you think is left out

whenever you are introduced to an audience?

CC:   The internet has come in a very dynamic way in the sense that

sometimes you sometimes feel very naked and highly exposed like the saying

they have, is it in the Ibo language...the higher the monkey climbs the more

it exposes...

MC:  ...itself , the parents are here...

CC:   So in a lot of ways people have so much information about you but

the funny side of things is that most discussions end up drifting into the

political environment of Zimbabwe and very few people really bother to ask

the simple things like how many meals you have a day...simple things.

MC:  Chirikure Chirikure what is your relationship with this name, what

have you lost, gained, what have you noticed through this name?

CC:   My mother is here as my witness, the name I have is a genuine name.

It was given me at birth but like the average human being when I got into my

teens I was ashamed of the name and I adopted the name Carlos.

MC:  Carlos who? (laughs)

CC:   Carlos Chirikure, it was cool, really cool. Later on as you get to

university you get to appreciate the honour bestowed on you by your parents

to be given your family name as your first name; you feel you are carrying

the whole family. It gives you stamina, not just intellectual stamina but

identity. A lot   of people think it's a stage name and most of the times

you get invited to festivals they say, please confirm whether this is your

real name before we send your ticket. Now I feel it's an honour to carry

this name and I am proud.

MC:  Chirikure what would you put down as the Chirikure Chirikure brand.

CC:   To use the Shona language to talk, day to day, international, local

and immediate issues instead of using the Shona language as a cultural relic

where we use the Shona language to do traditional praise poetry; those

things are important and part of our lives but I think we are living in a

society which is on a constant transition and our language should be able to

interrogate all the issues any other language of the world can interrogate.

I have tried my best to use my poetry in the Shona language to interrogate

issues...

MC:  Why have you made this huge investment in a language that is only

spoken by ± twelve million people in the whole world?

CC:   I think the language itself has invested so much in me that I've to

pay back, it's not a free loan, by putting as much as I can into the

language, into the culture, I am giving honour to those who taught me this

language as well as my society. To share that with the rest of the world

gives dignity to my people, to myself and make others appreciate our

language.

MC:  Do you feel pity for the Shona language?

CC:   Nooooo, not at all...

MC:  What do you mean?

CC:   Pity means probably the language is dying...

MC:  Why are you carrying this cross some people would ask. You go to

Germany to perform in Shona you do well and you go to London and perform in

Shona and you do well, what is the problem Chirikure some people may ask?

CC:   Germany and London saw me doing things I do in Harare, in Gutu,

Masvingo and that is what they loved, then the connection goes on and in a

lot of ways it's a mark of respect of the work that I am doing.

MC:  They loved you for your performances in Shona and therefore you want

to carry on...

CC:   It's much more than the language itself, I think it's a lot of what

you talk about with the language and also the respect you have for your

language that makes other people respect your language too...

MC:  ...and in turn respect you as well...

CC:   I don't feel like I am carrying a cross as such or rescuing a

language, I am giving honour to something that I was given by my

fore-bearers and I am celebrating the beauty of the language, the beauty of

philosophy in my own language, the beauty of the rhythm. I don't think it

would be a mission to rescue something, it's a mission to give honour to

something which already has honour, a mission to say hey, look at what we

have here...

MC:  Rukuvhute, the anthology is about the sense of belonging, do you

still feel like that? Don't you feel like a man of the world, you've

travelled a lot now?

CC:   I've travelled a lot and it's a big honour...

MC:  'Handisi dombo, huku kana dombo chete,' powerful line do you still

feel like that?

CC:   If you are travelling and are not living from any particular base I

don't think you can travel very far because you need to have a reference

point and say, I left from Harare airport and people ask where is Harare and

you   explain. It's unlike coming from the blue...I don't know if I am

making sense?

MC:  You are.

CC:   In a lot of ways one cannot forsake their own background and if one

makes that mistake, I don't think you can go anywhere in life. One has to

continue respecting where you come from, continue honouring those who gave

you the skills, those who gave you the opportunity to be what you are. I

think people wouldn't feel comfortable inviting you and working with you if

they feel you don't belong anywhere.

MC:  Are you boasting?

CC:   Well, well...

MC:  Tinobhomba, I like this one, I read it and say why didn't I write

this one.

CC:   You know what can I make a request Prof, we had agreed with

Chiwoniso and friends that...

MC:  ...I am not going to read it now. It's in your latest book and the

question related to Tinobhomba is this one, get ready. Although you perform

there is one could sense the literary tone behind your work in that it lends

itself to being studied and I also note that you are connected to spoken

word artists from Harare. What relationship do you have with them? I

remember also Musa Zimunya who also writes being asked a year ago, do you

feel threatened by spoken word poets. What is your relationship with them?

CC:   That's three parts there...

MC:  Yes. Although your poetry can be performed it also lends itself to

being studied. It can also be read quietly and therefore what is your

relationship with spoken word artists, do you feel you are complementing

them, are you competing against them? I don't remember how Zimunya answered

the same question a year ago.

CC:   It's quite a big honour when you can put down words. I remember

when Rukuvhute came out we had a few problems with some professors who were

saying it's not the kind of poetry that can be taught in schools or colleges

because it didn't fit into the pattern most people had been taught about

what poetry should be.

MC:  They were lying because so many articles have written about

Hakurarwi...

CC:   ...but that was the first few years in the 90s when Rukuvhute came

out but with time people realise what you are trying to do and the

connection between performance poetry and the written and published poetry.

It's also good that the books are being studied now which is a good

opportunity. In terms of the spoken word environment in Zimbabwe, I have

worked with so many fellow colleagues in the spoken word field and also try

to connect most of them with other international and local initiatives.

Threat? I don't feel threatened at all because if one can be honest I've

pretty much done my fair share and probably started at a more difficult

phase of our    historical development as a country, with limited

resources, limited connections and a lot of intolerance in terms of the

environment as well. Now I think things are much easier. It was a big

honour for me to take poetry right in front of an audience so it's so much

of a big honour when I see younger poets coming on stage and we work

together in the Poetry Slam for example at the Book Cafe for which they have

been generous enough to accord me as the patron of the program. I work with

a lot of them through the HIFA poetry spoken word program so it's much more

complementing each other than being threatened. It's that when you are

building a wall you lay down the foundation and someone comes and adds two

rows of bricks and cement and you see things growing and I hope things will

continue that way, that we continue working together and complementing each

other.

MC:  There is another question for you. What is the real value of poetry

in a society? What if the real value of poetry beyond reading poetry for

the exam? Can a poem build a house? Can a poem build a blair toilet?

CC:   I think a poem builds the brain which then builds the blair toilet,

in a lot of ways I think poetry is a very crucial part of our society. Art

in general helps us shape our minds, shape our vision, share our sorrows,

dreams and our passions. It makes our society much more cohesive and it

opens doors for discussion. Look at the past ten/fifteen year in Zimbabwe

for example, we were so very politically divided it was either you belong

here or there, as artists we have always tried to open platforms for people

to debate, to negotiate and share your own feelings and I think any society

that doesn't communicate with itself is doomed and I think Zimbabwe was

heading in that unfortunate direction. You look at poetry performance the

world over, in primary schools in Zimbabwe, at festivals, people move out of

those shows discussing and debating and I think it's a contribution to the

global growth of a society and I think Zimbabwe needs as many spoken words

as possible to help the nation move forward. We need a lot of healing...

MC:  Chamupupuri came out in 1994, and it has short sharp poems, the title

poem refers to British Prime Minister MacMillan's words during his address

to the South African parliament on 3 February 1960. The speech acquired

it's title from the now famous quotation embedded in it. Macmillan said

"the wind of change is blowing through this continent whether we like it or

not, this growth of national consciousness is a fact." Chirikure what did

you want to achieve    with Chamupupuri both at level of style and

content. Did Chamupupuri blow up the people, chiri paiko chamupupuri ichi?

CC:   That was 1994, do I remember what was happening?

MC:  ESAP was beginning to bite and so on...

CC:   Like you said the reference to the British Prime Minister's words

and analysis within the context of a continent which is evolving and

addressing a South African parliament at a point where we were also hitting

hard against the British Society, politics and colonial baggage was also a

risk and gamble on my part in the sense that you are...you know what I am

trying to say. On the other hand the bottom line is where there is wisdom

we should accept words of wisdom whether they are coming from a mad man or

not or whether they are coming from your enemy or not and try and learn

something from whoever is saying something meaningful. In terms of my

vision I also saw our society going beyond what MacMillan was referring to,

he was talking of the winds of change in terms of moving from colonialism to

independent Africa but I tried to look further, the majority of African

countries after independence lot's of other issue came in, more like the

whirlwind. The winds of change turning into whirlwinds, picking up more

speed and destroying their own more than the enemy so I tried to stretch

Macmillan's vision into a more futuristic...in terms of style; how does the

poem go I can't quite remember...

MC:  I like Pfungwa dzebenzi, are you going to perform it tonight? You

can read any other that you are not going to perform tonight.

CC:   I am very honoured to see the University of Zimbabwe has this

book(referring to Chamupupuri that Memory Chirere was holding).

MC:  Ja, we have it and we read you know. I like that poem a lot.

CC:   (Reads Pfungwa dzebenzi)

MC:  Maybe a young poet would be sitting out there saying well he

(Chirikure) is a poet, he is a musician, and the question is Chiri, what

have you achieved through your artistic work? Ungoriwo rombe here chii

chinobatika chaunoita namabasa aya.

CC:   In terms of material things?

MC:  Just shoot in any direction because youngsters are always asking this

question whether you are a musician whether you are a poet, they are always

asking us, chii chamakazowana pazviri?

CC:   Ah, ndozonetswa mumbhawa ndichinzi tenga doro. (laughs)

MC:  I want you to volunteer whatever you want to volunteer. It's very

important, you are actually a role model and some of the people here are the

youngsters they want to know kuti zvinombopei? Shamwari dziri pano vabereki

vari pano, just be careful.

CC:   I will be as careful as possible, I have been fortunate in that I've

always had other jobs, full time jobs, I was working as a publisher for

years. I was working just down the road for HIVOS up to last year as a

Programme Officer for culture and the writing and performance side of things

were always coming in as things I would do after hours but the artistic side

of things has opened so  many doors for me including being invited to do

copy for advertising there I would get quite a bit of money, doing

translation work for NGOs like UNICEF over the years, doing a lot of stuff

for radio and television, newspapers. This is all because people identify

that you have a bit of ability to work with language and in the process I

have managed to give the family at least three meals a day for all the past

years which is a big honour...

MC:  That's an achievement.

CC:   Sadza rinonetsa and also to pay school fees for the children and buy

uniforms and once in a while bring my father and mother a packet of sugar.

My son is at university at Rhodes. I have never been given the opportunity

to be given the Presidential Scholarship to send my son, I have been paying

from my poetry and from my work as a publisher.

MC:  Mazvinzwa here imi mamwe marombe imi?Hurombe hwedu uhwu hunobhadhara.

CC:   Also I have friends like you, Tuku, Chiwoniso, Machisa who are here

and we work together, collaborating, contributing lyrics and through that

you also get a little more than what you would get from performing. You

know when we started performing at the Book Cafe, Chiwoniso is my witness,

we would be given a plate of sadza and two beers then we would go home but

after years people started appreciating what we were doing and slowly agreed

to pay to get into our shows.

MC:  Zvaingonzi sadza nehwahwa zvonzi hamba?

CC:   I think the bottom line is the passion and the drive, I think

eventually if you keep holding on you will get something out of it. Shimmer

my good friend he can be my good witness, Chiedza Musengezi, Virginia Phiri.

You work so hard over night, sleepless nights, it's very easy to give up

actually. You look at others driving nice cars, they did accounts at

university and you decided to do Shona and Divinity and you say ok, where

did I go wrong. Eventually when you see things adding up like that you also

enjoy the little you are making and the things you are doing. It's a big,

big blessing to make a living out of what you enjoy because a lot of people

I know go to their offices and curse themselves everyday, jump into a combi

kuenda kubasa and when the day is done they go kubhawa to get past the

fights they had with the manager manje isusu naChiwoniso tikaridza apapa

tonakidzwa hedu whether we make a cent or not, basa redu kufara nekufadza

vamwe whilst enjoying.

Transcribed by Batsirai E Chigama

Batsirai Easther Chigama

Website: batsiraichigama.maumbile.com

mailto:[email protected]

Twitter: batsiraichigama

Skype ID: Batsirai E Chigama

MySpace: Breezyb98

Tel: +263-(0)-775-179-168