Canada-China Brief: Joly Faces Wang Yi in Munich, Interference Inquiry Kicks Off & More

This week's edition of IPD's Canada-China Brief covers?Foreign Minister Mélanie Joly's face-to-face with Wang Yi in Munich, the first stages of Ottawa's foreign interference inquiry,?and more.

First, here is the latest from IPD:

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Charting New Waters: Assessing Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy One Year On

Co-edited by Senior Fellow Jeremy Paltiel and Executive Director Bijan Ahmadi, IPD?presents its latest volume supplementing the?2023 Indo-Pacific Strategy Forum. Assessing Canada's Indo-Pacific Strategy one year on, it features analyses from Lynette Ong, Kai Ostwald, Stephen Nagy, Karthik Nachiappan, and Kim Richard Nossal.

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In Munich, Joly and Wang 'Pragmatically' Talk Global Security

On the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference this past weekend, Foreign Affairs Minister Joly requested and sat down for her first in-person bilateral with Chinese counterpart Wang Yi. With a focus on 'pragmatic' talks, the two discussed global security including Gaza, the Red Sea, and Ukraine.

'Not rivals, let alone enemies' — Global Affairs Canada noted the spirit of Joly's 'pragmatic diplomacy' as Beijing emphasized mutual efforts:

• Ottawa's summary stated that "both Ministers agreed that bilateral issues should continue to be discussed pragmatically and constructively, in a spirit of mutual respect, with regular communication between the two sides."
• In Beijing's readout, Wang?noted that Canada has "long been at the forefront of China's relations with Western countries" and that it was "in the fundamental interests of both countries to promote the stabilization of China-Canada relations from further deterioration."
• Wang spoke of how "there is no conflict of fundamental interests" as the "two sides?are not rivals, let alone enemies," adding hope that "Canada could establish a correct understanding of China, take a long-term view of bilateral relations, and provide positive anticipation for practical cooperation."
• On challenges, Wang pointed to a need to tamp?down on the notion of a?"China threat" including?around Canada's allegations of foreign interference?and to "stop overstretching the concept of national security" regarding economic and scientific exchanges.
• Wang urged Joly?to "take concrete actions to safeguard the political foundation of bilateral relations" as she detailed how?"Canada pursues pragmatic diplomacy and is committed to improving its relations with China" and "will continue to pursue the one-China policy."

Global crises and China's role —?Joly has also elaborated on raising Ukraine and Gaza with Wang Yi as well as the need for Chinese action:

• Interviewed by Reuters, Joly said she pressed on Wang?"to help to influence the Houthis to keep the Red Sea open" as "it's in China's interests as an exporter," referring to the Yemeni group's blockage of the shipping lane over Israel's war in Gaza.
• The emphasis on the Red Sea comes as Canada supports the U.S. bombing campaign in Yemen through the Canadian Armed Forces' joint planning in?Washington's?Operation Prosperity Guardian as well as group condemnations with allies of the Houthis.
• The minister?also asserted the gap that China presents in the sanctions imposed on Moscow over the war in Ukraine, saying "we need to put maximum pressure on Russia" and that "our sanctions are strong, but China cannot be the loophole in our sanction system."
• Joly?was not alone as Ukraine's?Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba also met Wang, who told him that China "does not fan the flame, profit from the situation, or sell lethal weapons to regions and parties involved" as it "adheres to the political settlement of hotspot issues."

Ambassador Cong on Taiwan?—?Chinese Ambassador to Canada Cong Peiwu recently reasserted the "One China Policy" as a basis for ties:

• Cong recently stated in an interview that "we want dialogue. But it’s really based on the principle of mutual respect... we firmly oppose any provocative actions, especially on the Taiwan question. Anything that runs contrary to the One China principle — that’s dangerous."
• Saying naval passages by the Royal Canadian Navy are a risk to relations, including an upcoming transit by the HMCS Montreal, Cong noted that "if people don’t talk about this very basic principle, there’s no basis for fruitful and meaningful dialogue or communication.”
• In a parliamentary?defence committee hearing, Major-General Greg Smith recently testified that "we're trying to get past just démarches, which is just speaking angrily to each other, to re-establish relationships... How can we get to a more baseline discussion?"
• Also testifying on encounters with China in international waters, Major-General?Paul Prévost?of the Strategic Joint Staff said?"we're concerned about the way they're going about it, and we're having the discussions with China to try to professionalize the intercept."
• Taiwan's representative to Canada, Harry Tseng reacted in a Twitter/X post to the comments from the PRC Ambassador stating: "China demands Canada to backtrack on its IPS [i.e. Indo Pacific Strategy] objectives embodied by augmenting naval presence sailing through Taiwan Strait. This blatant request fails to pave way for a genuine dialogue, which hinges on open-mindedness and goodwill, not setting premises or drawing red lines."

What commentators think — Experts have noted that?dialogue is necessary as other powers are also on speaking terms with China:

• Stephen Saideman, Director of the Canadian Defence and Security Network, stated that both sides are "trying to de-escalate after years of much tension" but that for Canada, "We want to have a good relationship but we also don’t want to just cave into their demands."
• Jeff Mahon, Executive in Residence at the Canada West Foundation, said of China that "in an international environment, sometimes conversations need to happen quietly. There are ways to get that message across in a subtle way to save face for your counterpart."

Interference Inquiry Faces Indian Criticism, Withdrawn Witnesses

Ottawa's foreign interference inquiry into China, India, and Russia has begun in the new year but has faced hurdles as New Delhi's high officials have criticized the country's inclusion and as witnesses selected for the Chinese part of the probe have withdrawn.

India named — Leading the inquiry, Justice Marie Josée Hogue requested information on?India's role in the 2019 and 2021?elections from Ottawa:

• As part of the request, the commission conducting the process will "evaluate the actions taken in response, assess the federal government’s capacity to detect, deter, and counter foreign interference, and make recommendations on these issues."
• A recently declassified 2023 briefing from the?Canadian Security Intelligence Service stated that "the PRC sought to clandestinely and deceptively influence the 2019 and 2021 federal elections," labelling it as "by far the most significant threat."
• The briefing to?the Minister of Democratic Institutions on Foreign Interference also contained three pages on India's foreign interference that were entirely redacted save for a statement that "India engages in [foreign interference]?activities."
• Meanwhile, a 2021 CSIS assessment introduced into the inquiry's hearings judged that Beijing is "primarily motivated by a desire to cultivate relationships or support political candidates or incumbents who seem receptive or actively promote PRC viewpoints."

Back and forth — Officials have made contradictory statements over whether India is voluntarily cooperating with Canada's investigation:

• Despite the diplomatic row over?allegations of India's assassination of a Canadian citizen, outgoing National Security Advisor Jody Thomas suggested that "my discussions with my counterpart in India have been fruitful, and I think they’ve moved things forward."
• Acknowledging the U.S. role in supporting Canada, she stated that "the information that they revealed supported our position and our assertions with India. India is working with us, and my counterpart, in particular, far more closely to resolve this."
• In a separate interview, Thomas said that?the withdrawal of dozens of Canadian diplomats was "counterproductive because it's harmed the people-to-people relationship between Canada and India. We need diplomats there."
• India's High Commissioner to Canada?Sanjay Kumar Verma contradicted Thomas' claim that India was cooperating with Ottawa in a recent interview, saying that "we need relevant and specific evidence for us to help the Canadian authorities."
• “Unless we see something relevant and specific, it would be extremely difficult for us to do anything to help," saying that Ottawa has not lodged a request and that "If anyone challenges the territorial integrity of India, there will be consequences."

New Delhi hits back?— India has further critiqued the inquiry's addition of India in its proceedings:

• India's Minister of External Affairs Subrahmanyam Jaishankar commented on India's inclusion, saying?that "a lot of this has to do with Canadian politics. You know they have?that they have a long record of interfering in Indian politics."
• Jaishankar, however, also played down the row, stating that?"I wouldn't?blow it out of all proportion.?To be very honest, let us say in the last 3-4 months,?it wouldn't have figured in more than a handful of meetings, if that."
• Randhir Jaiswal, a Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson, declared that "we strongly reject such baseless allegations of Indian interference in Canadian elections. It is not [the] Government of India’s policy to interfere in the democratic process of other countries.”
• Jaiswal added that "in fact, it is Canada which has been interfering in our internal affairs. We have been raising this issue regularly with them. We continue to call on Canada to take effective measures to address our core concerns."

Witnesses withdraw?— Two groups have since ceased their participation in?the inquiry commission:

• The Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project announced it would pull back?from the commission due to the status granted?to Senator Yuen Pau Woo and?former Liberal MP Han Dong, stating "we don't want to participate in an inquiry that is empowering individuals like that."
• A second group —?Canadian Friends of Hong Kong — also withdrew, citing "grave concerns regarding the objectivity and the security integrity... primarily due to standing being granted to individuals suspected to have strong ties to the Chinese consulates."

What commentators think — Observers have noted that interference and those responsible are still not widely understood:

• Neil Bisson,?director of the Global Intelligence Knowledge Network, stated that?“it’s not just China and Russia" especially "if you take a look at the Indian government not wanting Canada to become an area where Sikh separatists can essentially look at organizing."
• Richard Fadden, former head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, testified to the commission that "things are classified more than they need to be...?Our close allies are much, much more open than we are."
• Harry Ho-jen Tseng, Representative of the?Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada, argued?that "if China can do that for [the elections in] 2019 and 2021, getting involved in the Chinese diaspora, I think they can do it again."
• Li Haidong, a professor at China Foreign Affairs University, stated that the focus on China?in the inquiry contributes to "a very unwise and foolish approach that undermines the comprehensive connection and mutual understanding between China and Canada."

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING

While it is in Canada’s interests to manage the relationship with China constructively and engage in dialogue at the highest level, we must do so in line with our national interests and without surrendering to Beijing’s pre-conditions...?This approach requires a clear articulation of Canada’s strategic objectives with respect to China and the deployment of deft diplomacy in pursuit of those objectives. Whether Canada can achieve that in 2024 remains to be seen.

— Vina Nadijibulla, Vice President, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada

It’s imperative that we continue to deepen our understanding and engagement at this people-to-people level. And as we think about our understanding in the West of China, I think it is very weak – it’s frankly, pathetic – how much we understand of the civilization and the culture...?China is not a big market only. It’s a source of innovation. It’s a source of talent. And it’s going to be a source of new ways of thinking that can benefit us all.

— Dominic Barton, former Canadian Ambassador to China

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IMAGE CREDIT: CHINESE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS?| S. JAISHANKAR