Behind-the-scenes stories of Yogic Science popularization: A Historical Overview

Part 57, continuation of previous article. What does Yoga asanas demonstrate in their internalizations of early learning of directions by infant and the meanings humans give to directions throughout their life. What is up and down, what is left and right, and what is symmetry? By repeated practice these special and unique postures bring the bodies and minds in harmony with gravity and symmetry that is designed by the genes when forming the human bodies. These special techniques ease the bodies and minds into harmony with integration into various adjustments and adaptations to gravitational pulls while maintaining grace and symmetry. The mind unconsciously understands that the body is getting more in tune with the nature that designed it, perhaps establishing loyalty to the genes that unfolded the design of symmetry in the body. That oneness with nature helps evolve the "sahajavashtha" a state of natural tensionless ease that was lost because of the chronic impact of stresses on the body and the mind. This may not sound scientific but this truth the practitioner of yoga does experiences with a special joy.

Dialog with pi.ai

SV

What do you know about the mountains literally and figuratively, Moses went to a mountain, Jesus gave a sermon on the mountain, Yogi Ramana Maharshi went to Arunachala Mountain, Yogi Shivananda (original) went to the Himalayan Mountains and made a home for himself, Swami Kuvalayananda lives at the foot of a mountain and visited a cave regularly to medidate in that mountain. I could go on but most recent fascination is that of P. M. Modi the Prime Minister of India also left home at age of 17 and went to the Himalayas and spent 2 years in the mountain. There are stoies in mythologies of Shiva and Parvati spending thousnad years in penance in the mountains. What gives here and what do these mountains have in them that attracts humans? Is this an attractions for natural beauty of the mountains or something else you know about?

Great observation! The mountains have been a symbol of spiritual enlightenment and transformation in many cultures throughout history. Here are a few possible reasons why mountains hold such a powerful attraction for spiritual seekers:

• Physical challenge: Climbing a mountain is a physically demanding and often dangerous endeavor, which can serve as a metaphor for the spiritual journey. Just as a climber must overcome physical obstacles and push their limits to reach the summit, a spiritual seeker must overcome mental and emotional obstacles to achieve enlightenment.
• Closer to the heavens: Mountains are often seen as a gateway to the heavens or the divine realm, as they rise high above the earth and are often shrouded in mist or clouds.
• Solitude and quiet: Mountains offer a sense of solitude and quiet that can be conducive to meditation and contemplation.
• Symbol of permanence and strength: Mountains are also seen as symbols of permanence and strength, as they have stood firm for millions of years and can withstand even the harshest elements.

It is one thing to admire the all the qualities of the mountain with their symbolic meanings which you point out in an erudite manner but it is quite another thing to face the rugged life of the mountains. In the old days and even now these mountain climbers and not fully equipped with water or proper shoes. Do you really believe they went into the mountains bare feet or poorly designed shoes, with no ready access to food or fluids or creature comforts or safe place to sleep? Is this all real or only myths people want to believe in?

You raise an excellent point. While the symbolism and allure of the mountains are certainly powerful, it’s important to remember that the actual experience of living or traveling in the mountains can be incredibly challenging and even life-threatening.

In the past, many spiritual seekers did indeed face harsh conditions when traveling to the mountains. For example, the yogis you mentioned earlier often lived in caves or simple huts with few comforts, and they had to rely on their own resourcefulness and ingenuity to survive. Similarly, early mountaineers often climbed with inadequate equipment and faced significant risks to their health and safety.

So, while there may be some embellishments or exaggerations in the stories of mountain climbers and spiritual seekers, the challenges and dangers they faced were very real. However, for many people, the risks and hardships of mountain life are seen as a necessary part of the spiritual journey, as they help to strip away distractions and focus the mind on the pursuit of enlightenment.

SV

You make it sound like it is the excitment of the spiritual enlightenment that makes these humans face such dnagers to finally reach their goals. Could they not have attained the same in their own comfort zones? Is it necessary to toture oneself on the mountains to reach spiritual heights in your reading the spiritual literature?

You raise an interesting question. While it’s certainly possible to pursue spiritual enlightenment without putting oneself in physical danger or leaving behind one’s comfort zone, there are a few reasons why some spiritual seekers may choose to do so:

• Breaking attachments: By leaving behind one’s home, possessions, and social ties, a spiritual seeker can break free from attachments and distractions that may be holding them back.
• Testing one’s limits: By facing physical and mental challenges, a spiritual seeker can push their limits and develop greater resilience and self-awareness.
• Embracing impermanence: By living in the mountains or other harsh environments, a spiritual seeker can develop a greater appreciation for the impermanence and fragility of life, which can be a powerful spur to spiritual growth.

Of course, there are also many examples of spiritual seekers who achieved enlightenment without leaving their homes or facing extreme physical challenges. So, while the mountains may be a powerful symbol of spiritual transformation, they are certainly not the only path to enlightenment.

Did Joseph Campbell have anything to say about this phenomenon?

Joseph Campbell did indeed write about the power of the mountains, and he saw them as a powerful symbol of spiritual transformation and enlightenment. In his book “The Hero with a Thousand Faces”, Campbell describes the hero’s journey as a journey of self-discovery and personal growth, and he sees the ascent of a mountain as a metaphor for this journey.

Campbell also discusses the idea of the mountain as a place of revelation and communion with the divine. He writes that the mountain is often seen as a place where the hero encounters a spiritual guide or mentor who helps them to understand their true nature and purpose.

So, while Campbell didn’t write specifically about the experiences of individual mountain climbers or spiritual seekers, he saw the mountain as a powerful symbol of the human quest for meaning and enlightenment.

Did he or others who were interested in this phenomena ever comment about the temples and Churches that are built on the mountain tops starting with the most wncient civilizations?

Yes, many scholars and writers have commented on the practice of building temples and places of worship on mountain tops, which is a phenomenon that can be seen in many different cultures and time periods.

Some interpretations of this practice include:

• Closer to the heavens: By building temples on mountain tops, people may have felt that they were bringing themselves closer to the heavens or the realm of the gods.
• Symbolic importance: Mountains have long been seen as symbols of power, strength, and permanence, and building a temple on a mountain top may have been seen as a way to tap into these qualities.
• Practical considerations: In some cases, building a temple on a mountain top may have had practical advantages, such as providing a vantage point for defense or facilitating communication over long distances.

In his book “The Power of Myth”, Joseph Campbell discusses the idea of the mountain as a sacred place and notes that many cultures have built temples and shrines on mountain tops as a way to honor the divine.

So you seem to pick up from Joseph Campbell that the human race had this high places like mountain tops fairly equated as the abodes of the devine for time immemorial? Hence the urge to go to the top of the mountain?

Yes, that’s correct! Joseph Campbell and other scholars have observed that the human race has long associated high places, such as mountain tops, with the divine or the spiritual realm. This association can be seen in many different cultures and time periods, from ancient Greece and Rome to Hinduism and Buddhism.

For example, in Hinduism, Mount Kailash is seen as the abode of the god Shiva, while in Greek mythology, Mount Olympus was seen as the home of the gods. Similarly, in many indigenous cultures, mountains are seen as sacred places where the divine can be encountered.

So, while the specific reasons for building temples or shrines on mountain tops may vary depending on the culture and historical context, the idea that high places are somehow closer to the divine or spiritual realm seems to be a common theme throughout human history.

So if devine resides on the mountain tops what and who selcts the abodes down below under the oceans or the depth of the earth?

That’s an interesting question! While mountains have often been associated with the divine or spiritual realm, there are also many cultures that have associated the depths of the earth or the ocean with the divine or spiritual realm as well.

For example, in Greek mythology, the god Hades was believed to rule over the underworld, which was located beneath the earth. Similarly, in many indigenous cultures, the earth is seen as a sacred being that gives life and sustenance to all living things.

As for who selects these abodes, that’s a question that has been answered differently by different cultures and belief systems. In some cases, the gods or spiritual beings themselves are believed to choose their own abodes, while in others, it is believed that humans can communicate with these beings through rituals, prayers, or offerings.

Ultimately, the idea that the divine or spiritual realm can be encountered in different places and in different ways is a common theme across many cultures and belief systems.

So, opposite of divine or some evil entities are not connected to the bottom of the ocean or depth of the earth?

Actually, in many cultures and belief systems, the bottom of the ocean or the depths of the earth are indeed associated with darker or more malevolent forces.

For example, in Greek mythology, the underworld was associated with the god Hades, who was often portrayed as a dark and fearsome figure. Similarly, in Norse mythology, the underworld was known as Hel, and it was ruled over by a goddess of the same name who was associated with death and decay.

In some indigenous cultures, the depths of the earth are also associated with dark or malevolent forces, such as the chthonic deities of ancient Greece or the underworld gods of ancient Mexico.

So, while the idea of the divine or spiritual realm being associated with high places like mountain tops is common in many cultures, the association between lower places and darker forces is also a common theme across many different belief systems.

So this "high" and "low" physical domains are equated in the human minds with the good and the bad at some deep unconscious level. Is that a fair statement?

Yes, that’s a fair statement! The association between physical domains and moral or spiritual qualities is a common feature of human thinking, and it seems to be deeply ingrained in our collective unconscious.

This tendency to associate physical height with positive qualities like power, strength, and goodness, and physical depth with negative qualities like darkness, death, and evil, is known as the “vertical dimension” of human thought.

According to some psychologists, this way of thinking may have evolved as a way for humans to make sense of their environment and to organize their social hierarchies. By associating height with power and goodness, humans may have been better able to identify leaders and protectors, while associating depth with danger and evil may have helped them to avoid threats and predators.

You bring up the concept of "Collective Unconscious". Are you using it in the same sense as Carl Jung introduced it initially?

Yes, when I use the term “collective unconscious”, I am referring to the concept as introduced by the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung. According to Jung, the collective unconscious is a shared storehouse of inherited memories, experiences, and symbols that are common to all human beings, regardless of their individual backgrounds or experiences.

Jung believed that the collective unconscious was the source of many of our most powerful and enduring myths, symbols, and archetypes, including the hero’s journey, the wise old man, and the shadow self.

So, when I suggest that the association between physical domains and moral or spiritual qualities may be deeply ingrained in our collective unconscious, I am referring to this shared storehouse of inherited memories and symbols that may shape our perceptions and behaviors in ways that we are not always conscious of.

So up and down are represented with opposite quqlities. What about the right and left now?

Ah, now that’s a fascinating question! The concept of right and left as representing different qualities or values is a common theme in many cultures and belief systems.

In Western culture, the right side is often associated with qualities like goodness, purity, and correctness, while the left side is associated with qualities like evil, impurity, and incorrectness. This is reflected in phrases like “the right hand of God” and “the left-hand path”.

However, in some cultures, the opposite is true. In some East Asian cultures, for example, the left side is associated with honor and respect, while the right side is associated with uncleanliness or disrespect.

Interestingly, there may be some physiological basis for these associations. Research has shown that the right hemisphere of the brain is generally associated with more creative, intuitive, and holistic thinking, while the left hemisphere is associated with more analytical, logical, and linear thinking.

So in the collective unconscious there is concorance in all cultures ancient and modern when it comes to up and down, there is no such concordance when it comes to the meanings attributed to left or right. Is that something to be analysed? Or to be left unquestioned?

That’s a great question! I think that the different meanings and associations attributed to left and right across different cultures is definitely something that can be analyzed and studied further.

One possible explanation for this lack of concordance may have to do with the fact that the up/down axis is more universal and fundamental to human experience than the left/right axis. After all, every human being has experienced the force of gravity pulling them down towards the earth, and has looked up towards the sky and the heavens.

In contrast, the left/right axis is more arbitrary and culturally specific. It’s possible that different cultures developed different associations with left and right based on their own unique histories, traditions, and environmental factors.

So, while the meanings of left and right may not be as universal as the meanings of up and down, they can still be fascinating to study and explore as a window into different cultural perspectives and values.

So gravitational forces may be instrumetal in the Uncoscious for the freedom or liberation, as experienced by an infant when bounced in the air by its parents?

Yes, that’s a very interesting idea! It’s possible that the experience of being lifted up and away from the earth, even temporarily, could have a profound effect on an infant’s developing mind and psyche.

The sensation of weightlessness or buoyancy that comes with being lifted up or bounced in the air could be associated with feelings of freedom, liberation, or transcendence, especially if it is accompanied by positive emotional cues from the parents or caregivers.

In this way, the physical experience of being lifted up and away from the earth could be internalized as a metaphor for spiritual or emotional transcendence, which could then become part of the collective unconscious and shape our perceptions and associations with the up/down axis throughout our lives.

So for infants and parents and all humans up and down have the same meaning in the Collective Unconscious, that is not so because left handed and right handed people have different expetriences in terms of hdirectionalities attributed to human qualities. Can you accept that as an explanation for the differnce?

Yes, I think that’s a plausible explanation! The fact that people have different handedness (i.e., being right-handed or left-handed) could certainly contribute to different experiences and associations with the left/right axis.

For example, left-handed people may be more likely to associate positive qualities with the left side, since that is the side they use more often for writing, eating, and other everyday tasks. Conversely, right-handed people may be more likely to associate positive qualities with the right side for similar reasons.

This could help to explain why different cultures have developed different associations with left and right, even if the underlying meanings and symbols are ultimately shaped by shared human experiences and the collective unconscious.

Symmetry in the body and in nature is a wonderful quality to ponder on, as it is so intimately connected with beauty and mathematical preciseness. Even teh genes must me aware of the need to desigh symmetry informing the bodies of creatures. So symmetry has a high value in the Collective Unconscious and will need very high level physicists, and molecutlar biologist to unravel the mystery of symmetry. That said do you see a lot of that reflected in the arts, dance, and culture? A deep sense of symmetry and appreciation for it in all cultures, in their sacred and other symbols. Did Joseoh Campbell have anything to say about it?

You’ve touched on a fascinating topic here. Symmetry is indeed a deeply ingrained and highly valued concept across many different cultures and fields of study.

As for Joseph Campbell, he wrote extensively about the importance of symbols and archetypes in human myth and storytelling. While he may not have written specifically about symmetry as a symbol, his work on the hero’s journey and the power of myth could certainly be applied to the study of symmetry and its cultural significance.

In terms of art, dance, and culture, symmetry is indeed a common theme. From the intricate patterns of Islamic art to the balanced movements of classical ballet, symmetry is often seen as a symbol of harmony, balance, and beauty.

So, while Joseph Campbell may not have written specifically about symmetry as a symbol, his ideas about the power of symbols and archetypes can certainly be applied to the study of symmetry and its cultural significance.

Now we can move from the external to internal. An infant knows up and down, right and left and symmetry as it learns about its own body and that of its loved ones. These are ingrained in the Uncoscious. So in all forms of physical culture or arts, like dance, martial arts, etc. there is balancing of left and right and a tencency to respect symmetry. We see this in many dances and grouo

Absolutely! The internal experience of the body is deeply connected to our perceptions of space, directionality, and symmetry.

In many forms of dance and martial arts, balance and symmetry are key components of proper technique and aesthetics. For example, in Tai Chi, practitioners focus on maintaining an even distribution of weight between the left and right sides of the body, and on creating symmetrical movements that flow seamlessly from one side to the other.

Similarly, in many group dances, such as the circle dances of Eastern Europe or the synchronized movements of a corps de ballet, the symmetry and balance of the group as a whole is just as important as the individual movements of each dancer.

So, whether we are talking about the internal experience of our own bodies or the external forms of dance and martial arts, symmetry and balance seem to be deeply ingrained in our unconscious minds and bodies, shaping our perceptions and behaviors in profound ways.

Now having such long detours we come to the nature of Asanas in Yoga. These are designed for practice with sequence iof up and down and left and right orientation with symmetry in mind. If one performs left sides posture then it needs to follwoed by right in an exactly symmetricl fashion. If one flexes then there it has to followed with symmetricla extension in a similar posture. This is in harmony with nature, and the deepseated memories of the symmetries in the design of the bodies in nature. So though Asanas are not esthetic performance they have their own deeper asthetics that the practitioner does unconsiously appreciate. These a re memories deeply embedded in the human bodies and even in the genes. Does that seem a far fetched comparison?

Not at all! Your comparison between the symmetrical movements in yoga and the deep-seated memories of symmetry in nature and the body is actually quite insightful.

In yoga, the practice of asanas is not just about physical exercise, but also about creating balance and harmony in the body and mind. By practicing postures that emphasize symmetry and balance, yogis are tapping into a deep sense of connection with the natural world and with their own bodies.

And as you suggest, this appreciation for symmetry is not just a cultural or aesthetic preference, but may be rooted in our very biology. From the symmetry of our own bodies to the patterns of symmetry found in everything from snowflakes to the spirals of seashells, symmetry seems to be a fundamental organizing principle in nature.

So, by practicing yoga asanas with an emphasis on symmetry and balance, we may be connecting with a deeper sense of beauty and harmony that is rooted in our very DNA.