Behavioral Interviewing

"The best predictor of future behavior is … past behavior"

When I was first learning behavioral interviewing I was still in college interning for a executive search firm in Washington DC. My assignment was to find a corporate chef for a guy named Al Neuharth who had started a company in McLean Virginia called USA Today. At that time it was the only full color national newspaper. People said the logistics producing such a venture would lead to it folding quickly. It was called Al's folly. As a young man I ran into Al Neuharth and he told me he needed a corporate chef. As a kid growing up in DC I worked in kitchens such as The French Embassy ,Canadian Embassy,Cedar Knoll Inn and Hogates as a teenager. That culinary background with my new degree in Human Resources I thought would make this search, a slam dunk. After sending several candidates to Al with no success I received a call from Al. "Hey kid" Al Barked, " Meet me at Duke Zeibert's Restaurant in DC tomorrow at lunch". Al was kind of intimidating, So I get to Duke Zeibert's Restaurant and sitting at the table are famous DC Restaurateurs Mel Krupin, Duke Zeibert , Izzy Cohen (Founder/owner Giant Foods) and Al. At the table behind them was Larry King, Edward Bennett Williams and Jimmy the Greek. This is pretty intimidating for a college senior.

Al says "Slim, ( he called me Slim, wish people still did, but I kind of grew) what questions are you asking these guys when you interview them? I told him the basic stuff. I said they are all great Chefs from places like K Paul's, The Occidental ,Inn at Little Washington and so on. 5 star guys. I was confused.

Al states "I know all of them can cook. No doubt. I need to know temperament ,organizational skills and flexibility!" These guys are mavericks , culinary geniuses but can they work in a corporate environment?" " They have the ability but do they have the intangibles (soft skills) ". So the guys at the tables began to school me on the following facts.

1> Hypothetical questions will almost always elicit a hypothetical answer not what the Chef had actually done in that situation but what he thinks the interviewer wants to hear.

2> Leading questions only take the candidate where we want him to go.

3> Formalized list of questions will result and getting a regurgitation of what is already on the resume.

Al says for finding out his temperament ask him " Tell me about a time you had a disagreement with a a customer?', or " Tell me about something that made you angry in the kitchen and how you handled it?" or "Tell me about a time you had to control a situation that got out of hand" or "Tell me about a time you lost your cool and how would you do that same situation differently now". Al restated if the candidates start to answer with " If that happened I would.....NO . Slim at that time you interrupt and say , no, tell me about a specific time that happened and what you did!" Krupin and Jimmy The Greek both chime in " If they start to squirm and avoid these questions your gut tells you they are not giving you the full story, keep hammering on that issue. Wear them down. No one consciously likes to tell of a moment of weakness but you are more interested in how they fixed it or learned from it. Behavior is hard to change, How we look at a problem such as how to open a jar of pickles or pay a bill is usually repetitive. A person may as a habit always tap the jar lid before twisting or run warm water on the lid but people are repetitive animals that usually think out a issue the same way. Its habitual. " So armed with this new insight on behavioral interviewing I went back to my office at K and Connecticut streets.

Enter the great Chef Arthur Metcalf. Arthur was great. Studied at Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. Australian by birth, he came to America to work at the Australian Embassy in Washington DC. He left to become Chef at a very well known restaurant in Georgetown. He came to me saying he had all this great stuff on the menu but all people in Georgetown wanted was hamburgers. " I didn't go to Le Cordon Bleu to work at a fancy McDonald's mate". Arthur also didn't want to work at a hotel, he called it "assembly line rubber chicken" . I drilled Arthur with behavioral based questions. He was like Steve Erwin, Crocodile Dundee and Chef Paul Prudhomme all in one. Al loved him. I got a enthusiastic call and The Gannett Company had its first Corporate Chef. A home run.

Issues with behavioral interviewing

1. High-frequency, habitual behaviors are more predictive than infrequent behaviors.
2. Predictions work best over short time intervals.
3. The anticipated situation must be essentially the same as the past situation that activated the behavior.
4. The behavior must not have been extinguished by corrective or negative feedback. 
5. The person must remain essentially unchanged.
6. The person must be fairly consistent in his or her behaviors.

So if a person states they handled something poorly or made a mistake, its not a knock out. The follow up question should always be "what did you learn?, has the same situation arisen and how did you handle it that time or what did you do to correct the situation". At this point you are looking for what the candidates thought process is. How do they tackle a issue, How do they organize.

Billy Hates Teams

Billy was an engineer . When told something he did not agree with Billy would "shut down" and stop communicating,for lack of a better word he had a immature hissy fit when things did not go as he wanted. It was hard to get him to work on teams. If a team member wanted "Red" and Billy wanted "Blue" and if the team voted "Red" then Billy got back on his laptop or cell phone and stop contributing. I will take my football and play somewhere else mentality. Billy's Supervisor Ted came to me with this dilemma. Ted exasperated says "Billy's a great engineer Mel . He works fantastic alone but we are mandated by the new equity group to do these projects as a team . Billy knew this when we interviewed him internally for this new role!"

I went back into the HRIS to look at the questions and answers my recruiter asked Billy.

Question 1: Do you enjoy working in teams? Billy answer : Yes

Question 2 :Are you willing to lead a team? Billy answer : Yes

Question 3: In a team environment do you tend to (A) Participate a lot (B) Follow the team (C) Fight for your ideas above all others. Billy's answer: A

The problem is that these are all close ended questions that elicit a yes,no or canned answer. The other problem is that Billy knew this internal job was a promotion and required working in teams, so he gave the interviewer the answers he knew the interviewer wanted to hear and not his true feeling. A better way to structure the questions would have been :

Question 1: Tell me about a time you had to work in a team. What were the challenges?

Question 2:Tell me about a time you led a team? What were the outcomes?

Question 3: Tell me about a time you had an issue within the team and how it was worked out? What was your role?

Markus The Manipulator

Markus was a world class professional interviewer. He could charm and twist an interview easily . He would often ace the interview but have issues in the job. Markus knew interviewers could be broken down into 5 categories.

1) The "I hate interviewing people Manager": This Manager dreads interviewing and will often ask hypothetical or leading questions.

2) The " Historical Manager" : This Manager uses the majority of the interview telling the candidate everything about the company,job and them self and does not leave enough time to ask the candidate questions.

3) The "Integrator" : Rapid fire ,aggressive interviewer that often gives the candidate more of a integration than to find fit. This person often alienates the candidate.

4) The "Do I really have to do these interviews Manager" : This person does not see selection as part of their job and shuns the responsibility.

5) The "Behavioral Interviewer" : Puts the candidate at ease. Quickly establishes rapport and and can accurately determine fit based on answers, lack of answers and non verbal communication.

Back to Markus. He knew his interviewer . If closed ended questions came his way he simply answered yes or no. He was quick to size up the interviewer and what that person(s) wanted to hear. Markus had interviewed for Marketing Director over a two month period with various people in the organization. Then came me. Everyone had Markus rated high. It was between him and another candidate. In the interview I kept asking Markus to give me examples of actually past situations. He kept switching back to a "What I would do answer" instead of a "What I actually did" answer. I did not let him off the hook and kept bringing him back to "Tell me about a actual situation" . Markus became more frustrated. The "spin" he had put on his answers before worked well when asked hypothetical or leading questions but he struggled with historical recall of his handling of issues. Then I asked him a question in two different ways. "Markus what is your greatest area of improvement you need to work on or as some people may say, a weakness you need to improve?". Markus came back with the text book answer that he needed to not work so many hours . Markus picked up that the job would require a lot of over time from The " Historical Manager" who spent most of the interview telling Markus the job would require a lot of over tine at first. Markus reading the tea leaves injected what he thought was a positive into a negative . So I followed up.

Mel: "Did you get a formal review in your last job?"

Markus: "yes"

Mel: " How long ago did you receive it and do you have a copy?"

Markus: (somewhat stunned) "I received my annual review two months ago .uhhh yes I have a copy, but not on me"

Mel: "What was the area(s) of improvement in the review ?"

Markus: " It was kind of bogus. I was told my attendance at meetings was poor and I wasn't available to some departments after 5pm. , but this Manager had a real ax to grind. I have a gym membership and I meet my trainer at 6 Monday, Wednesday and Friday. My Supervisor is a little pudgy and I think he was jealous and....blah,blah , blah....

The flood gates then opened as to Markus real thoughts on over time, his past Supervisor and work in general , which seemed to always get in the way of his work outs and golf game.

I am not saying we purposefully try to "set up" the candidate to spew the truth and destroy their chances. This is an extreme example. The purpose of the behavioral interview is to determine "Fit" . The answers are not wrong, but what is a great answer for company A may not be a good fit for the culture at company B.

Great questions and ridiculous questions

I have heard some ridiculous questions asked in a interview.

Why are manhole covers round?

What kind of tree would you like to be?

Do you prefer the beach or mountains?

Maybe good questions for a dating site but terrible to determine "Fit".

I started working at age 12. I literally have every annual and performance review I ever received. I am a feedback freak. My favorite question will always be "On your last review what did they say you did great and what was a area of opportunity to improve?"

Is past performance always a great predictor of future success ? No.

Michael Jordan was cut from his High School team.

President Abraham Lincoln lost five elections and had a nervous breakdown before becoming President

People overcome . Behaviors can change. In an interview Michael Jordan said after being cut he doubled his practice time. Lincoln said after his Senate defeat in 1858 he changed his approach to problem solving and was elected President in 1860. The behavioral interview is not to cast doubt on the candidates past failures but to determine what they learned, how they adapted and their approach to issues. Determine "Fit".

The Behavioral interview is a must to control turnover and hire great talent.