Arash Massoudi: Chasing scoops and covering the business of sports at the Financial Times

What's their story?

On our season 3 premiere of Press Profiles, we’re doing our “Due Diligence” with the FT's corporate finance and deals editor. Arash Massoudi grew up in Tallahassee, Florida but has made himself a successful career across the pond reporting on the biggest corporate deals, and most recently, the growing intersection of sports and business. Arash’s journey to London included an unpaid internship for the Charlie Rose show, one failed job as a waiter, and a position in The White House with the Obama administration. We get into all those stints, discuss what he’s focused on today, where he sees the future of his reporting, our shared love for sports, where to eat in London, broken bathroom doors, and of course, a whole lot more.

Listen and subscribe to the episode here (or wherever you get your podcasts) and continue reading to following along with the episode transcript.

??????????????????????????????? ??ARASH MASSOUDI:

Hi, this is Arash Massoudi, corporate finance and deals editor from The Financial Times coming to you from London, and you are listening to Press Profiles.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Welcome back, everybody, to Press Profiles. I'm Russell Sherman, and this week, we are taking the show on the road. We are in London, our Prosek Partners offices, and we are recording this in front of a studio audience made up of dozens of my Prosek colleagues. Welcome, everybody. (APPLAUSE)

It's good to have you here on a beautiful rooftop overlooking the city. Today on Press Profiles, we're joined by one of London's finest, Arash Massoudi, the corporate finance and deals reporter at the FT. We'll talk about some of his big scoops, his upbringing in the U.S., how he got into reporting via the Obama administration.'

We'll discuss the creation of the population Due Diligence FT newsletter, his recent focus on the business of sports, some fun facts about him. All that, and, of course, a whole lot more. Here now is Arash Massoudi on location in London on Press Profiles.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Hello. (LAUGHTER) I didn't know that was a cue.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

It's a cue for you to speak.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Thanks for havin' me.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

We're still workin' out these live recordings, (LAUGHTER) by the way. We need, like, the applause sign and when you guys should all chime in. It's all very important--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

You've got a good podcast voice. I need to emulate.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I think you'll do just fine. All right. So, wanted to talk about a bunch of different things. You've had this fantastic career. As we talked about, you joined the FT in 2011, done a lot of really interesting things, created the Due Diligence newsletter, which we'll talk about.

But I wanted to start by talkin' about two different stories that you broke two years apart, one in 2016 and one in 2018, and how those two things are related, because I think it's indicative of, probably, how you pursue your job and a little bit of a window into how journalists operate.

So, in 2016, SoftBank acquires a U.K. chip maker called Arm, a $32-billion deal, big technology deal. You break the news in the FT, a big coup. And then, in 2018, couple years later, Arash breaks the news that Tesla has received a significant investment from the Saudis.

And shortly thereafter (by "shortly" I'm thinkin' 30 minutes), Elon Musk gets on Twitter and tweets, "We're takin' this thing private. Funding secured." Huge news moment, and two huge news moments for you. How are those two things related? And how did the story about SoftBank lead to the story on Tesla?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Well, thanks for havin' me. And I should just say many of the people you've had on from the FT in previous editions have been mentors of mine, so it's quite an honor to take part in this. So, the 2016 story, luck. There's a lot more luck I think than people think in these things but a bit of skill, too.

What actually happened (and I've been thinkin' about this for a while) was that I had been curious about SoftBank. I just had a feeling, and I get these feelings about certain characters in the market, that I need to understand it better. They're gonna become interesting, and I need to get in there.

And SoftBank had been on my radar. They had owned Sprint in the U.S. And it just seemed like something that people didn't understand properly, and it's complex, and it's international. And the reason that story broke was because they transferred 10 billion let's call it dollars for argument's sake from Japan to the U.K. on the Thursday prior.

And this is just after the Brexit vote. Country's in shock, and everyone's on high alert about everything. And the yen-sterling, whatever, conversion rate moved because of some reason. What just happened that caused sterling to-- I don't remember if it was strengthened or weakened, but it moved the money, and I assume it strengthened against the yen.

And so, there's this $10 billion movement, and I believe a reporter at Reuters on the currency desk started calling around about this and tipped off their colleagues that something had happened. Maybe it was M&A related. And everyone's chasing this big deal, and they think it's in telecoms, but no one really knows what it is.

So, we make dozens of phone calls in that Friday, Saturday, Sunday period. And, by the way, I had not really heard of Arm or really understood what a chip designer was, so I had nothin'. And eventually, I found the right person, maybe I had already tried them, and they filled in some details.

And then, I called Richard Waters, our longtime West Coast bureau chief. And he actually explained what the heck Arm was and why is significant, 'cause I didn't have that. I just had buyer, seller, price, and "Be at the Mandarin (LAUGH) Oriental at 8:00 a.m. to beat Masa--"

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Wow.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--and get to bed. And that was probably 2:00 a.m. by the time it went up. So, that story happened. And that unleashed a journey, because then, the more significant thing was that SoftBank then raises this $100 billion fund with the Saudis. And because of that story, I had been in with some people, which gave me an inside track to the whole Saudi thing, which then I told a series of stories of how that fund was born, and I called it "the $100 billion marriage."

And the Arm deal was all about Masa not having enough money to pay for the deal. He had his lackeys run around the Gulf to find money, and they discovered there was all this pockets of money that could be tapped and that he needed for financing Arm.

So, that began that whole story of telling the Vision Fund and how these different elements came together. And along that journey, you meet people. And, again, Tesla is not something I covered very well or I wasn't too familiar with the Tesla story. I mean, I knew the basics, but I wasn't deep on it. And I pieced together that there was a 5% stake taken by Saudi Arabia in Tesla in the summer of 2018. And then, Elon does this tweet, which was not expecting. We called him for comment. He no commented. Then, the saga began.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Right after that.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

But the hilarious thing is no one really followed up with me. And it was a bad time for us because it was August. Everyone was on holiday. We were on a bare-bones thing. And so, what we needed to do was really attack that story for the days to come and own it.

What ended up happening is we didn't own it, and then the U.S. press, and it got spun into this sob story about Elon's mental health, and dah dah dah dah dah, and like, "Oh, he's, like, sleeping on the floor of his thing," and, like, (LAUGHTER) all this stuff, you know? And it's like the guy was also partying, doin' drugs in Israel, so, I mean, (LAUGHTER) it wasn't like. It just got told in this way, like.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

You didn't really get credit for that story the way that you--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I think--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--could have.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--credit, whatever. That's for my ego and whatever. It was a little bit bruised, but (LAUGHTER) it was more that, like, I understood the situation better than most people. And I think we got written out of the story because, as (UNINTEL) reported at the time, Saudi Arabia approached Elon in March, April of 2018 and said, "Hey, we want to buy shares. Just issue us 5%. We don't have to do it in the market. We want to buy primary shares. You just issue it to us, and we'll make it happen."

And he said no for whatever reason. And then, they ended up havin' to build this stake in the market. And so, there was no discussion. And anyone who knows anything about the Saudi wealth fund, especially at that time, was like, "Unless Mohammed bin Salman has personally signed off on it, there's nothing goin' on."

You can have conversations about buying anything, but at that point, he's a micromanager. So, unless he had personally given his blessings to pursue this transaction, there was no discussions of a transaction. And that was quite relevant to the story, and I think I went on CNBC at the time and said, "I have no indications there are serious conversation about taking Tesla private with Saudi Arabia."

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

But later, there's a trial. Elon's on trial for basically doing that tweet and causing people to either gain or lose money based on what side of the deal they were on. And then, Elon says, "Well, it was actually the FT that broke the story, and so it wasn't me that said it first."

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, and then he panicked and that he thought--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, credit or recognition--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--you actually got in in the trial--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

(LAUGH) Yeah--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--a couple years later.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Exactly. (LAUGH) 'Cause I think Felix Salmon at the time did a tweet, though I'm not keepin' score, (LAUGHTER) did a tweet at the time bein' like, "I don't see causation or correlation. I don't see how these two things are linked, your story and his tweet." It's like, "All right, dude. (LAUGHTER) All right, whatever you want."

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Follow the money. That's what happened there. You were obviously, "Here was the finances," then it was in Saudi, and then those same finances were used for the.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, you just go on a journey. It's not too dissimilar with I cover bankers fundamentally, and, well, that's what they do. And it's the same thing. I think it gets to maybe something you want to come to, but I had observed, when I was in the government, that a lot of conversations are between a senior reporter and a communications person, and they're not really getting into what's actually going on.

And so, I was reading some very prestigious (LAUGHTER) U.S. publications while sitting in the Obama administration and occasionally know about the topic. And I would sometimes (I'm not saying always) be very depressed by the quality of what I was seeing versus the reality and the spin just being fully applied. And you don't know if it's horse trading for another thing or whatever, but on the things I knew, it was, like, a little bit.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, now, as a reporter, is that always in the back of you head? That, "I want to just be accurate"?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

That's the most important thing. 'Cause you get four papers every day in the government set up. It's the New York Times, the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and the FT. That's in every government office in Washington. And I'd read 'em all, and I'd read a lot of stuff.

And the FT wasn't always the first, but it was always the most accurate, with seven people in Washington versus several hundred at the other places. So it was like, "How are these seven people competitive against?" And that had always fascinated me, and I had already been on a track where I thought the FT was something special at that point in time. So, it has just been a motivation. At the time, Ed Luce was the bureau chief in Washington. With the odds stacked against him, how are they doin' that? So, I was very interested in that.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, let's talk about that journey. You grow up in Tallahassee, Florida. You go to Johns Hopkins undergrad and then get a masters at Hopkins in international studies.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I didn't know what the FT was at that point. I go to Bologna, Italy in 2007, 2008, which was a important year in history, so I was cloistered away in the porticoes of Bologna. And a guy who became a good friend of mine had left JPMorgan to go to grad school in Bologna. It's a part of Johns Hopkins.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And he's holdin' this pink thing. And I'm like, "What is this?" And he's like, "Oh, it's the FT." And I'd never seen it before. So, that was the first. I was 21 at the time.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

But you don't go into journalism. You go to work in politics in the Obama administration?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Technically correct, but I had already been working-- so, basically, summers of '06 and '07, all my friends were goin' to Lehman, all my closest friends. And they were like, "You get paid $40,000 for a summer, and you're in New York, and it's awesome, and you get interviews, and."

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And it will look great on your resume forever.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And I just, (LAUGHTER) so, I was in Hopkins from '04 to '07 in Baltimore, and I was just, country's at war a Iraq. The Bush administration, not goin' so well on a number of fronts, the war being probably the most whatever. I'm pretty sure if you polled the 4,000 kids around campus that 80% of 'em didn't have a strong view on that.

And I was like, "What is goin' on here? What is this disconnect? But then, all my peers are tryin' to get jobs on Wall Street. Something isn't right here. I don't feel good about this. I don't feel good about the rocket scientist becoming a investment banker."

So, I think that's just something I felt. And when I see everyone running in one direction, I don't chase the ball. And that's just ingrained in me. And I just felt like there was something wrong or there was a disconnect in values. And then, Obama comes up as this character in the Senate, and he's making these inspirational speeches, and he's askin' people to be bigger than themselves, and it just aligned with where I was mentally at that time.

So, I had a friend who was connected to the Kerry campaign in fundraising, and his father was. All the Kerry people, especially in the fundraising category, moved to the Obama campaign. So, I ended up becoming an intern in Miami Beach in the Obama Florida office in June of 2007. Or it was actually in Coconut Grove, and then it moved to Miami Beach.

Yeah, it was basically cold calling people asking for $25 to donate to the Obama campaign. That was how I started. The Obama operation in Florida was two people, staff, and two interns, me and my friend, and a guy who was the chairman. He was in third place, John Edwards was in second, and Hillary was in first.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Just curious. At a point, do you get to meet candidate at some point--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

That was the only time I actually ever met him in person. I can share it now. It was 2007, and we went to Orlando, and there was an event at a guy's house. And then, you meet Obama. And what's hilarious, he was so bad at speaking in that setting. He was terrible. It was just like, "Oh, no." (LAUGHTER)

And then, to watch that evolution, and this is what was fascinating about him is he's someone who constantly improves. And I think that's something I really grew to admire, was there was a constant improvement of him as a leader. If you put him in that setting now, I think he'd be much more captivating and whatever, but he couldn't work the room in front of a hundred people, but then he could work 20,000 people at a stadium.

And there was this huge disconnect of how people felt, 'cause he's an introvert, ultimately. So, I think he's almost more comfortable in a oratory setting than in a personal setting. But he improved so much from that period, 'cause then, I would see him in other things where I was not there to meet him or whatever, and he was just so much better at it. So, it was just this evolution of who he was as a person, as well, from June, July '07 to.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, you go on to work in the administration.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. That wasn't the first stop, though. Actually--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What was the first stop?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I don't know how you guys know political appointments work. There's a White House presidential personnel office, PPO. And that's basically the HR of the administration. And my whole team got taken into the Commerce Department, the International Trade Administration. There was a whole Florida mafia of which I became a tiny, tiny thing of that.

And it was the summer of '09. Now I've graduated, and I can't get a job. I'm strugglin' to find work. And I got a job at Bobby Van's Steakhouse and got fired before I even started. (LAUGHTER) That was a low point. I just wasn't cut out--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's cute. We'll save that for the career setbacks section--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, exactly. (LAUGHTER) Anyways, so I had two job offers. One was to do emergency market equity sales at Bank of America. And one was to join this team in the White House. Or, not in the White House. The Commerce Department. And I got a call from who would then become my boss and who had been my boss in Florida to say, "I'm really sorry. I can't make this work. They're sayin' your parents aren't from a rich family. They're not big donors. You aren't personally on the campaign. You're an intern, so they don't have you in their systems." This stuff is done through patronage. It's not a meritocracy--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Wow.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--which I would come to learn.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Disheartening.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. But I think it's important to talk about these things. And I think--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Absolutely.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--that's why I'm not just gonna pretend that these things didn't happen in hindsight. I'm here to do real talk as a journalist. So, anyways, I had accepted the job, and I lost it, and I had an unpaid internship offer working for Charlie Rose. So, I went and I worked for Charlie Rose for what ended up being three weeks.

And I was sleeping on the sofa of all those Lehman Brothers guys in New York paying 'em $200 for rent, just doin' that unpaid until I figured it out. And then, something or other. My, who would then become my boss, seemed to have somehow solve it.

But I was with Charlie and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when I got a call from the FBI being like, "Have you filled out your paperwork?" And I am like, "I have no idea." I had no context. I didn't know it had been resolved. And it was to get my security clearance. I had just walked out of the room with Ahmadinejad and Charlie Rose. And then they were like, "No, no. You've gotten the job in the government." I was like, "Why didn't (LAUGH) anyone tell me?" So, I resigned from the show--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

They were tracking you the whole time, by the way--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, (LAUGH) exactly.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--through those (LAUGH) different meetings.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

But it was very nice with Charlie. Literally spent three weeks with him in Manhattan in the Bloomberg offices at that time. And my job was to greet the guests, so I basically had the best job. It was like Chris Paul, LeBron James, Audrey Tautou, Juliette Binoche, Rahm Emanuel, just in that short period of time. I think Sorkin came in. Juan Martín del Potro beat Roger Federer in the U.S. Open. He came in. I was just like, "This is amazing." So, that was a great internship, but it lasted only three weeks. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's a lot of people in three weeks.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And then, I joined the government from that point.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And then, in the government, when do you decide you want to be a reporter, and when do you make the move to the FT?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I had already decided I really wanted to try this FT thing out when I graduated from grad school. They have this thing called the grad trainee program where they basically take two people, usually straight out of university.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

The FT has it?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And it's back on again. Sometimes when things are tight, they don't run it, but our two trainees just began this week. And it was cool, 'cause I was actually on the process to help pick them this time, so that was quite fun. So, I had been applying to the FT for three years, basically.

So, in 2009, I applied. Didn't hear back. 2010, I applied, 'cause you just send off an application and you hope for the best. And I had never written an article at this point, too, which is relevant. So, I don't have clicks. (LAUGHTER) I got nothin', just a hunch.

And then, I decide to apply for 2011, as well. I had actually gotten into Columbia at that point for the journalism school. So, I went for the interview, and I was like, "So, how much does this cost?" And they told me, and I was like, "So, I have a paid job in the government. I've never written an article, and you're offering me a little bit of help on the tuition. And then, what's the starting salary for people who come outta here, and it's less than tuition? This doesn't make sense."

So, I was like, "I'm not doin' the Columbia thing on this. If you guys make it free, I think I'll do it, but otherwise, (LAUGHTER) I don't think I'm gonna do this." And so, I turned that down. And then, eventually, I decided for the third year of applying to the FT, I'll try to network within the FT to somehow see if I can get a sense of how this process works.

And that coincided nicely with some work I was doing in India, because Ed Luce had written a book called In Spite of the Gods. And my boss at the time could use a bit of an uplift on India matters, so I got him the book and brought Ed in a few times to teach him about India a bit, 'cause we were doin' this big initiative for the government in India and ended up goin' with Obama to India and all this fun stuff in 2010.

And the guy who was the India bureau chief at the time, he became the managing editor under Lionel Barber, and he showed up late to the Obama press conference or whatever Obama was doin' for us in Mumbai. And they didn't let him in. So, someone else I who I'd now met at the FT, I think it was James Fontanella-Khan, so he ends up becoming my partner in crime. He was in Mumbai. And he texts me saying, "Can you help get this guy in? He's the bureau chief." So, I had to go help get him in, which I brought up in every--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yes, (LAUGH) exactly.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--subsequently.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

"Just remember, you would not be in that pressure conference"--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--"if I didn't let you in." That's funny--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

So, anyways, I networked with a bunch of people, and I ended up getting a job at the FT.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's impressive.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, three years pursuing that internship and finally getting it--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I just had a feeling. I also had a job offer from one of your rivals at the time for, like, a more lobbying job in Washington. And it didn't make a lot of sense, if I'm honest. So, I wanted to try this.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Well, if it was one of our rivals, it definitely didn't make sense.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

When did you realize that you had made a good choice? Was there an initial story, or was there something that you were successful with fairly early on that you said, "You know what? I think I can do this, and I can do it well"--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

No. I don't know if it's, like, a permanent sense of impostor syndrome, 'cause everyone I work with, many of them, they wanted to be journalists their whole lives. They were editor of the university paper if not the high school paper. They write beautifully.

I remember showin' up and Duncan Robinson-- I don't know if you guys know him. He's a senior columnist now at The Economist. He was four years younger than me. He was 21. I was 25 when I started. He has this, like, Yorkshire accent. I literally couldn't understand a word he said. (LAUGHTER)

And they put us through these exercises to write stories just to test you out. And Duncan could write 400 words in five minutes, and it'd be perfect. And I'd just be like, "How did you do that? I'm on the first sentence." And that's not really stopped to this day. It's just, "Okay, keep runnin', because these people are very, very skilled, and you are just some guy from Tallahassee, Florida, and you're here, and you gotta make it work." And that's ingrained in me now. I don't think it goes away.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And so, is there this constant mentality to outwork?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, I think so. Or just that you can't get complacent, especially now that I've been doin' this for a while. Sometimes now, I'm just like, "Okay, am I takin' it too easy?" So, I think there's a bit of that. You gotta fight the complacency of it, because it gets very comfortable all of a sudden, and now you know how to pull levers, so it's, "How do you keep tryin' to make yourself feel uncomfortable?" And one good way about that is your name is on what you write, so if you don't write for a while, every good journalist has this fear of, like, "I haven't written in a few days." That doesn't go away.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

If you wake up one morning, and you're feeling that complacency, and you want to fight the complacency, what do you do? Is that the time to pick up the phone and reach out to some sources that you haven't talked to in a long time--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I think so, yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What's the jump start?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I just came back from a week in Paris, and over the summer, I really speak at these conferences and whatever. I volunteered to speak at a thing, and set up a bunch of meetings in Paris, and decided, "I'm just gonna try this thing," and I did it all last week. And I came back with a few really fun stories. And it just reenergizes you.

It gives you a lift, especially there's (LAUGH) been some big things that happened this year between the banking crisis, and the UBS-Credit Suisse story, and you name it. There's been big stuff. And so, when you don't have that buzz of these big things happening, how do you keep it going and find these characters? And you're just constantly searching for characters. I look for characters who are interesting: Masa, Mohammed bin Salman, Yasir Al-Rumayyan, some of these dealmakers--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Elon Musk.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Elon Musk. They're complicated, and so you try to shed light on them. And I do it from the corporate finance and deal side of it, but they're complex individuals. And I think that constantly searching for these-- Patrick Drahi, (UNINTEL PHRASE). Lex Greensill ended up being one of these guys.

There's just a lot of characters. And I think there's a lot of money. And I think that's something we don't talk about enough is the amount of money that was created in the last 15 years as a consequence of zero-rate environment. I don't think we really fully appreciated how that's gonna shape society, and I would probably, more pejoratively, use the word distort society, because there's a reason why they're called capitalists, the guys with the money.

They have the right to make the most money first. I think that really happened in ways that we fully don't appreciate over the last 15 years. I think it's gonna really change. And I think you look at U.S. politics now, and I think it would have been unfathomable that private equity guys were gonna be running for president or just, like, hopped in the governor's race and won in--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Right. Right.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--Virginia. Like, I don't think that's something we thought that was possible 15 years ago. And between campaign finance, and how much money is required to fund these things, and all these different aspects, I think we're gonna see the impact of the last 15 years in a lot of ways that we probably haven't anticipated.

In a way I think we understood there was some knock-on effects from the Iraq War in ways that we didn't understand, the financial crisis and the behavior post financial crisis are probably gonna be things that show up in ways that we don't fully expect in ten, 15 years.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Let's talk about the Due Diligence newsletter. You're there. You're fighting complacency at the FT and always tryin' to come up with different ideas. You come up with the idea with James Fontanella-Khan, who you mentioned before, the other JFK.

You guys come up with this idea for this Due Diligence newsletter. At the time, there are some newsletters, DealBooks out there, but certainly not the significant number of newsletters that we see today. Where did that idea emanate from? And I assume you're pretty proud of what that's developed into, as well, at the FT.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I think it's important to stress it wasn't a novel idea. By that point, POLITICO was doing Playbook very successfully. Andrew Ross Sorkin, who, by the way, as a 21-year-old was an M&A reporter in London and was so good that, in 2001, he was out here. People still talk about how he was a prodigy. He left an impression on people here.

And so, he created DealBook, and he bootstrapped the New York Times into having this thing which, objectively, the New York Times didn't really have finance coverage. In one sense, what James and I did wasn't too novel, because he'd been doin' it for 15 years.

I think we just noticed that there was a gap to do it more rigorously at that time. And the truth be told, the FT needed to add a product or two, and so they leaned on us. And we were pretty much at capacity. And we said, "Do we have a choice?" And they were like, "Not really." So, (LAUGHTER) what's the thing? Necessity is the mother of all invention or somethin' like that--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's right. That's right.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

So, we were dealt a hand.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

(LAUGH) Was gonna say, necessity or a firm hand.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. So, we weren't given a whole lot of choices there. "Okay, you guys are pretty energetic. You've been breakin' a lot of news in mergers and acquisitions. Could you come up with something?" They didn't say "newsletter." "Can you just come up with a thing which takes people a bit closer to your work?"

'Cause the one fear I had was that, "Okay, we're gonna put an extra-high paywall, and we're gonna charge a really high price, and 20 people are gonna get proprietary access to that for 15 minutes," 'cause Bloomberg has a 15-minute gap. All these machines that feed into Bloomberg, they're trading in microseconds off the headlines, and then it appears online 15 minutes later.

And we don't really have that, so I was fearful that they might try to monetize our scoops. But that conversation never really happened. But what they did want is something more informative about what we do and deeper. So, we viewed the newsletter as a vehicle where we could funnel that and just be like, "Okay, if you really care about these things, in 300 words, we're gonna give you the best of that and whatever else we can give you, 400 words. And we're gonna do that for three things a day." And then, there was other aspects. A banker would be the head of industrials at Credit Suisse, and he moved to UBS and would want a write-up about it. And you're just, "Eh, no. (LAUGHTER) I'm not writing 400 words about you."

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

"But I'll put a line in the newsletter"--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

So, we have the Job Moves section, and the CEO leaves, we're gonna do a full story. But then, everyone wants to keep tabs on these people, so we have the Job Moves section. We're reading a lot of moves we put the Smart Reads together. And then, we can infuse it a bit with our personality.

And that effectively is me, James, Sujeet Indap, who's our U.S. Lex writer, and a couple others. And we bootstrap that for a little while until they discovered it started making money, and then we got some more resources. And then, we went from there.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And now, you want to do the same thing with sports business. You have a similar newsletter called Scorecard, and you're--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Scoreboard.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Scoreboard, sorry--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--called Scoreboard--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Not the most inspired name. (LAUGH) I don't know. It's a card. You're a British paper. Sports is very jargony, especially with North American sports versus--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, yeah. Totally.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--global sports.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, you need somethin' that sort of plays on both sides, right?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And it's the FT, so I thought we had to be very obvious. (LAUGHTER) They also didn't like the name.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So obvious that I messed up the--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

(LAUGHTER) Yeah, exactly. My wife came up with the name. (LAUGH) My wife works at the FT. She came up with the name for Due Diligence, as well, 'cause they wanted it to be called, like, Dawn Raid, which just sounded like something attacking you when you wake up.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Or a good movie.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, exactly.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What does she do at the FT?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

She's the management editor. But, ironically, on those trips to India with Obama and co, she was a trainee. She had gotten it in that first year I had applied. She's the one that--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh. Really?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. (LAUGHTER) And so, she was in Delhi as a trainee and then moved to New York. And then, I moved to New York after six months in London. And that's how--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

You met on the job.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

We had met in India twice, actually, just completely randomly, 'cause she was covering the events I was at. And I was networking with the FT people. She's recently written about a dinner party at our house, which I advise you to read about if you--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, really?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. I don't come out looking good. (LAUGHTER) I feel like Carl Bernstein to her Norah Ephron.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, see? My research is terrible. How did I not have that story before this podcast--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Well, I'm not mentioned. It's very oblique.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It's a oblique reference to her husband.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, interesting. (LAUGHTER) All right. What was served?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Indian food.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And why do you not look good?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

The bathroom door was broken, (LAUGHTER) and she wanted to cancel the event where we were hosting our former editor-in-chief, Lionel Barber, for dinner and his wife.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Because the bathroom door was broken?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

She wanted to cancel, and I said, "Let's just hang a bedsheet." (LAUGHTER) And apparently that's, like, not okay. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I think I would have gone with the bedsheet--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Okay, so.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--rather than cancel it.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

That's how I felt.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I may have called someone to try to fix it.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It was fixed, and then my lovely mother-in-law came over, (LAUGHTER) but I can't.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

This could be a movie.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, it was a funny night.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

You're movin' into there with conferences and other types of coverage of that and, again, followin' the money.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Have you guys seen the show Billions? 'Cause we wrote a two-page proposal back in 2018 about why the FT should fund this. And there was that line that says, "In the U.S., we don't knight people. We buy sports teams." In that, like, you become a owner in the NFL, that's your knighthood, and then the rules don't apply to you.

And, again, it was this concept of there was so much money being created, and there's only so many things that people can buy. And, by the way, I have the same theory about the art world, about yachts, about watches, all this stuff the FT writes about.

I love sports. I love watching sports. But what we need to do to stand out at the FT is write about who controls it, and why, and how it works, and the tax-- I did a story in 2014 which was one of my favorite stories ever. It was about Steve Ballmer's losses at the Los Angeles Clippers.

But essentially, he can use the losses. It's a very complex tax treatment, but you can basically use the losses on the sporting asset to write down other things. And basically every billionaire in the U.S. does this, but no one talks about it.

ProPublica wrote about it once. Bloomberg wrote about it once. It's, like, one of the most interesting tax tricks in the American tax law, and it's one of the reasons why billionaire PE guys love buying sports teams. It's 'cause there's great tax write-offs for your personal. "Why don't people talk about it?"

So, I did this story about Ballmer and the L.A. Clippers, and the tax treatment of it, and how beneficial it is. And so, it was like, "Steve Ballmer scores slam dunk with Clippers deal," and it was all about the tax treatment. So, that's what's actually going on, right--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What was Steve Ballmer's reaction to that?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

No comment. But that's what's actually going on. You're watchin' the game, but you're not understanding what's actually happening. And I think that, again, is, like, a good place for the FT to be, is everyone can watch the game, but we'll tell you what actually is happening. And that's what's valuable. And I think that's our differentiator at The Financial Times.

And so, the view with Scoreboard was we're just seeing an influx of private equity money. At that point, CVC had only just sold Formula One to Liberty Media. It just felt like it was gonna be a moment. I'm not even sure The Athletic was set up or just starting, and it just felt, again, with James, and you have to build these things around talented people, and we had a guy called Murad Ahmed, who's now our tech news editor. And he's just amazing.

And so, he was the person we built it around. And at that point, then, this Chinese guy had bought AC Milan from Silvio Berlusconi, came outta nowhere, magically defaulted on loans. It eventually ended up in Elliott's hands. And so, next thing you know, I'm sitting in Milan with Murad, and the leadership of AC Milan, and Elliott guys telling the inside story of this club and whether the world's most feared hedge fund can make it work in a sport where, like, just 'cause you spent a lot of money or did things a certain way doesn't affect the outcome. It's totally random in some ways. And so, it's Elliott, a Chinese mysterious guy, Silvio Berlusconi. It's all around this theater of football.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

The characters again.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. You're just lookin' for all these things. And the elements are all there. And it's a ton of fun. Again, I'm just a guy from Tallahassee, and I'm sittin' in Europe hangin' out in Milanello.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Who loves sports.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

So, it's just wow. But we just go with it.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

And it keeps goin'. So interesting, talkin' about your career and where it's goin'. Let's finish with some quick hits, shall we--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Okay, yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Give everyone the opportunity to learn a little bit more about you. How are you spendin' your free time? Any notable hobbies or--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Oh, man.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--activities?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I would say a notable lack of hobbies, unfortunately. (LAUGHTER) And I don't know if this is appropriate, the thing I discovered in France, and I was meeting all these bankers and lawyers, if you can talk about burgundy, about wine, you can, like, unlock these guys in a way (LAUGHTER) that I had no idea. But I can't talk about burgundy, so now I'm just like.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Now you gotta learn.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I'm goin' through these things like, "What does this mean? What is this?" And I'm just like, "I don't know"--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Well, you know the best part of that? It's all tax deductible.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

(LAUGH) Oh, really?

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Well, it's just research for your job, so I'm sure--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

There you go.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--you can get a clever accountant to--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:??

have time to go golfing. All these people golf, too, (LAUGHTER) and it's like, "Who has time to golf?"

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, it's quicker to drink wine.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I would say there's a notable lack of hobbies, and I'm sure you've talked to other reporters who have treated their body very badly over the course of especially the mergers and acquisitions beat. And so, I'm tryin' to make up for some of my past sins by tryin' to be healthier, and exercise, and actually just make time to take care of myself.

So, my hobby is to make time to take care of myself and probably to try to detach from my device, which I think, again, things we don't talk about is, like, we're just glued, because there's not a newspaper that publishes at night. There's the 24-hour news cycle and your role in it. And that can breed some just really unhealthy lifestyle habits about work. And just tryin' to do better at those things.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

How 'bout favorite sports team?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Oh, man. I guess technically Arsenal?

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What about Florida State?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I'm a big Florida State fan.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Tallahassee.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

(LAUGHTER) Tallahassee. I'm a big Florida State fan, and my cousin is a broadcaster for Florida State--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, nice.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--so he's arguably the better podcast voice (LAUGH) and great on camera. His name's Ari. Yeah, look him up.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Awesome--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

He's wonderful.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's cool.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And I'm very proud of him. And--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

So, Arsenal, though?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Arsenal, Florida State. I'm tryin' to think who else really hits me in the sentimental way. Yeah, I think those are the two.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's good. How 'bout favorite movie?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Oh, man. These are tough. (LAUGHTER) I'm tryin' to think, like, what--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

No wrong answers.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I'm tryin' to think. I just don't know what it is. I'm gonna give some really tacky answer, but I find myself watching weird clips from Moneyball lately. I don't know why. (LAUGHTER) It's just some, like, nice moments. And I don't know--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Again, there's, like, a bunch of people tryin' to think about a situation differently, right or wrong. And I think that's something very attractive about that mentality.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Good little song at the end, right, when the daughter sings--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. That was a nice outro.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, it's good--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

We're actually doin' an event with Michael Lewis coming up--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, nice.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--which I'm quite excited about, about his new book. So, that'll be next month.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I'll save you from singing the song. How 'bout what's streaming in your home?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Cocomelon? (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I don't know it.

????????????????????????????????????? VOICES:

It's a kids' show.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Kids under two--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Kids' show. Okay. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, I've got a two-year-old, and so my Spotify is some combination--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

It was either that or reality dating show. I wasn't sure what--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

But, actually, okay, here's the story behind the story. So, Bob Iger pushes out Kevin Mayer, who probably was his best choice to be his replacement because maybe he was his best choice. Kevin Mayer goes on various journeys. I think he ended up at TikTok for a while, and then he moved.

He's at this thing which is the parent company of Cocomelon, and Blackstone owns a stake in it, and there's a lot of theories that Disney will buy this thing, and Disney will not, 'cause Cocomelon is, like, prime crack for (LAUGHTER) under fives.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Crack for kids.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I mean, it seems like it's a very good ride, let's put it (LAUGHTER) this way. So, there's a theory that Disney will buy this company at some point just in part to get Kevin Mayer back, as well--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Interesting.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--even though he's (UNINTEL PHRASE)--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have a favorite restaurant in London?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, I do. There's three. One is Noble Rot, which is really good and is sort of on this wine theme. Two would be--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I'm looking to the crowd to see if anyone recognizes--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--Quality Chop House--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Okay.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--which I think is really good. And I have--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

We have a Quality Italian and Quality Meats in New York. Do you think it's related--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

This is better. No.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

No?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

This is better--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Okay.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--though I'm into those.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Okay.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And our wine editor, Jancis Robinson, and her husband, Nick Lander, it's her son's restaurant.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, cool.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

And she does the wine list and whatever, so it's--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Oh, wow.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--a good vibe. And it's, I think, a 19th century literally chop house.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It's great. And then, three, I would say Gymkhana. But anything by these JKS guys. There's a whole chain of restaurants by--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Lots of nods in the room.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, so, I'd say food is a bit of a hobby. And cooking. We like to cook at home.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah. What would be the dream job if you weren't a reporter?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Ooh, that's good. Probably something in sports. I don't know. I don't know why. I'm tryin' to convince myself I have a serious job and I'm not just (LAUGH) tryin' to write about sports 'cause. (LAUGHTER) But I think something in the sports industry.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

We always ask potential employees at Prosek if you've ever had a dirty job. Did you ever have to roll up your sleeves, get a little messy--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I mean.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

--you know, I don't know, growin' up, and?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

If you had my wife here, she would say that I have a aversion to exactly those (LAUGHTER) qualities. I mean, so, I was a tennis player, and I did teach tennis lesson in the Florida heat and Baltimore, Washington, D.C. heat in the summers, the worst hours for five, six years. I don't know if that counts, but--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Are we lettin' it fly? We'll let it fly. (MURMURS)

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It's like, you know.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

It's a lot of sweat.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It was (LAUGH) a lot of sweat. (LAUGHTER) You were bakin'. It's not pleasant. But, yeah, I--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

We might have to change the question. "Did you ever have a sweaty job?"

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

After being unemployed for a while, I got that job at Bobby Van's Steakhouse. And this guy felt like a favor, and he was doin' me a solid, and then--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

(LAUGH) But you never even worked there.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Well, he said, "So, there's a private party on the Saturday night, and I'll put you on that shift because they're gonna tip huge, and you'll walk out the door with $300-400 in tips." And I said, "Oh, I got these concert tickets, (LAUGHTER) and is there any way I could start, like, the following week?" And he's like, "I don't think this is gonna work out for us." (LAUGHTER) And I lost the job on the spot.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

That's funny.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

But it was a good concert. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

What piece of advice would you give young reporters or aspiring reporters. Like Brooke Masters, we had her on.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Brooke is great--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

She's awesome. She said she tells young reporters to smile on the phone, which I thought was some good achieve. She said, "You'll have a better interaction with your sources if you're smiling on the phone."

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah, it's interesting, 'cause when I was starting out, it was still post financial crisis. I remember Occupy Wall Street and Occupy St. Paul's were goin' on. So, my colleagues would really go into these meetings with bankers and just treat them really poorly or in a nasty way, and I just never saw the upside in doin' that. So, I never have been that kinda guy. I'm not a kill 'em with kindness kinda guy, but I'll kill you while I'm smiling.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Right. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Do you know what I mean? And it's just, like, I don't enter the room with hostility toward anyone. I try to understand them, try to understand where they're coming from. I think the thing is understand motivation, understand power dynamics, understand what's actually happening, and never stop asking, "What's actually happening?" And I think those are the things that get lost.

I remember being really annoyed as a young reporter that, like, "Oh, this PR firm did this, dah dah dah dah." And then, I just started to realize, "Actually, none of that matters. What matters is how you handle it, and how you position yourself, and what people think about what you're doing." And then, all of a sudden, you are the orchestra conductor and not the violin that's getting left out of the solo. And that's the way I try to think about this stuff.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Given that point, how should PR people interact with you? What are the best types of relationships, in your mind? And, conversely, what's the most frustrating?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It's interesting. There's a real divide between the U.K. PR industry and the U.S. one. And I don't just mean the agencies. I just mean in the U.K., you're treated as an equal, I think, as a journalist, to the person on the other side, whether it's a senior head of comms or whatever, at least most of the time.

?

In the U.S., you're treated like beneath them. And I think there's a real disconnect in that sense. There's almost like a more mutual respect here, and it makes dealing with PR people in this country much easier. You don't really get the sense you're being talked down to or barked at ever, whereas I, I'd say 50% of the time, feel like that's the nature of the engagement in the U.S. I think the U.S. probably could chill a bit is (LAUGHTER) sort of my big transatlantic observation.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

We're gettin' a lot of good headlines out of this episode. "The U.S. can chill a little bit," is definitely (LAUGH) one of 'em. I appreciate that perspective. There's probably something to that. Final question. It's our headline question. We all like thinkin' about headlines. If we had to come up with a headline for your career, for you, what would it be? There's gotta be some sort of sports aspect to it. No. But give us the headline.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

We have actually, for our wedding, Anjli made a mock front page, and we called it a merger of equals.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Which I thought that was-- so, we have that framed in our house, and everyone signed it--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

I love that.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I'm tryin' to think, headline of career. I have no idea, man. (LAUGHTER) I can't give you anything.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

"I have no idea, man."

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I don't know.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Any suggestions?

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

It's just like, "Guy from Tallahassee made it in Europe"? I don't know. (LAUGHTER) It's like, "That doesn't happen very often."

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Just a kid from Tallahassee.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

Yeah. I'm also Iranian, of Iranian origin, and then kinda grew up white in Tallahassee, 'cause there's about 200 Iranians in the whole town. And I've always been a insider-outsider in every aspect of what I've done. I'm in with the gang, but I'm not the gang; in the government, but I'm questioning it; in journalism, but I'm sometimes skeptical even of my own industry. And so, I'm always tryin' to see things from every perspective, because I never really felt like I'm in one thing. And I think maybe that's getting closer to--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah. Yeah.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

--some deep analysis--

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Yeah, no. I love that. Yeah. Seein' things from every perspective, looking in but not in. Yeah. There's somethin' there.

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

There's somethin' there. One day, I'll be able to explain it, (LAUGHTER) you know, psychologically.

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

This has been a great conversation. I've really--

????????????????????????????????????? ARASH MASSOUDI:

I'm glad someone wanted to hear it. (LAUGHTER)

????????????????????????????????????? RUSSELL SHERMAN:

Arash Massoudi, everybody. (APPLAUSE) And that's gonna do it for this episode of Press Profiles. Remember, you can find all the episodes on pressprofilespodcast.com or subscribe at Apple, Spotify, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. You can also subscribe to the LinkedIn newsletter for the full transcripts of every episode. Thanks again for listening, and we will see you next time. (APPLAUSE)