Amplifying Black and Brown Voices With Zach Nunn

Zach Nunn is a change management consultant and one of the co-founders of the podcast and movement Living Corporate . The goal of that platform is to tell Black and Brown stories related to the world of work. You think you’ve heard good conversations about diversity, inclusion, equity, and belonging, but you have not heard Living Corporate.

On the Living Corporate podcast, Zach and his team talk to all kinds of people and have honest conversations. They talk about things that aren’t normally discussed at work — or even in diversity inclusion programs. It is a terrific podcast that everybody needs to download and take a few minutes to listen to.

In the episode, Zach shares about the work he is doing. He explains why it has become his goal to create platforms in spaces that amplify and center Black and Brown voices at work. He has a perspective that causes him to speak with authority and answer the questions many of us are asking, especially regarding what we can do to help right now. Listen in for another conversation on big ideas to do things differently.

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Living Corporate is a Movement

Living Corporate works towards making their content available to anyone and everyone, “And so our team is incredible because so when we talk about Real Talk in a Corporate World, it’s not just about having these long-form conversations. We want to create options for people who may not have the time to listen to a 45-minute conversation. What does it look like to create career tips, and simple career tips, and then medium-sized career conversations?”

Zach isn’t doing the work alone and is proud of his team. “Tristan Layfield is a resume and career consultant. And so Tristan has a show every Thursday called [“TAP in with Tristan”]. He’s literally talking about like, here are some basic things around resume, networking, career management.”

“Latesha Byrd is an executive career and leadership coach, diversity and inclusion coach. And she is phenomenal. So she’s talking about equity, really networking, getting the bag. She does quite a bit. And her platform continues to grow.”

“And then you have Amy C. Waninger. Amy C. Waninger is the CEO of Lead at Any Level. And so she’s a public speaker, an educator, a coach. She’s really focused on inclusive leadership behaviors. So she has a book called “Network Beyond Bias,” which is phenomenal.”

“It’s really pivoted and pointed to white leaders, thinking about, what does it really looks like to examine your network and move beyond some of the biases, both conscious and unconscious, to extend and engage Black and Brown folks, LGBTQ or slash queer folks, trans, nonbinary folks? What does it look like to really have an intersectional and an inclusive network? Because if your network is inclusive, then you’re going to be able to effect change and really drive a more inclusive world.”

Restructuring HR

When I listened to the Living Corporate podcast, I had two thoughts. The first is similar to what Zach says: What got you here won’t get you there. So all of these individuals in positions of power have clearly been complicit or just blew it, and it’s time for them to step out of the way. They’re not the ones who are going to deliver on social justice, on racial equality, on inclusion, all of that.

I also thought that we have these systems in place, and does it make sense to just de-center ourselves and seed power, or do we need to burn this to the ground? Do we need to burn HR to the ground? And this is a conversation I’ve been having for a very long time. It’s like the thesis of my work. But if what got us here won’t get us there, isn’t that really the institution of HR? It’s the institution of corporate America. Burn it the F down.

On what Zack learned early on in his career, “I started with a large retail company, and I was an HR manager. And I remember having these very altruistic visions of what my job really entailed, when in fact, those were big-box retailers. So HR’s job was to follow the binder. And that binder was, as I look back now. Because I was 20, yeah, I was 20 at the time, so that binder was really created by lawyers to mitigate risk in every capable way. ... That binder, which you are instructed to follow to the letter, was not really built for any type of justice or equity or even accountability, for that matter. It was built from the lens of risk management.”

“When I think about HR today, I think that continues. And I think that HR is so, it’s empowered. So I’m not trying to demonize the space. I just think in a lot of ways they kind of operate as the police. They’re kind of like the police of an organization.”

“So human resources, they’re really fangless because of the power dynamics. So again, they become an executor of whatever the company’s will is. So they work very hand in hand with legal. Very rarely will you hear HR, if at all, really come out and be like, ‘Hey, you did this person wrong, and we’re going to fix this,’ unless we notice there’s a crazy lawsuit pending. But if that happens, then typically, HR backs out, legal steps in, and you’re getting some type of package.”

Amplifying Black and Brown Voices by Providing Resources and Capital

I’m just a middle-aged lady in Raleigh, N.C. So I don’t have any answers in this world, but I know that through listening to the Living Corporate podcast and surrounding myself with other smart and idea-oriented people. I asked Zach about this moment in time and what he wanted us to know about him, his community, and what others can do to help.

“I think people need to understand that Black and Brown people in this moment do not need your advice. We need your things. OK? OK. I’m going to say it one more time. Black and Brown people do not need your advice. We need your things.

“So there’s a concept right now, there’s kind of like an underlying attitude right now that like, what we need to do right now is invest in programs and things that essentially educate Black people. And education is great. And if you look at it, it’s not radical, nor is it new to Black culture or Black communities to introduce education.?

“We actually are very passionate about education, so much so that we create our own colleges. What Black people do need, as opposed to being told what to do, is to have the resources and access and capital that you have to do the things that you do.”

?“If you’re asking like, what can you do in this moment? What is it you can really do tangibly? It’s about what can you give? What can you give up? What can you share? For you, when I say you, I mean the generalized you, not you, Laurie. For you to give me something, it could just be as much as you just forwarding my brand deck to your contact at Apple or introducing me to your friend who works at Google. And that one thing alone, that’s you sharing a bit of your capital, your access. It goes so far. It goes so, so far.?

“So that’s the one charge I want to leave with everyone who’s listening to this is like, we don’t need your advice. We need your things.”

People in This Episode

• Zach Nunn: Living Corporate Podcasts , LinkedIn , Instagram , Twitter