Allan Fletcher on killing sacred cows and becoming a customer advocate

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Allan Fletcher is the CMO of Modern Star Pty Ltd , Australia and New Zealand’s largest supplier of educational resources. A digital practitioner and certified people-person, he is passionate about the entire customer lifecycle - leading? teams that focus on creating coherent, human-centred experiences at every stage of the customer journey.

Fletch sat down with Tortoise & Hare to discuss the importance of advocating for the customer’s experience from within the C-suite to across the entire business. Our chat explored a variety of areas including practical ways brands can build empathy with customers, questioning our assumptions and the CX marathon. The conversation was incredibly insightful, fun and filled with practical advice for leaders playing the role of customer advocate in their business.?

Tortoise & Hare CX Agency : It’s a real pleasure to speak with you Allan, thanks for making the time. While we spend a lot of time marketing to consumers, we’re all customers first. Has there been an experience that you’ve had as a customer that changed the way you viewed a brand??

Allan Fletcher : One brand that really stood out for me in recent years is Four Pillars Gin . Mainly because I'm a big gin fan, but also because I happen to be a friend of one of the founders - Matt Jones , who I think is one of the best brand brains around at the moment. I've seen firsthand the dedication they have to the craft of distilling. Their attention to detail and the application of that craft throughout their brand has both impressed and inspired me. From the product itself to the overall experience and branding, everything is meticulously thought out and executed.?

And that's what I believe truly sets them apart. It's not just about the big moments; it's the little things. Every bit of communication from them feels genuine and thoughtful. You feel like you're part of something special, something everyone is truly passionate about. And that sense of joy and shared enthusiasm is something that leaves a lasting impact on customers like me. It reminds me that a truly exceptional experience is not accidental; it's the result of deliberate and thoughtful efforts.

"It's not just about the big moments; it's the little things. Every bit of communication from them feels genuine and thoughtful. You feel like you're part of something special..."

T&H: How has that inspired your understanding of CX and your role as CMO?

AF: For me, it’s that single-minded commitment to understanding why we matter to our customers. We need to identify what sets us apart and what our customers would miss if we weren't here tomorrow. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that what we do is something everyone else can do. To truly understand our customers, we must delve into their world and deliver on their needs and desires.?

As a CMO, I always try to keep the customer front of mind for everyone in the business - especially in executive meetings. It's easy to get caught up in our internal matters and forget about the customer, but it’s so essential that we always come back to the reason we matter in the lives of the people we serve. It's not enough to simply put a customer-focussed process in place and hope everyone gets it. If we don't know why we matter to our customers - no one else will understand either.

T&H: When it comes to understanding why your brand matters to customers, is that something you can figure out or is it something that your customer shows you over time??

AF: You absolutely have to pay attention to your customer. You can't just invent a reason to exist; it has to come from the customer. Talking to customers, conducting research, and understanding their space are essential. But the real key is empathy. For us we are constantly asking: "Why should the customer care about this? What value are we providing that resonates with their challenges?"

Whether it's the moment they open a box or receive an email, we need to understand what matters to the customer and how we can address their needs. Empathy sets us apart and gives us that unique edge and it's not a one-time thing, it's an ongoing conversation. By staying closely connected to our customers, we can consistently evolve and improve our offerings to meet their ever-changing needs.?

"Empathy sets us apart and gives us that unique edge and it's not a one-time thing, it's an ongoing conversation. By staying closely connected to our customers, we can consistently evolve and improve our offerings to meet their ever-changing needs..."

T&H: Couldn’t agree more. What are some of the most effective ways Modern Star practically demonstrates empathy towards customers??

AF: Research has played a crucial role in understanding the key drivers behind decision-making and shaping our customer experience. As an education-focused company, navigating the complex ecosystem of a school’s decision-making process is essential. We've recently conducted an extensive research project, to uncover what motivates decisions and how our experience can better support them. While research provides valuable insights, we complement it with real-world interactions. Meeting teachers in their own environment allows us to grasp the nuances of their challenges and needs. The classroom experience differs vastly from the boardroom, so being on the ground is indispensable.

The education space is evolving at a steady pace, making continuous monitoring of customer sentiments even more vital. What matters today may not hold the same weight tomorrow. To stay relevant, we keep our finger on the pulse by combining various touch points – research, physical visits, field team feedback, and customer interactions.

After conducting research we engaged all key stakeholders, from product teams to customer service and ops, to collaboratively understand the insights. This process helps us question assumptions and ‘sacred cows’ that may hinder progress. The in-depth research we undertake prompts us to challenge established views and adapt to changing customer needs. This continuous questioning and testing against customer feedback is essential to avoid complacency and irrelevance. By being open to evolving based on customer insights, we ensure our customer experience stays fresh, relevant and meaningful.

T&H: Oh that’s really interesting! So what you're saying is that the only thing more important than understanding your customer, is making sure everyone in your business understands the same version of the customer??

AF: One hundred percent! Customers rarely behave in ways we expect or want them to (it’s often quite inconvenient). So it’s essential to avoid falling into the trap of assuming that the way things have always been, is how they will always be.

Questioning our assumptions is crucial because otherwise we can end up building these ‘sacred cows’ that end up blinding us to the reality of our customers' needs and behaviours. We need to challenge those assumptions continually to avoid drifting further away from our customers and their evolving preferences.

It's not just the responsibility of the marketing team either, it's a collective effort. It's crucial for all teams, whether it's product, marketing, sales, or operations - to be on the same page about our customers. We must ensure everyone is aligned and has a shared understanding of our customer base.?

T&H: It’s always healthy to question our assumptions. For leaders who are either on, or perhaps, starting the journey of becoming the customer advocate within their business? - what would be your top three pieces of advice?

AF: Three pieces of advice, hmm okay…

1. The journey is longer and more challenging than you may anticipate: I agree with you guys when you say CX is a marathon not a sprint - but I’d add that it's a marathon that begins even before the start line! Often, you have to deal with legacy issues like dodgy data and poor platform experiences before you can even get started on your vision. So be patient.?
2. Embrace the challenges that come with driving CX: In this space, progress can be slow and frustrating, but that's precisely the nature of the job. I learned that overcoming those barriers is precisely my role as a CX professional. Don't mistake the obstacles as mere annoyances; they are the value you bring to the organisation.
3. Question your own assumptions: Just as businesses can have ‘sacred cows’, you too, might find yourself attached to certain ideas. Customers don't always behave as expected, and it's essential to practise what you preach. Continually questioning your own assumptions and being open to change is a necessary part of the journey.

"[CX] is a marathon that begins even before the start line! Often, you have to deal with legacy issues like dodgy data and poor platform experiences before you can even get started on your vision. So be patient..."?

T&H: That’s really helpful and practical advice, thanks Fletch! Final question, you mentioned before you’re a big gin fan. Did you enjoy the gin one of our directors (not to be named) accidentally spilled in your lap last time he saw you??

AF: Haha, it was very cold and damp.?

T&H: So one of the more negative customer experiences you’ve had??

AF: Look, I I love the work that you guys do. And you know, often you're well ahead of me in terms of what that experience should be, but throwing cold gin in my lap? I've never thought of that. And I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it.

T&H: Well like you said it’s the small moments of surprise and delight that really matter.?

AF: Oh that small glass of gin went a long way, trust me.

T&H: Once again, I've been told to profusely apologise. And thanks for chatting with us!?

AF: No worries!?

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Did our conversation with Allan raise questions for your team and your brand??

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