52 Cups of Coffee: 417 Edition - Cup 4/52 - Don Harkey

After hearing about the book 52 Cups of Coffee on a Podcast, I thought it sounded like a great opportunity to connect to people in my community. Initially, my plan was to just have coffee once a week with someone I know. I was thinking of friends, family members, or colleagues with whom I could spend some quality time. But the opportunity to engage with my community is always in the back of my mind. So I thought it might be interesting to ask the same set of questions to a diverse cast of influential and interesting people in the 417 area and share them here on my LinkedIn page. At the end of the year, who knows what we'll have... at the very least it's 52 interesting conversations. It's a loose plan. I don't have any real intentions and I think that's the beauty of it. Curiosity. Community. And a chance to learn a little bit from each person. A big thanks to the folks at Travellers House Coffee & Tea for being willing to provide a place to chat and several cups of coffee throughout the year!

I had a blast with this one. I've known Don Harkey for a few years after reaching out back when I was planning to step out and do some work for myself with Paramita. He's always been exceptionally kind to me for no real reason, and that's how you know it's genuine. He's an engineer, a consultant, a business owner ( People Centric Consulting Group ), he has a great podcast, and he's just a good hang. While I side stepped the sponsors this week, I did have a cup of Traveller's House coffee yesterday for no real reason... but Don and I sat down a true Springfield staple for breakfast, Gailey's on Walnut on a dreary Ozarks morning.

**I don't like taking notes while having coffee and conversation so I've trusted Otter to do the transcribing. Any editing issues are my own. I'm not a professional. :) I've included a list of books we discuss throughout the conversation at the bottom.

Rhett

Okay, question number one. What is the CliffsNotes version of the story of Don Harkey?

Don H.

The CliffsNotes version of the story of Don Harkey. The Cliff Notes version, career-wise, is that I was an engineer. I worked for big companies where I saw teams working in some areas, and not working in others. And I got interested in what causes that. I started doing what engineers do, which is study the science behind the observation that you're making. But engineers don't like to just study the science, we like to apply it. So, I saw the science is really well understood and I realized what was missing is the engineering behind it. How do you apply this as an engineer? So, I spent 10 years in manufacturing work for Archer Daniels Midland and 3M, then jumped out and eventually started in a consulting firm where we figure out how to engineer culture. That sounds very Orwellian, I guess, but we realized this is how you can get people really empowered and aligned at work. I found out that was the thing that I was really passionate about all along. I liked the engineering stuff. It's interesting. But watching people succeed within that is the true driver. And so yeah, that's been fun. That second part of the career has been more fun, more challenging, but better aligned for who I am than the first part.

Rhett

How long has People Centric been going now?

Don H.

I left 3M in 2007 or 2008. My daughter was born in... It was 2008! And I was a separate company, Galt Consulting, up until 2012. And then it was People Centric. I bought a partner out in 2018, but I've been out since 2008.

Rhett

What brings you joy?

Don H.

A good cup of coffee in the morning, right?

Rhett

Agreed!

Don H.

With a friend and good conversations.? (Clinking glasses to toast to ourselves and joy... but mostly to ourselves)

Rhett

Hope fully the clink comes across in the audio.? (laughs) Right. It's a lot easier to find joy in the Admiral's Club.

Don H.

The clink. Clink! You can edit that in later. What brings me joy? I think the big answer for that fits the CliffsNotes version of the story piece. I do like watching other people be successful. I like watching people find their purpose. I like watching people have those fist bump moments. The moments where you do something at work and you're like "That was awesome! I feel really good about that." I like watching people start to reach their potential, but I've kind of adjusted that idea in my life a little bit more. It's not about reaching your potential, because if you reached it how boring would life be? Like, "I've done it!" Rather than that just finding a little bit more of it. That's pretty cool. Also, learning to find more joy in the little moments in life. Maybe a cool song that you hear, or taking a second when you're walking back from breakfast and going into the office and you take a breath and look around and catch something. I found joy, as a side story, I don't know how deep you want me to go, but as a side story. I used to hate airports and I travel a lot. So that's a problem. There's a book called Mindset (https://a.co/d/aQvrU0L) that talks about like your inner monologue and things like that. Mindset says one of things you can do is if you deliberately focus on your inner monologue, you can actually change it and it can actually change how you perceive different things. I thought, well, try it with airports. I used to walk around airports and I would just see problems. You see delays, you see people being rude, you see all these bad things that are out there. Dirty people, sweaty people, all the bad things that you see at airports. But I started looking for just good things and trying to find those and doing that a few times. By doing that deliberately, suddenly you start to see good things. You started to see families that hadn't seen each other, excited about going places, little kids traveling having first time airplane experiences, or somebody going for a job interview that they're nervous about. Those little pieces of life that you catch, and then suddenly I find joy in airports now. It's just strange. Also, Admirals Club is nice.

Rhett

(Laughing)

Don H.

Yes, much easier.

Rhett

Than sitting at the gate where the USB cable never fits in the USB charger at the seats.

Don H.

Yep. Yeah, you've done this before.

Rhett

Speaking of travel, I know you've already had a busy January. You and the team are already attending conferences and having client meetings. When you've had these busy months, what do you do to recharge?

Don H

I do think there is something about recharging, but I also think like you have to figure out how to charge while you're doing those things. Using the analogy we were just talking about, if you jump on the airplane and you plug in your iPad, and you're playing on the iPad while it's plugged in, you don't have to recharge the iPad. It's already charging while it's running. So, a lot of it is how you find joy in the things that you are doing on a day-to-day basis. And I do agree that you need to take some time to get away and do stuff to recharge, but it's things like enjoying the airport, or finding a really good place to eat, or taking some time when you're out there just to enjoy the team and looking around at the team you're working with it, things like that. Matt ( Matt Griswold , People Centric Consulting's Keynote Speaker and Expert Trainer) and I were in Des Moines, Iowa at a conference and we were talking about this a little bit. They had a conference in Des Moines, Iowa in January. It was icy and it was snowing and it was really kind of gross outside. We're sitting in the airport and it was snowing pretty good. Our flight leaves in like three hours and we're looking outside going "maybe it leaves in three hours". We had a short time to connect in Dallas, so it was a good chance that we're going to be sleeping in Dallas or in Des Moines again tonight. So, we sat down at this bar. They bring us these wonderful appetizers and we've got these nice drinks and I'm sitting there with Matt, we work together but we're also good friends, and we're just chatting and enjoying each other's time. Taking a moment to say I'm not stressed about whether I get home or not. I can be in this moment. I think that's a piece I'm learning to do better and better. It's just finding the recharge moments. If you look around sometimes there's a charger right in front of you and maybe you can plug yourself in and get some more energy.

Rhett

A couple of times there you've touched on what might be considered mindfulness or being in the moment, finding joy in the moment, finding joy and these little things already in the first couple of questions. That's something that's important to me, personally. Not a lot of people view the world that way. How do you think you came to those types of views of the world?

Don H.

Probably because I'm smarter than everybody else.

Rhett

(laughs) That's what I was thinking.

Don H.

Yeah, I figured that's where you were leaning towards.

Rhett

I was trying to tee that up.

Don H.

I don't know that others are... you think others are missing that?

Rhett

I think a lot of people miss that there's joy accessible all the time.

Don H.

Well let me say some say this, it's easy to say that in that question. It's easy to say I can find joy in those moments and do that, and I just laid out an example. But there are plenty of moments where I don't find the joy and I forget that the charging station is there, and I don't plug into it. So, I think I'm like everybody else. I don't think anybody listening to that is like "Oh my gosh, you're right! I can find joy everywhere". I think it's more of a reminder for everybody. I think everybody knows that, I think it's just a hard habit to build. And I don't know that I'm great at it or better at that habit than anybody else is. I'd just say that it's a nice reminder. It's nice to talk about that too and to say it out loud, because I don't know that I thought about it like that this year. But I think I was successful in that moment this year, which helped on that trip and made that trip less stressful.

Rhett

Well, I appreciate the humility, but I don't think a lot of people are walking to DFW necessarily looking for the moments of beauty and joy.

Don H.

I guess my point is, I'm not always doing that either. Somebody's going to see me and go "There goes Don, looking at the joy!" and watching me run trying to catch a plane. Or "Ah, that flight got canceled again!" or something like that. There are moments that aren't always easy. Life is noisy, and I think we miss that a lot. We have to remind ourselves to try to find those moments. But when you do, observing that recognition. I was thinking just reflecting a little bit on that moment in Des Moines. Why did I find that joy? I think some of it we talked about a little bit earlier. There was so much risk of it not going well. The chance was so high at that moment that we succumbed to that risk. And that kind of removes the fear. So, it's not like, "Oh my gosh, I'm tense that we're going to miss this!" At that point, we were both in the mindset that there is a very high chance that we are going to miss this. So now let's just do what we do. Whereas if you thought you're going to hit it, you're going to get home, and you have this expectation that everything's going to be really smooth and then some curveball hits you, it's easier to knock us off our tracks than if we go, "Okay, I know I'm going to be off my tracks". I don't know if that makes sense or not. We talked about being outside the cave a little bit, like we were outside of the cave. And that's where a lot of joy is.

Rhett

Yeah. I think a lot of our fears live in the expectation that there is a lack of surprises in our daily interactions with the world. We don't handle surprises well. So, when you lean into that mindset, there's no surprises.

Don H.

Yeah. We have a plan. We do a session every year. It's funny, I'm going to tell you we do something, then I'm going to tell you why I didn't do it. We do a session where we do some personal strategic planning. We call it Get Out of Your Own Way. There's a document, there's a process. You sit down, you think about where you're at, you think about your own strengths, you think about opportunities, and you set goals for yourself, and think about partners that you have that are going to help you get there. I've done that every year. I do that with Bethany Bishop who used to be on our team. She works in Nashville now and does that kind of work. We would work on it together and this year we're both in different circumstances in life, but both came to the same conclusion. We said we're not going to do it this year. We're not going to create that plan. Because with the plan, it creates focus, which is good, but sometimes in some stages of your life or some moments of your life, you don't need the focus. You need to look around. The focus shouldn't be on what you expect to happen. The focus should be on what's actually happening around you and then ride with that. Take whatever it gives you and look for those moments of "Oh, my flight got delayed. So, I'm sitting in this place that I wasn't going to be sitting in, but there's joy to be found here". That was a cool place. It was neat. They had a big window, and you can sit there and watch the snow and watch the crews try to clear the snow out over a couple of old fashioneds, that were surprisingly good for an airport bar in Des Moines. Shout out to that place. I don't remember the name of it, unfortunately. But yeah, that wasn't in the plan. Whereas if you had a plan and you were sticking to the plan, and you have the goal, and you're going to miss that goal, you might miss that plan and you might miss that joy. A little bit of planning is good, but over planning and then not paying attention to where you are, is a problem. I say that like I've got that figured out. We all know that intellectually. I think what really happens is we're ambitious and we have expectations, and those expectations are met or not met. We get disappointed if they're not met and we lose those joyful moments.

Rhett

In describing this time with Matt recently, and knowing Matt the little bit that I do, this next question could be a little bit loaded, but...

Don H.

He's the worst. Is that where you're going?

Rhett

That IS what I was going to say. Like, who's the worst person in your office?

Don H.

Oh, it's Matt.

Rhett

Yeah. Sorry Matt. I hope you're not reading this. No, no. Kidding of course. The question is how would your colleagues describe you?

Don H.

That's a good one. I think they would say that I care about people, sometimes to a fault. But I see the best thing people, sometimes to a fault. I think they'd say I'm still an engineer. The engineer still in me, I know I've hidden it really well with this really cool exterior and the Adidas shoes that I wear, stuff like that.? But I'm still kind of a dork inside. Still like processes. I still think in terms of failures. Which is how engineers are trained to think. Which can come across to some folks like it's negative. Why do you always have to talk about how things could NOT work? I get that. Yeah, I think that would be an accurate statement.

Rhett

(Laughs) We've touched it a little bit, but can you describe the work that you do?

Don H.

Yeah, everything that we do is trying to be around becoming people-centric. People-centric organizations are empowered and aligned. Empowered and aligned don't match up together, if you think about it. Empowered means that the individual has a lot more power and say in what they do. The science says that's how people work really, really well. But if everybody's empowered, then you get entitlement, and we don't have alignment. So, you have to balance that? with alignment to say we're all trying to accomplish the same thing together. Are we aligned together so everything that we do helps companies implement systems that help their people feel a balance between empowered and aligned? Which is really cool because it makes people enjoy their jobs more, but also helps the company make more money. I'm blown away that the universe is created in such a way that the most profitable way to operate a business is to take care of your people and do good things. That's cool. I think for too long we thought business had to be bad. We'd say it's just business, it's not personal, that kind of stuff. But the research shows over and over and over again that's an old school, bad way of running a business. If you care about your people and you build relationships with people, they do better work for you, and you make more money at the end of the day. Everybody makes more money. That's really cool that the universe is created like that. It is my personal mission to show that. Recognize that you don't have to sacrifice your life while you're at work. You can love what you do, and you can do great work, and you don't have to be a jerk as a boss. You can care about your people.

Rhett

Yeah, you're speaking my language there. I definitely agree with that 100% and I've experienced it in my own life. You can be relatively in the same place within different organizations and it's a totally different experience from one to the other. I'm more engaged, I'm more productive.

Don H.

Yeah, and you started your career, you spent some of your career getting to do kind of a dream job, right? Doing the band thing and being able to tour a little bit and all that kind of stuff. You've experienced doing something that you're passionate about at your core, right? And then if you're like, "Now I have to grow up and go get a real job and go do that stuff." I imagine, if you've tasted that, it's hard to go back. We have a manager that we're working with who's really got their team clicking. And he's like, "Now that I've tasted what that feels like, I never want to go back to where it's not working. So, I'm always going to work towards that." I think the same thing happens in your career. Once you've tasted a little bit of that, why would I put up with anything less than that? I'm going to find the moments that make me successful. But the trick is, you have to also find moments that make others successful at the same time, right? Those are competing interests. They can be aligned, they can work together, but that's hard. What you want and what your company needs may not be the same thing.

Rhett

Absolutely. How did you get into this line of work?

Don H.

Going back to the story, I started to apply that science a little bit at 3M and saw some weird results, really good results from it. In my little corner, I thought I could help others and decided to jump out. I had a life event, my dad passed away at age 58 from Lou Gehrig's disease. If you've lost somebody really close to you, it shifts your perspective a little bit where you look around and you say, this thing I'm really passionate about, this thing I want to do, what am I waiting for? There's no reason for you to wait for this. And so that gave me a moment to say, "I have a good job with a good company, but it's all good. I think I can do something that I feel great about. So now I'm going to take a risk and jump and do that great thing." So that's what I did. I did it. That story is a lot more complicated than that, and it's a lot messier than that, and then involves a lot more diving into your own 401k and a lot more struggles. Digging for change to go to Taco Bell for lunch. But looking back... I look back fondly at that struggle.

Rhett

You learn a lot about yourself and what the dream is worth. What kind of struggle you can make your way through if you really believe in something?

Don H.

Yeah, and the struggle is hard. I don't want to downplay that, it's awful at times. We talked about this a little bit earlier. If you're doing that, be flexible about it. We'd all like to have levers in our lives. We don't like knobs. We like levers. We're going to throw this lever! Now I'm going to switch from this to this. I turned a bunch of knobs and that works a lot better than throwing the one lever. So yes, the big lever was I left 3M, but I also took an engineering job doing some consulting work. I did that for three or four years after I left 3M. A majority of my bills were paid from that work. There are compromises that you make along the way. I've seen people burn out just trying to go all in on something. You have to be smart about it. I'm not a risk taker. I like to hedge my bets and I think that's smart. The people I've seen that just make a really reckless leap into something and say, "No, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm going to do this." It's really hard to do that.

Rhett

You may have a deeper pool to pull from than most on this next question just based on the line of work.

Don H.

And the fact that I'm the smartest man in the universe?

Rhett

Right. Of course.

Don H.

Like we established earlier.

Rhett

Well sure and I want you to say it.

Don H.

Okay, okay, good. Fair.?

Rhett

I didn't want to have to say it.... I hope that the dryness and sarcasm come across in the typed out version of this.

Don H.

I was just thinking the exact same thing because it's like when we do our podcast ( People Centric Podcast), and you can hear. I can be dry about it, but we do laugh and there's a moment. So yeah, if you're reading this...

Rhett

I'll make sure to put in parentheses...

Don H.?

Yes, "Ha. Ha. Ha. Just Kidding."

Rhett

Yes, "stated sarcastically". What was I saying? Oh yes, the deep pool from which you can pull. The next question is who is the best or most influential boss or leader that you've had the chance to work with and why?

Don H.

The first thing that comes to mind, and I've had some good ones and I've had maybe a few bad ones, but the one that was the most influential, as I think is true for everybody, was my first boss. Ray is his name and I talk about Ray quite a bit in stories. Ray, if you're out there listening, shout out to you. When we teach management, one of the things that we share is to think about your first boss. Think about what you learned from your first, and when I say first, I mean first most influential boss. I don't mean maybe you worked at a pizza place, and you had three supervisors on that's not really your first influential boss.? The first real boss that you have, they make the biggest influence on you because you know nothing about what a boss is going to do. And so, you get in that situation then you watch them, and it actually heavily influences your own management style. You watched what they did and you take what you liked from them. And then you tend to overreact to the things you don't like from them, and you over adjust. So, Ray was my most influential boss. He was brilliant. He was intimidating. Because of his brilliance he was quiet. So, when he said something, everybody would listen. He was empowering and he would let you make mistakes. He would put you in a little bit over your head and make you swim to the top. He was supportive for the most part at times when you needed something. He was not necessarily the meet with you and tell him about all your feelings and let's create a relationship type or anything like that. But more like if things aren't going well, maybe I'll try to help you do something, or I'm going to tell you to suck it up and get back out there and do it. He was good at that stuff. He was one of the smartest people I've ever worked with to this day. He was freakishly smart.

Rhett

Where was this at?

Don H.

It was at ADM at a corn plant in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I'll tell a story that may be really boring to read. This is going to be good. That's good selling. I'm really selling the story.

Rhett

(laughs)

Don H.

There's a piece of equipment we were starting up and it didn't work the first time we ran it. I was out there with another engineer looking at the equipment, and Ray came out there and looked at it and pulled out a piece of paper and drew a modification on the equipment on the piece of paper. He handed it to us and said just do this. The other engineer just looked at and said, "okay", because he'd worked with Ray for a long time. I'm still talking to the other engineer like what's that going to do? How did he come to that conclusion? He just looked at it just for a second and made some significant modification that didn't cost a lot. Long story short, we implemented that it worked perfectly. That's crazy, crazy smart. He came into our control room one time, and he said, "Start shutting down the process. This fan is about to shut down." And I said, "How can you tell the fan is about to shut down?" Ray just said, "I could smell it when I was walking by it." And as we were shutting down, the fan he was talking about shut down. He's like a mythical figure in my life. He's like a Paul Bunyan. The stories have gotten bigger and more powerful. He stared down a tornado one time. There was a tornado, and I wasn't there for it, but the legend was that there was a tornado heading to the plant. There were cornfields all around the plant. As this tornado was heading to the plant, he walked to the edge of the fence line while everybody else was taking cover. And he stared at this tornado, and they said the tornado went back up into the clouds as he was staring at it.

Rhett

(laughs)

Don H.?

It's that kind of a person. Yeah, Paul Bunyan-esque figure.

Rhett

And rode off on his Big Blue Ox.

Don H.

Jumped into his Chrysler and... (both laugh)

Rhett

As a child what did you want to be when you grew up?

Don H.

First, I wanted to be a fireman. I think a lot of kids do because it's cool. Then I wanted to be a helicopter pilot. This is when I displayed my first weirdness. I was born in 74. In 1980, there was the hostage crisis in Iran 1980 and Jimmy Carter sent a helicopter mission to go save the hostages. Even as a little kid, I would watch the news and they crashed the helicopters and then they couldn't save the hostages. So, for a little while I was a little kid, I wanted to be a helicopter pilot so I can go save the hostages in Iran, which I brought up in kindergarten. Which turned into a phone call to my parents. So yeah, that was pretty early on.

Rhett

Turning out to be an engineer is a real shocker.

Don H.

From firemen to helicopter to engineer?

Rhett

Just your approach to it all. A small child watching the news, wanting to save the hostages in Iran.

Don H.

That's the moment Right? (laughs) Yeah, it makes sense if you put it all together.

Rhett Roberson

Yeah man, we kind of see where you're...

Don H

Kind of see where we're going there. Yeah.

Rhett Roberson

What book has had the most profound impact on your life?

Don H.

An early one was Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (https://a.co/d/0rJ3uxQ). The name of my first consulting company before we merged was Galt consulting, which is named after John Galt, the main character in that story. And the line that Atlas Shrugged comes from says if the weight of the world is on your shoulders, like Atlas, what's the best thing for you to do to respond to it? And the answer is, you shrug. And if you shrug, the Earth moves. It's the idea that you can become a creator in the world, and you can really change the world, but if you try to push it too hard, and try to make too much of an impact on it, then the world resists you. The world pushes back. But you can make the biggest impact sometimes by just doing really good things yourself and then watching others learn that by example or learning from others and being humble and that kind of thing. It has been a very impactful book, a friend and fraternity brother of mine, Rick, lent it to me. Again, if he's reading this shout out to Rick! It was hugely impactful for me. It's awesome.

Rhett

What is the most important lesson you've learned so far in life?

Don H.

Most important lesson. What a lame question. (laughing) Most important lesson in life? Don't eat yellow snow. It's not a snow cone. No matter...

Rhett

That really is like a cradle to grave lesson, you know? Some of these only apply in the middle.

Don H.

You can use that one all the time. If you're a second grader reading this, you're going to use that. I don't know, I guess there are lots of lessons, but did you learn the lesson? There are lessons that are out there! The one that screams at me right now is, just chill out. Chill out. Don't be so intense. It's going to come. You don't influence people by pushing them. You influence people by meeting them where they are and then slowly walking with them. Then they'll walk with you. I think that's I'll go with that one.

Rhett Roberson

It's good!

Don H.

AND the snow.

Rhett

Right. The snow is immediately useful and then there's one that you kind of have to internalize.

Don H.

Yep, yeah.

Rhett

It's a well-rounded answer. What advice would you offer young professionals entering the workforce today?

Don H.

Probably the one I just said is a good one. I think back to young Don, and there are some young Don stories. Like, man, I was leaving Don shaped holes in the wall in places and a lot of it has relaxed. Another one that I think changes over time that's hard to hear, you can hear it, but you don't REALLY hear it as a young professional, is the value of time. As you get older, I think you use time as a tool. When you're a young professional and you say "this is going to happen three months from now", that feels like a long time. As you get older, that doesn't feel so long. So sometimes letting things cook for a second is a good thing. It's like planting a seed and then sitting back and waiting for that to grow. That is a powerful moment. You don't have to have it all now. You don't have to push so hard. Relax. There's a good song, I think of the Billy Joel song Vienna. If you haven't listened to it, Google that one. Shout out to Billy Joel, as he reads this, to another hugely impactful artist in my life. I'm a huge Billy Joel fan, but Vienna says "Slow down you crazy child. You're so ambitious for a juvenile. But then if you're so smart tell me why are you still so afraid?" is the line. I think that's a good lesson.

Rhett

Yeah. You're just going to be the only 52 cups that has a shout out list at the bottom.

Don H.

That's good.

Rhett

What are you most proud of?

Don H.

My Billy Joel collection. (laughs)

Rhett

Yeah. Of Course.

Don H

That also dates me. Because you're like, "You're collecting? You just get Apple Music, and you have all of the..."

Rhett

Yes, I have that collection right here!?

Don H

I have that collection with me... at all times... What are you talking about? I'm most proud of my kids. I quote, Homer Simpson, and he's talking about Lisa Simpson in an episode of The Simpsons. Shout out to Homer Simpson. He said, "You're my greatest accomplishment and you did it all by yourself." I think that sums up parenting. That's absolutely true. I'm super proud of my kids and it's not for what they've accomplished or where they're going, but who they are. Whatever they do next is good. They're just the most interesting people I've ever met.

Rhett

It's rare, but I guess as the father of a little girl, it's rare Homer Simpson quote can get you in your feelings, but that's a good one.

Don H.

That's a good one, right?

Rhett

Yeah.

Don H.

You're my greatest accomplishment. You did it all by yourself.

Rhett

Yeah, that's good stuff. Final question. How do you hope that the world is better for having you?

Don H.

Impact is one of our values as a company. It's nice to get paid, but it's nicer to watch that company make a change and make a transformation. It's nice to see it impact other people's lives. I hope there's more people that enjoy what they do. I hope there's more organizations that do it really well. And I hope those organizations use that power that they found. Power that they've unleashed in their people, to go do other good work. The political climate right now scares the crap out of me. It's people looking to fight each other. We have some leaders on both sides of the aisle, not to be too political about it, but on both sides of the aisle who are programming us to try to fight with each other. Which is very non-people-centric. It's not alignment. It's not empowerment. We need other people in our lives, and we have to take on this cause because I think it's bad for us as a society. So, I'm going to hope that I impact the people around me to resist that and realize that we can disagree and we can still figure it out together. We can and we don't have to fight. I think that was a little bit of a mixed answer, but that's the impact I'm thinking about right now. Just be curious in your life if somebody comes to you and says something outrageous. Like, "that TV is too large." Something like that. Something outrageous that you've never heard in your life. I've never heard anyone say that TV is too big. If your friend comes and says that TV is too big, our tendency is to start to argue with the other person and tell them why that TV is not too big. Where the really good response is to ask questions. Why do you say that? Tell me a little bit more about that. And it turns out if you do ask those questions, if the other person is wrong, then that helps them to unpack their position. That's the best opportunity you have to let them understand why they are wrong. If you're wrong, and you ask the questions, then you're going to hear insights that you didn't have before, and you'll realize you're wrong. It's more common that you realize that you're both a little wrong, and you're both a little right. Then asking the questions helped you both discover that at the same time. Those are three really good outcomes from asking those questions. I hope that I help the world to be more curious. I guess that's a good summary for all of that. I could have just said that the beginning and that could have saved you five pages of stuff. But yeah, I hope the world becomes more curious.

Rhett

Cool. Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking time out of your morning, longwinded or not. This is going to be a good one. I'm excited to get this posted.

Don H.

I appreciate you doing this too. I'm curious to see what the output of this project is and I'm glad you spend your time doing this. And thanks for breakfast. (Leans in close to the mic) He buys breakfast for everybody who does this they should know that.?

Rhett

(Laughing) The list is getting longer all of the sudden.

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Book: Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (https://a.co/d/0rJ3uxQ)

Shoutouts: A bar at the Des Moines airport, Ray who once stared down a tornado, Rick who lent out Atlas Shrugged, Billy Joel (specifically for Vienna), Homer Simpson.

People Centric Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/1DjxX9JZAX0taEXQFaPmeU?si=a80c3332c95c4d90