52 Cups of Coffee: 417 Edition - Cup 28/52 - Kurt Hellweg
Rhett Roberson, MAOP
Organizational Psychology MA | Mindfulness Teacher | Aspiring Good Human Being
Here's the weekly boilerplate intro if you've already read anything from past cups of coffee skip ahead to the cup of coffee below the name!
After hearing about the book 52 Cups of Coffee on a Podcast, I thought it sounded like a great opportunity to connect to people in my community. Initially, my plan was to just have coffee once a week with someone I know. I was thinking of friends, family members, or colleagues with whom I could spend some quality time. But the opportunity to engage with my community is always in the back of my mind. So I thought it might be interesting to ask the same set of questions to a diverse cast of influential and interesting people in the 417 area and share them here on my LinkedIn page. At the end of the year, who knows what we'll have... at the very least it's 52 interesting conversations. It's a loose plan. I don't have any real intentions and I think that's the beauty of it. Curiosity. Community. And a chance to learn a little bit from each person. A big thanks to the folks at Travellers House Coffee & Tea for being willing to provide a place to chat and several cups of coffee throughout the year!
**I don't like taking notes while having coffee and conversation so I've trusted Otter to do the transcribing. Any editing issues are my own. I'm not a professional. :) I've included a list of books we discuss throughout the conversation at the bottom.
Kurt Hellweg - 28/52
Kurt Hellweg spent over 30 years working at American Dehydrated Foods/International Dehydrated Foods where he worked through the ranks of the company and eventually was the Chairman of the Board at the time the company was sold in 2019 for $900 million. Bill Darr asked Kurt to join the company in 1987 after having started the company in 1978 with a $50,000 loan. I'd say that by any measure that's a return we'd all be pretty satisfied with!
Kurt is an active member of the community, serving on various boards in the 417 area, and through his family's foundation, The Hatch Foundation. I found that Kurt is a champion for all of the good that the 417 area has to offer and he and his family really live that through The Hatch Foundation, which focuses on creating a means by which Springfield can reach its full potential. As a member of the community here that is really passionate about the area, I think that's a pretty incredible thing to do.
His philosophies on relationships, life, family, and leadership really make for some quotable quotes in the discussion below and I certainly came away from our discussion with some new ideas that I will keep with me going forward. In addition to all of the normal "business news" type discussion, Kurt is just a cool guy. Turns out we have a lot of similar interests, so pardon me for not editing out the motorcycle, music, books, and other hobby talk! That's the stuff that makes a person who they are. I've included links to musicians in this one for the first time and the regular links to books as well. You could spend an afternoon going through all of those suggestions and I hope you do.
I had a blast hanging out with Kurt and it rolled into the rest of the day as we shared photos of our individual trips over Beartooth Pass. In fact, I had so much fun that I've already tried to twist his arm into another off the record hang out. Kurt says below, "if I can bring a smile, if I can get people to think a little bit more, influence them,... help them find their path to become a better person, then I've been successful." By that metric, this cup of coffee was very successful.
I hope you enjoy the conversation (and the music links), I sure did. We sat down at Architect Coffee and that's where the discussion takes off!
Rhett Roberson?
What is the CliffsNotes version of the story of you??
Kurt Hellweg?
I was born in St. Louis, my dad worked at Cooper Industries, which is a large organization. He put himself through night school where he got his degree in electrical engineering, and then he started working his way up the corporate ladder. As you probably know, working your way up in a large organization requires you to move a lot. So, I moved around a lot as a kid. I was nine when we moved from St. Louis to Chicago, when I was 12 or 13 we moved to Pittsburgh, when I was 16 we moved to Omaha. I graduated high school there and had a Navy ROTC scholarship, so I went to University of Nebraska, because I had a girlfriend in Omaha. I wanted to be close to her, but I went to Nebraska and she promptly dumped me, so that was a life lesson.?
Rhett Roberson?
(Laughs)?
Kurt Hellweg?
I ended up marrying her, so everything turned out alright! I graduated with a degree in engineering and had my time to pay back to Uncle Sam. Enroute to flight school, I got married here in Springfield. I was in the Navy for about seven years where I flew helicopters. We had two kids while I was in the Navy. About the time my initial obligation was up, my father in law, Bill Darr , made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I didn't end up with a horse's head in my bed or anything (laughs), but it was more like, "Yeah, come join the family business."
At that point, the business looked like it had legs. So, we move back here and about that time, his first wife, my wife Sherry's mom, died of cancer. He was going through a lot of stuff, as you can imagine, personal tragedy stuff and having to deal with that. I joined the Guard here and flew helicopters for them as I was getting my feet wet in the family business. After about five years of that, I could tell that I had a place in the business and I was adding more value, so I quit the guard and then started working in the business and really giving it my full time attention.
I had varying degrees of responsibility in the business and ended up finally, being the president, and then CEO, and then chairman of the board, and then sold the businesses four years ago. Now I've opened up a family office with my family, our son and daughter, we started The Hatch Foundation. My daughter is running that and doing an awesome job. My son is an architect over at Arkifex, and he's doing an awesome job. That's where I am right now.
Rhett Roberson?
(Laughs)? Yeah, that's great. Such an interesting story and progression. Do you still fly at all??
Kurt Hellweg?
No, I don't. But, matter of fact, I saw something in an article recently about a couple that just opened up a helicopter flying business, giving lessons out of the downtown airport. I was thinking I might just go there and get current again and see where that takes me.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, that seems like a fun to me. I've only been in a helicopter once in my life, but always seemed really intriguing. I feel like I would have more fun flying one. I grew up playing flight simulators. I'm eventually going to ask you what you want to be when you grow up, but mine was a fighter pilot. I still love a flight sim, but I really think the different movements of the helicopter would make it fun to learn.?
Kurt Hellweg?
When I went through flight school, I was thinking fighter pilot, but I'd never flown before. So, my first six or seven hops anytime we went over about a 45 degree angle or bank, I'm looking for a barf bag. I thought, "there's no way I'm going to be able to be a fighter pilot, if that's my physical reaction." It turns out you get used to it. You overcome that.?
Rhett Roberson?
How long did you work for the company after you made the move away from working for the Guard??
Kurt Hellweg?
I started in the family business in 1987, by '92 or '93, when I quit the Guard, I was vice president of sales. I was running the sales and marketing efforts, and then started looking at supply chain management. So, I was with the business really from '87 until we sold it in 2019. 32 years.?
Rhett Roberson?
How is... would you call it retirement now??
Kurt Hellweg?
I don't think it's retirement. I think everybody has a different view of what retirement is. I think my problem is, I'm a curious guy. My philosophy on life is that life is like an all-you-can-eat buffet. It's like a smorgasbord. I have this drive to try everything. I'm not going to be stuck at one little feeding station, or just pasta or salad, I want to try it all. So for me, retirement was just another way for me to further explore a lot of the hobbies that I've got and the things that I'm curious about looking into. I would say I'm just as busy as I was back then, but just focusing on different things.?
Rhett Roberson?
I think I'm in a similar boat. My wife says that my hobby is having hobbies.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Right! Yeah. You and I are kindred spirits. My wife would say the same thing.?
Rhett Roberson?
I get about 90% of the way into learning something, but it's the last 10% that takes years and years to master. I never get to mastery, but I get to pretty good understanding and then on to the next thing.?
Kurt Hellweg?
(Laughs) Yep. Have you ever thought about flying drones??
Rhett Roberson?
Yes, and I do have a drone! I just did a big project with work. We rode motorcycles out from Lebanon, Tennessee, Nashville area, to North Carolina. We pulled The Wall That Heals, which is a three quarter size replica of the Vietnam Memorial Wall. We pulled it with one of our trucks and had our military themed wrapped trailer behind it.?I took a lot of video footage with the drone as we went.
Kurt Hellweg?
Nice. What did you guys ride??
Rhett Roberson?
I have a BMW GS Adventure.?
Kurt Hellweg?
(We throw a high five.) I had a BMW R series. Full fairings, saddlebags. I loved that thing.?
Rhett Roberson?
When I texted you originally, I thought somebody had told me that you were into motorcycles.?
Kurt Hellweg?
I ended up selling it about six years ago. I got into bike riding. Our office was on Sunshine and Blackman Road, and I was doing one of my rides in the back country and was coming up a climb. I was in my lane, but sort of close to the center line and this pickup truck came over the hill and ran me off into the ditch. I was fine, but it was about that time I thought if I was on my motorcycle, I wouldn't have been doing 12 miles an hour up this hill, I would have been full throttle. I probably would have killed myself or at least really hurt myself. A lot of that stuff needs to be second nature and if you're not doing it all the time, it's not. It's like when people ask me if I still fly. Well, no, I don't fly because I know what skill set you have to have and the older you get, your reactions slow down. I thought, "I'm not ready to pack it in quite yet, so maybe this is something I need to get rid of."
Rhett Roberson?
I can definitely say my riding style has changed significantly since having a child.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yep.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, I hit old man riding really fast.?
Kurt Hellweg?
No more scraping the cylinder head protectors!?
Rhett Roberson?
That is correct! (Laughs) What brings you joy?
Kurt Hellweg?
I think a lot of things bring me joy. Helping people figure stuff out, helping them achieve some of their dreams, their ambitions, or their goals. For me personally, it's also figuring stuff out. I love mastering the puzzle. I love discovering new things. I also love putting smiles on people's faces. I like to be surrounded by happy people. The fact that there can be something that's unplanned that can happen and brings a smile to their face, or it causes them this little "AHA!" kind of moment, I really get off on that.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah. I think I might know the answer to this a little bit. What do you do when you need to recharge??
Kurt Hellweg?
Take a nap. (Laughs) I find that being in nature is recharging, to the extent that I can be in nature. It's sort of a lonely thing. I think I'm more of an introvert than people think. People would say "No, you're not.", but I kind of enjoy Kurt time, I enjoy me time. So, being in a stream, hip deep, fishing a seam where I know there's a fish in there. You don't know for sure, but you know there should be one in there. Figuring out how you're going to catch that thing. That brings me joy. Discovering new things and just being curious. Maybe a new book, maybe a new author I've never read, a new movie I haven't seen. I don't know, exploration, I suppose. Exploration and mastering.?
Rhett Roberson?
How would your colleagues describe you? And maybe it should be how would your colleagues have described you in the past??
Kurt Hellweg?
Boy, that'd be up to them. I would hate to put the words in anybody's mouth. You'd probably have to ask them. One guy said, "You know, Kurt, you're like a renaissance man." And I said, "Bob, what did you mean by that?" He said, "You have this insatiable appetite that you just have to discover, and try, and figure out new things." As you talked about, your hobby is your hobbies, and I think that kind of describes me as well. There are all of these different things. I've gotten a knife building, I have built Katana swords, I built folding blades, I built fixed blades. I love to cook, I love to explore cooking. I roast coffee, I've got a coffee roaster at home. I just dork out in that kind of stuff. I joined the board for Askinosie Chocolate, and I'm just trying to help him understand how he can work in these rural areas and get these farmers to help drive consistency and quality in the fermented beans. You know, I just love figuring out new stuff.?
Rhett Roberson?
Shawn ( Shawn Askinosie ) was my first interview!?
Kurt Hellweg?
Is that right? Isn't he a great guy??
Rhett Roberson?
Man, I talked to Shawn before the interview a little bit, just back and forth over email because I read his book and then knowing of him from just being around town, of course. The chocolate is great...?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, not bad!
Rhett Roberson?
...but I've been in Springfield long enough to remember when he was known for being a super successful attorney. Pre-chocolatier. That was the first one and I thought, "Man, if these go like this the rest of the year, it's going to be an amazing experience." That was just one of 52!?
Kurt Hellweg?
His view on conscientious capitalism, and the way that he goes about it, I completely subscribe to. Capitalism can be destructive, because the whole notion is it's based on consumption. And consumption, in my mind, is based on people feeling inadequate or that they have to have something because that's going to get them to a better place. Which is completely f****d up.?
Rhett Roberson?
Right.?
Kurt Hellweg?
But I think that the whole idea of capitalism, once you as an individual can understand and think what human nature is all about... Yes, let's understand that, okay. Then you can take a look at capitalism, as a way that you can bring money into a society and then share that back. I mean, it's awesome. You have to get out of the "it's all about me" kind of thing. It's about us. If you can make that turn or course correction, that it isn't about you, it's about us, capitalism can be a great tool to make everybody better.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, and that's refreshing and encouraging to hear out of someone who's had, by all of the regular metrics, a successful career in capitalist ventures.?
Kurt Hellweg?
You know, I think you've got to be careful about what your scorecard is.?It's great, okay, you built a company. What were the sales of the company? What were the profits of the company? You sold that. They're just all numbers. When it boils down to it, you've got to understand there's always going to be somebody better than you. When I get frustrated when I look at the world and I'm thinking, "How can people miss this?" But when you look at the bell curve, the average IQ is 100, right? And that means that, for those of you that are 120, there's a lot of folks that are between 100 and 80. You just have to think about that in capitalism as well. On the scorecard, wherever you're at, you're never going to be at the at the very end of the head and you're never going to be at the very tail. So just keep it all in perspective, and just get comfortable. So, I get those metrics, but I never tried to get too caught up in those things.?
Rhett Roberson?
Sure.?I like that perspective. Can you describe the work that you do now? And also, can you describe the work as the CEO of IDF/ADF??
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, as a CEO of an organization, especially the family business, I think you consider the dynamics of the family members, we've got a lot of family members that are shareholders that aren't working in the business. They're looking at that as "I want this money to come in." It boils down to what do you need money for? If you need money to buy a new car, to live in a fancier house, to have better clothes, or a nice watch, just materialistic stuff, is that really what this is all about? We're in the family business, we're here for their shareholders, but they're not necessarily shareholders, they're family members that you're in contact with a lot. It is kind of stressful. It would have been different if I would have started the business, because then everybody has to fall in line, but I didn't start the business. I'm just a voice like all the rest of them and I'm not a shareholder. I represent my wife's interest, not mine. But anyway, so that environment aside...?
Rhett Roberson?
I think that's an interesting dynamic, representing your wife as a shareholder.?
Kurt Hellweg?
(Laughs) Yeah, and my advice would be that in a family business, you can't prune the family tree, but you can prune the ownerships and I would suggest that anybody that's in a family business should look at that and study that. Make sure that the tree is pruning the way you want it to be pruned.
So, the job I did as a CEO and as a president is just about... you know, the concept of business is really simple. It's to create value and extract as much value as you can from the marketplace. It's a simple concept, but it's very difficult to do. If you extract too much value, you invite competition. If you're not treating your suppliers right, you invite competition. If you don't treat your employees right, you invite competition. So, it's really about trying to balance all of those things and putting moats up around the business as best you can so that you don't have competition coming over the walls. It's also making sure that you're always on the forefront of new products and innovation. So, that really is the CEO, I think that was my job, to make sure everybody was focused on how we're getting bigger, and how we're getting more profit, but then how we're also supporting everybody, and that's really a win-win-win-win-win kind of a relationship. We had an awesome profit sharing program. We took care of our employees very well and I think that we really tried to do well with our suppliers and our customers. It's just making sure everybody is not getting too tangential, not getting too far out over their skis, and making sure we're all working together as a team.?
Rhett Roberson?
You touched on it a little bit earlier, but how did you get into that particular line of work??
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, it was my father-in-law. He wanted to have his two daughters, to have family, close by. My background is in engineering, and you get it, engineers are educated or trained to see the big picture. But also, the big picture is made up of all of these little connections. If you want to get from point A to point Z, there are a lot of different pathways to get there, but as an engineer, you're trained to think a little bit more creatively about how you can put that together. So, for me, operationally speaking, I love the operations, I loved quality control, I love just trying to squeeze out a little bit more efficiency. At the end of the day, I got there because I married right. (Laughs)?
Rhett Roberson?
(Laughs) Well, we can all shoot for that too. As you went, because you really came up through the business doing marketing, doing...?
Kurt Hellweg?
...the supply chain.?
Rhett Roberson?
Right. What was your leadership style as president and CEO? Did you find yourself getting hyper involved with those things that you had known as your responsibility in the past? Are you more of a hands off leader??
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think there were things that I knew I was good at and things that I knew I wasn't really good at. I always felt like I was really good at customer relationships. I enjoyed that, but I felt like from a processing standpoint, there were people that were better than me. You always try to surround yourself with good people, I always wanted to be the stupidest person there. Everybody wants to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I didn't want to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I wanted other people that were smarter than me, that could challenge me, that could challenge each of their groups, and play well in the sandbox. For me it was probably hardest to let go of that customer. I always felt that you need to get as much value as you can out of what you're providing for the customer. The customer is sitting on the other side of the table trying to pound you down as low as they possibly can. So, I think to be a good salesperson, you've got to be courageous. I guess that's the thing that always frustrated me. I would always try and jump in there and tell folks that they're not demanding enough or asking enough. You've got to be able to show your value to the customer, and show them, while you're not asking for all of that, you want your fair share. So, interesting question. For me, I found myself more involved in the sales side than I maybe should have been. But that was always the burr under my saddle. (Laughs)?
Rhett Roberson?
Sure. Was that because you had established relationships from working through the chain of command?? Did you remain involved with the accounts that you were previously involved with?
Kurt Hellweg?
No, I completely turned that over. I think that to be good in any negotiation, if you have the decision maker in the room, I think decisions get made, but maybe the best decisions don't get made. I wanted to remove myself and make sure that they had an out, that they could come back to somebody else before they had permission to do what they were thinking that they should do. So, I pretty much turned the accounts over.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah. It'd be a lot to manage, the overall strategic direction and the accounts at the same time! Who's the best boss or leader that you've had the opportunity to work with and what made them so good??
Kurt Hellweg?
There are a couple of them. My father-in-law was awesome. A great, great leader. When he stepped down and turned it over to me after I'd been on the job for 10 years he said, "Kurt you've got this." For all intents and purposes, it was great. You were talking about Christenson and how you just need to be like, "Here's the keys, you do it." That's what Bill did for me. But Bill is very gracious, very good to people, he's got a great heart. I learned a lot from him about that. He's very much an attention to detail kind of guy. He's sort of like that EF Hutton commercial, "When EF Hutton talks, people listen!" When Bill talks, people are like, "Wow, that's good stuff!" Bill is a good one.
My background being in the Navy, as a pilot, you're flying the machine, but you've got the enlisted crew that are keeping the machine up and running. Understanding that I'm the guy in control, but there's a lot of people that are making this thing flyable or making this thing work. I brought that philosophy into the business as well, just that appreciation for how everybody builds it to be what it can do.?
Rhett Roberson?
What did you want to be as a child?
Kurt Hellweg?
It depends what period of time you're asking about. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a St. Louis Cardinal. I wanted to be Bob Gibson, but that didn't work out.? When I was in middle school, I wanted to be a jazz flutist. I played the flute back in the day in school when I was in Pittsburgh. I was really involved with a lot of competition. I wanted to be a jazz flutist and move out to Los Angeles and be a session musician. Then when I moved to Nebraska, which probably wasn't the cultural center of the jazz flutist world...?(Laughs)
Rhett Roberson?
(Laughs)
Kurt Hellweg?
...then I think I wanted to be a pilot.
Rhett Roberson?
Did you continue to play music??
Kurt Hellweg?
I can still play, yeah. My wife also plays the flute and so we'll take that thing out and play every so often, but it's not like it was back in the day where you're practicing a couple hours a day and really honing your chops.?
Rhett Roberson?
I played bass in the middle school jazz band.
Kurt Hellweg?
Oh, really? Nice. String bass?
Rhett Roberson?
Yep!
Kurt Hellweg?
Awesome.
Rhett Roberson?
I still play a little bit. I've got electric basses at the house.
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah. So, who are your favorite bass players?
Rhett Roberson?
Oh, boy...
Kurt Hellweg?
Something like a Stanley Clarke??
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, definitely. My dad played drums, big jazz guy. I grew up listening to the same type of jazz and funk heroes of the 70's.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Also, like Mahavishnu Orchestra kind of stuff. Jean-Luc Ponty.?
Rhett Roberson?
Oh yeah! Do you remember back in the KGBX had 70's Saturday? When I was a kid growing up around here, going around town on Saturdays with Dad was always 70's Saturday. Stanley Clarke is definitely a big one.?
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Kurt Hellweg?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah! Of course, Victor Wooten.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Rhett Roberson?
But that's almost not bass.
Kurt Hellweg?
(Laughs) Yeah. Yeah.
Rhett Roberson?
He's turned it into a different thing altogether.
Kurt Hellweg?
Did you ever see... Oh, who's that banjo guy he played with??
Rhett Roberson?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah. Did you ever see them when they came into town??
Rhett Roberson?
I haven't seen them here. I haven't seen Bela in a bit. He was touring with his wife, Abigail Washburn.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, I forgot about that. Bela Fleck and the Flecktones used to come into town about every year and I was just a disciple of that.?
Rhett Roberson?
I saw Bela Fleck and the Flecktones down at the auditorium in Eureka Springs with my dad. So, I was probably in high school, maybe even middle school.?
Kurt Hellweg?
No kidding!?
Rhett Roberson?
That was a great show, man. I couldn't believe they were playing there. I saw Victor and his brothers here at Juanita K.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Oh, really? I didn't know he had his own band. I need to check that out.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, that's kind of stuff I got into. Then oddly enough, played in a country band for several years.?
Kurt Hellweg?
You do? Who do you listen to now?
Rhett Roberson?
Who do I listen to now? A lot of singer songwriter type stuff now. People like Foy Vance is a big one that I really like. He's an Irish fella. Just a great songwriter. Jason Isbell.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Oh, I love Jason. Oh my god.?
Rhett Roberson?
I'm big on songwriters. If you can write a song that messes with me, then I'll listen!
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah. Sturgill Simpson?
Rhett Roberson?
Love Sturgill. Then, of course, Stapleton is a prolific songwriter.?
Kurt Hellweg?
And I imagined Taylor Swift too, right??
Rhett Roberson?
Well, I have a three year old daughter so...
Kurt Hellweg?
I took my granddaughters out to the Taylor Swift concert. So yeah, I'm definitely a Swiftie. I should have worn my t-shirt.?
Rhett Roberson?
Where'd you go to a show? Kansas City??
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, we went to Dallas, then we went to Kansas City.?
Rhett Roberson?
You got both! Nice. Talk about granddaughter bonus points. You really earned them.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Oh yeah! (Laughs) I think so. I think so.?
Rhett Roberson?
What book has had the most impact on you??
Kurt Hellweg?
Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. My philosophy of life is kind of like that koan about one hand clapping. I think that until you know yourself, really know yourself, you really can't understand the rest of the world. Our relationships are all based on the fact that we're social beings, we want to have relationships with other people, but until you really understand yourself, I don't know that you can really understand other people. So, my quest and the meaning of life, if somebody asked me the meaning of life, I would say to know yourself, and really know yourself. I remember reading Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus back when I was in college, or right out of college and it just sort of opened my eyes to another further step in that discovery of who I am.?
Rhett Roberson?
Are you a Zen guy??
Kurt Hellweg?
I don't know, I would say I'm more of a Stoic than I am a Zen guy.
Rhett Roberson?
I think Zen and Stoicism are the closest. That's definitely the school of Buddhism that overlaps with stoicism the most completely.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah. You know if I pick another, I studied under Swami Parthasarathy which really taught me a lot about Vendanta. I don't know if you know Vendanta, but that's kind of the same thing. Just about who we are and how we react. We are our emotions, they bubble up from within. So, understand, from the moment you experience something to the moment you react, you control that whole thing there. So, understanding yourself gives you a better opportunity to control that whole thing.?
Rhett Roberson?
The sacred pause.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Sacred pause? I like that! I hadn't heard that.
Rhett Roberson?
It's kind of what that practice allows. That's my experience. I'm no longer immediately the thing. I'm just this is much removed.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, but the problem with that is I love to live spontaneously, I love spontaneity, but sometimes my basic instincts don't push me in the best direction. So yeah, I guess that book. Also, some of the religious tones. I guess A River Runs Through It. I don't know if you've ever read that book, that was really good. I'm in the middle of reading the Poisonwood Bible now. Which is fun. Zen in The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance probably, I remember reading that. Richard Brautigan, Trout Fishing in America.?
Rhett Roberson?
That's a great book! You're blowing my mind right now. I did not expect those last two, I'll be very honest. I didn't know you before this, so what would I expect? But both of those books are on the bookshelf at home.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Is that right??
Rhett Roberson?
Yes! Yep. Well worn.
Kurt Hellweg?
Did you ever read any Cormac McCarthy? Blood Meridian or No Country for Old Men??
Rhett Roberson?
Oh, yeah!?
Kurt Hellweg?
That's another guy, I'm just a veracious reader of Cormac McCarthy, God rest his soul.?
Rhett Roberson?
That's cool. Yeah!... just blew my mind a little bit. (Laughs)?
Kurt Hellweg?
(Laughs) Come back to Earth!?
Rhett Roberson?
What's the most important lesson you've learned so far in life??
Kurt Hellweg?
In life? You know, it's not all about me, but it is all about me. In the sense that, and we kind of talked about that before, until you really understand yourself, you don't understand the world at large. It's not a selfish thing at all, but you really have to be deliberate about what you do and why you do it. I guess off the top of my head, it really is about other people. It really is the influence that you have to the rest of the world, everybody out there. But until you really have a good grip on who you are, you're not going to have as great of an impact on others as you really need to. It's sort of this yin and yang about understanding yourself but being a vessel for other people to operate through.?
Rhett Roberson?
What advice would you offer to young professionals entering the workforce?
Kurt Hellweg?
There are a couple of things. Understand why you're doing what you're doing. What is it? Why are you entering into this profession, or this job, or whatever? Really understand that and embrace it. If you find yourself doing a sh***y job, don't do it. Do something different. For the folks that say, "I'm doing this because of the money." Really? That just seems so silly. So, understand why you're doing it, enjoy what you're doing, and then be a lifelong student. Really learn. Because you're never going to have it all figured out. Be a student of what it is that you're doing, and be open, be vulnerable to allowing new thoughts to come into your headspace. I think that's good. And I would add, just persevere. I would take hard work over intelligence almost anytime. One of the hardest things for me when I got out of the military and I started working on a civilian job was that in the military, there were no excuses. Dude, this is the mission. I don't want to hear about how you didn't get it done. That's what I'm paying you for! Get it done, overcome those obstacles I don't want to hear about the obstacles. For me, one of the hardest things was when we say we're going to start at eight o'clock, and people were rolling in at five after eight. No. Time on target is this particular time. So, I think for a lot of people, the advice is be disciplined, have grit, and don't give up. Don't make excuses. Be a student of what you're doing, enjoy what you're doing, and understand why you're doing it. That's a mouthful.?
Rhett Roberson?
It's a good one though! That's all good stuff. What are you most proud of?
Kurt Hellweg?
I'm most proud of my relationship with my wife and the two great kids that we've raised. They're both still here in Springfield. Our daughter ( Erin Danastasio ) runs our foundation, and our son ( Tyler Hellweg, NCARB, AIA, LEED AP ) is an architect. He graduated from Drury. They're both killing it and it's just neat to see them grow. They're just well-grounded, level-headed, great kids. And in the middle of raising families, going through all the stresses that Sherry and I did all those years ago.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yeah, I always wondered why my parents wanted grandkids so much. We weren't going to have kids, it wasn't our path. But now I understand from a different perspective. You don't understand how much your parents love you until you've had a child of your own, but you also don't understand the sacrifice that goes into it. Not just the financial sacrifice, although there is that, but it's a sacrifice of self and time and lifestyle. Of everything!?
Kurt Hellweg?
Right!?And navigating that, if I were your parent, I would tell you to understand your parenting philosophy. That would be my advice I would give to every parent. Be mindful of what your parenting philosophy is. Sherry and I used to just clash. I was a disciplinarian, Sherry was much more "Oh, the kids are born with a pure heart." I thought "No, they're not. They're not born with anything. It's up to us to guide them." But what we finally ended up with was, what is our objective as a parent? How do we know we were good parents? For us it came down to whether we raised happy, productive members of society, full stop, that's it, that's all. So, everything we did from that point on, if it revolved around that, we knew that we were making the right decision. For the parent child relationship, from the business standpoint, I think when the child is young, you're the manager. "Do this, do this, do this." You lay it all out. Then you want to make that transition to "I'm no longer your manager, I'm your consultant. If you want to, talk to me, but I'm not here to manage you anymore. This is your deal." A lot of philosophy there but...?
Rhett Roberson?
No, that's some of the best guidance I've heard. I'm going to take that away. That's one of the most insightful pieces of parenting advice I've received. That transition from manager to consultant. That's good. Final question, and my favorite question, how do you hope the world is better for having you??
Kurt Hellweg?
I hope the world smiles more. I hope that I bring some joy, or bring happiness, or contentment, or peace, or whatever that might be. I always feel like leaving the world, or leaving any place, any person, a more improved version, a better person, a better place, as a result of me being there. Maybe it's that Boy Scout thing, you take all your trash out and you have to take other people's trash as well. It's just that whole philosophy of leaving the world a better place than what you found. I think it's ascribed to the Native Americans the idea that we don't own this right now, we're renting it from our grandkids, great grandkids. It's that philosophy that you've got responsibility for future generations to come. But in the here and now, if you can bring happiness and if you can bring a smile, to me personally, if I can bring a smile, if I can get people to think a little bit more, influence them, I don't want to change them, but help them find their path to become a better person, then I've been successful.
Rhett Roberson?
That's fantastic. That's all I officially have for you and what a great way to wrap it up. Is there anything else I didn't ask that I should have or anything you'd like on record??
Kurt Hellweg?
No, we talked about our favorite musicians, we talked about our favorite books. But talking more about change, how do you... I think being vulnerable is the key to people changing, but I also think that most people don't change. I think you'd have to be conscious about embracing the change. I think most people are where they are as a result of a "better the devil you know, versus the devil you don't know" mindset. Even though they know that they need to change. How do we get people to embrace change? What's the pathway? It shouldn't be pain. For most people it's like, a relationship goes bad then they really do some introspection. Or something bad happens and that causes a change. How can we get people to change in a positive way??
Rhett Roberson?
When I was going through my master's program, Industrial Organizational Psychology, it's the psychology of what makes people tick at work. Basically, my interest came from getting into books like Shawn Achor's book The Happiness Advantage. Sonja Lyubomirsky, I'm pronouncing that name terribly, but she wrote The How of Happiness and teaches at the University of California. Before I went into that master's program, I was just trying to address the question the big question: "How do I find fulfilment?"?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah.?
Rhett Roberson?
What's the "big P" purpose? That was the impetus for that study. So, I was in a pain induced change. Like you're talking about. Part of that study included, a real pragmatic, look at getting over that fear of change. There is an equation for it. Of course, it's not an equation that you put real numbers into, but it's about overcoming the resistance to change, you must find a way to communicate the value of the change in a way that exceeds the weight of the fear.?
Kurt Hellweg
The pain. Yeah.?
Rhett Roberson
(The Beckhard-Harris formula for change... I had to look up the name later!) The formula basically states that Dissatisfaction x Vision x First Steps > Resistance. So the potential outcome and the path to the outcome must outweigh the resistance to change within the system.
I don't think that there's a single way to do that. There's not a silver bullet. You have to show and acknowledge that this is going to be uncomfortable. None of us are going to like it. We'd all like to just come to work do the exact same thing every day, get raises for hitting our numbers, and then go home. But if we see that we've deviated from the goals, we can all agree that we're not hitting where we're supposed to be hitting. That's why we need to create good metrics. I don't have to tell you we're not doing well. We should all be able to see it!?
Kurt Hellweg?
Right, yeah, absolutely. You're talking about happiness and that reminds me of that Schopenhauer quote, "It is difficult to find happiness within oneself, but it is impossible to find it anywhere else."?
Rhett Roberson?
Yes! That's good.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Yeah, embracing change. I like that. The value of where you want to go has got to offset either the pain or the uncertainty of what you need to do to get there.?
Rhett Roberson?
I thought the concept was very interesting. Again, it's a formula that you could never apply real numbers to, but...?
Kurt Hellweg?
I'm reading this book by Scott Galloway, The Algebra of Wealth and it's the same kind of thing. Yeah, you can put these concepts down in an algebraic equation, my math dork side of me says, "Oh, that makes sense.", but at the end of the day it's just all just ideas.?
Rhett Roberson?
Yes sir! We made it with 24 seconds to spare.?
Kurt Hellweg?
Not bad! Good pacing! You ever run long distance races?
Rhett Roberson?
Oh, no. I wish I could get into it.?
Kurt Hellweg?
With this pacing strategy of yours in the interview, you'd be great.
Rhett Roberson?
(Laughs) I'll give it some thought. Thank you again for making time!
Books:
A River Runs Through It - Norman Maclean
Poisonwood Bible - Barbara Kingsolver
Zen in The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - Robert Pirsig
Trout Fishing in America - Richard Brautigan
Bonus books I mentioned: