52 Cups of Coffee: 417 Edition - Cup 18/52 - Gary Whitaker

Here's the weekly boilerplate intro if you've already read anything from past cups of coffee skip ahead to the cup of coffee below the name!

After hearing about the book 52 Cups of Coffee on a Podcast, I thought it sounded like a great opportunity to connect to people in my community. Initially, my plan was to just have coffee once a week with someone I know. I was thinking of friends, family members, or colleagues with whom I could spend some quality time. But the opportunity to engage with my community is always in the back of my mind. So I thought it might be interesting to ask the same set of questions to a diverse cast of influential and interesting people in the 417 area and share them here on my LinkedIn page. At the end of the year, who knows what we'll have... at the very least it's 52 interesting conversations. It's a loose plan. I don't have any real intentions and I think that's the beauty of it. Curiosity. Community. And a chance to learn a little bit from each person. A big thanks to the folks at Travellers House Coffee & Tea for being willing to provide a place to chat and several cups of coffee throughout the year!

**I don't like taking notes while having coffee and conversation so I've trusted Otter to do the transcribing. Any editing issues are my own. I'm not a professional. :) I've included a list of books we discuss throughout the conversation at the bottom.

Gary Whitaker - 18/52

Gary Whitaker and his wife Joan are responsible for the magazine that has become a Springfield staple, a community enriching publication, a reason for events, a way to learn about events, and what keeps the pulse of whats happening in area. You almost couldn't imagine Springfield in its current state without 417 Magazine . I was interested in learning about how this all came to be but we touched on so much more. A little over half way through this interview you will notice the veteran news man turn the mic on me. All those years on TV must have stuck with him. While I typically try to mostly leave myself out of these things, we bonded over travel, family, tragedies, and triumphs. He even got me choked up a little talking about my daughter. I think there is a noticeable and interesting tone shift as we get to know each other better over the hour that we spoke. We get away from the format and just really dig into some deeper stuff. My gut tells me this is typical of a good conversation with Gary. I really enjoyed the time and he is one hell of a storyteller which made it even easier to go a little longer than normal. I met Gary for coffee at Traveller's House across from MSU campus on a rainy morning after he had been up late dealing with some flooding in his building. His first question of me was, "Why did you want to meet with me?" To which I replied, "This is 417 themed. Of course I want the back story on 417 magazine." Gary took right to telling me the story and luckily I had started the transcribing! So, in another slight deviation from normal, we kick off with Gary instead of me asking questions. That's probably for the best anyway. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Gary Whitaker?

Okay, here's the dirty little secret. I did not start 417 Magazine. Probably a lot of people assumed that I did because we've had it for so long. When I list that I'm the founder, it's that my wife and I started a marketing company and we bought 417 Magazine, and took our attention from advertising, marketing, and promotions. Our biggest client at the time was Liberty Bank, which is now Simmons Bank, and we were in charge of all their advertising and promotion, both internal and external. A radio station in Springfield did these concerts at the Shrine Mosque called Dare to Care, that were fundraising concerts, and they would donate some of the proceeds to charity. They did these promotional flyers that went with the concert. When you get to the concert, it would be a little bit about the band and the radio station, and advertisers could advertise in those promotional magazines. They figured out that they were getting a lot of money from their advertisers if they were adding a print element. So, they said, "Maybe we should just start a magazine, separate from our radio station and use the magazine as a print bonus to the radio advertisers." That turned into 417 Magazine. There was a company that came in and bought all of the radio stations, but they didn't want the magazine. They hired probably 95% of the people on the staff at the radio station. They left behind 5%. We don't want the magazine and we don't want you five people. A couple of those people had worked with me when I was the general manager at KSPR, this goes back into the mid to late 90s, they came to me and said, "We know you're handling Liberty Bank's advertising, we're now stuck with trying to run this magazine. Would you buy some ads for the bank in 417 Magazine?" I said, "I don't know enough about the magazine. What's your readership like?" I've got to be a good steward of the bank's money, right? I had to do a little research. What I found out was they were printing about 4,000 copies a month. They were going nowhere, and they were losing about $15,000 a month.?

Rhett Roberson?

Ouch.?

Gary Whitaker?

I went to the folks at the radio station, because I knew them, and I said, "You know my wife and I have a marketing and PR firm and we're doing all of Liberty Bank's stuff, but we put together a strategic plan for them. What if we put a strategic plan for your magazine? We'll help you grow it, and we'll help you figure out how to make it work." And they told us that the old owners of the radio station, who still owned the magazine, wanted to fly into Springfield to meet us and hear the marketing plan for the magazine. So, we met and at the end of lunch, they said, "We think it's a brilliant marketing plan and we think you should execute it." and I said, "That's great!" They said, "No, no, as the owners of 417 Magazine." My wife was listening, she closed the menu and said, "Lunch is over. We're not interested." But I went up to the University of Missouri, where I'd gone to journalism school, and I took a copy of 417 and said to the members of the faculty up there, "You think a magazine like this has a chance to survive?" They said, “Yeah, lifestyle magazines do well!" So, I came back, and I think the radio station owners wanted something like $250,000 or $400,000. Some ridiculous money.?

Rhett Roberson?

For something losing $15,000 a month? (laughs)

Gary Whitaker?

Exactly. I mean, I don't know how business cashflow works exactly, but that didn't sound like a good deal. But I was intrigued. The people at the University of Missouri said two things. If you buy the magazine, make sure you join the City and Regional Magazine Association . It is an association of other magazines like Boston Magazine, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Atlanta, St. Louis, and they all get together a couple times a year and swap best practices. So, you should join that because your learning curve will be a lot shorter. The other thing they said is the best formula for making a lifestyle magazine work is what we at the journalism school called "refrigerator journalism". You've seen those articles where you cut them out and stick them on the refrigerator. Like, "these are the five best hikes in the Ozarks" or "if you're going to take a motorcycle ride in the fall, these are the best trails to follow to see the leaves" or "here are the best restaurants" just carve out the best of everything. Best neighborhoods, best schools, and you'll have a foundation. My parents had passed away and they owned a house on the north side. It was a little three-bedroom ranch house that my brother and I got. We had rented it out, but he lived in Florida, and I didn't want to be a landlord, so we sold it. We'd spent so much money putting on a new roof and putting the driveway when all was said and done, we both got walked away with $39,000. So, I called the owner of the magazine and said, "I'm interested in your magazine if you'll take $39,000." And he said, "You're not serious." I said, "I am serious," this is like Monday or Tuesday, “but if you change your mind and accept my offer you need to let me know by the end of business Thursday. If you accept it, on Friday I'm getting on an airplane to join to go to Minneapolis and join the City and Regional Magazine Association and their annual conference starts Friday." So, about 4:45 on Thursday afternoon he called up and he said, "Okay, the magazine is yours. Go to Minnesota."

So, we did not start 417, but we rescued 417. We got the people together and said, "All those of you who work here, if you want to continue to work here, there are going to be drastic pay cuts. You're going to have twice the workload, but if we ever get profitable, we'll take any profit and give half of it back to you guys." That was in May of 2001, and we got the magazine to profit by October, and we were able to pay profit shares and have been paying profit shares ever since. So, people say "You started 417!" I didn't start it, I rescued it. My wife and I set our marketing and PR company aside. We continued to do Liberty Bank stuff and a couple of other clients. And that's really what paid the bills because we weren't paying ourselves out of the magazine for a couple of years. Liberty Bank and a couple of other clients kept us fed and clothed while we were turning the thing around. That's the backstory, now you're caught up!?

Rhett Roberson?

How long did it exist in true magazine form prior to you taking it on? There's some kind of transition from more of an advertising supplement to an actual publication.?

Gary Whitaker?

I don't know when they were doing the concert flyer/magazine, but it launched as a magazine with advertising and editorial and subscribers in January of '98. So, it was about two and a half years old and when we bought it there was a pile of magazines that had been printed but had not been distributed. The printer came and said, "I understand you're the new owners. You owe me for April. You owe me for May. And I'm not printing another page until you pay me for April and May before we print the June magazine because you haven't paid for three months." The day that we met with the staff and told them we've taken over and we're going to try to turn this thing around. After we had the meeting with the staff, they all went to Mudhouse and came back. Mudhouse was one of the advertisers in the magazine. At the end of the month, we sent them an invoice for the advertising. They sent us an invoice back and said, "I know that you show that we owe you $800 on advertising, but your staff comes here and drinks coffee every day and puts it on the magazine's account. You actually owe us $130 because they drank over $900 worth of free coffee over the past several months." So that's when we started to figure out that most of the advertisers that were in the magazine had been told if they'd spend $10,000 in radio advertising, we'll give you a full page ad. Or if they spend $5,000, we will give you a half-pager. Most of the advertisers in the magazine were bonus ads and not real. We had a couple, and we went back to them and said, you know the money you spend in the future, those magazines will actually go to subscribers' homes and will actually go to newsstands. In the middle of May, we changed the editorial policy and followed the journalism schools' advice and started doing lifestyle magazine pieces. We had several advertisers who said, "If you're still here, in a year we will advertise with you." And a year later I would go back and go "We're still here!" and they'd say, "Okay, you're on!" They liked to be a part of it because it was it was positive. It was unlike most other publications. I ran a TV station. I was a news director at TV stations. The mission of a news department at a TV station is go out and videotape or film or report on the worst things that happened that day, right? As opposed to a magazine that goes out and looks at the best restaurants, and the best things to do, or what concerts are coming to town. The advertisers liked the idea of having their ad in a positive editorial as opposed to next to a tragedy or a scandal or something. Once we got it going, it was easier to get people to add that to their advertising mix.?

Rhett Roberson?

I never even never even thought about that as an advantage to the company putting an ad in there. Put it in the newspaper, you never know what you're getting!?

Gary Whitaker?

You never know what you're next to. Right.?

Rhett Roberson?

Man, interesting stuff! So, the first question...?

Gary Whitaker?

Wait, that wasn't a question? That was a long answer! (laughs)?

Rhett Roberson?

No, (laughs) but it's exactly the right timing! It's the end part of the first question, which is "What is the CliffsNotes version of the story of you?" So, I've got the end. Can we fill it in from the beginning? Where did it start??

Gary Whitaker?

Oh, I'm from Springfield. I grew up here. I went to Hillcrest then I went to the University of Missouri. My first job was in a radio, an all-news radio station in Jackson, Mississippi, where I met my wife. After a year at the station there, the KY3 of Jackson, Mississippi, the big NBC affiliate, hired me as a reporter and then I did some anchor work. After that I got hired in Orlando covering the space center for an ABC affiliate. Then I got hired in Atlanta as a newsroom manager and I was not a reporter anymore. They actually hired me to come and teach the other reporters how to report and then from Atlanta I went to Albany, New York, where I was the news director at the oldest television station in America. From there I was hired as news director in St. Louis, then fired from a news director's job in St. Louis. I relocated back to Atlanta and almost as soon as we got there, got hired again by a St. Louis TV station to be news director at the ABC affiliate there. While I was putting a news department together there, one of the people I hired was working at KSPR here and she said, "If you don't hire me in St. Louis, you ought to come work for KSPR in Springfield because they're looking for a general manager with a news background." She put the owner in touch with me and they hired me to run KSPR for five years. KSPR now is managed by KY3. The CW, KSPR, KY3 conglomerate. Before all that, I'm not sure that was the CliffsNotes, but I was a Springfield kid, who 25 years later ended up back home running a TV station, then starting a marketing company, and then buying 417 magazine, which has defined in the last 20 years of my life.?

Rhett Roberson?

What's day-to-day look like these days? I may be jumping ahead of myself here...?

Gary Whitaker

I'm retired! Day-to-day, last year I spent 269 out of the 365 days out of town. I just got back from a world cruise. We left January 9 from LA and flew home from Mumbai, India, three weeks ago.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's cool did you get to spend any time in India while you were there??

Gary Whitaker

Yeah! We were there 10 days, we went to Delhi, Agra, Jaipur, and Mumbai. The Taj Mahal and... a LOT of people. 1.4 billion people.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah.?

Gary Whitaker?

Have you been there??

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah.?

Gary Whitaker?

Oh my God!?

Rhett Roberson?

One of the most eye opening experiences of my life. I loved it. But "culture shock" doesn't cover it.?

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah. When I tell people about it, I say, "Imagine driving down Glenstone and everybody having to stop so a cow could walk across the street. Because cows have all the right of way." What were you in India for? Work??

Rhett Roberson?

Just fun.??

Gary Whitaker

Oh, you went for fun??

Rhett Roberson?

I actually went to see the Dalai Lama speak and other general tourist things. I don't know if he's doing it since COVID, but four times a year the Dalai Lama has open gates to the temple. You can go sit and listen to him teach.?

Gary Whitaker?

Is that in Nepal??

Rhett Roberson?

Now in the mountainous region of India. They moved when China came and took Tibet many of the government officials of Tibet snuck through the mountains.?

Gary Whitaker?

So, you went to see the Dalai Lama in a temple in India??

Rhett Roberson?

I sat in the Dalai Lama's courtyard for three days and listen to him speak through a translator piece in my ear and then got to go to Delhi and all over the northwest region. There's still so much more to explore. I'd love to go back.?

Gary Whitaker?

It was fascinating. Very good.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, what brings you joy??

Gary Whitaker?

Oh, wow. All right. Probably the thing that I like best is hanging out with my grandkids. I know that's a typical answer, but I've got four grandkids. Two of live in Kansas City and two of them live here. They're all involved in sports. They are all involved in music and theater. They're just a blast to hang around with and the four of them get along. So, when the four of them get together, it's like a comedy routine. On a day-to-day basis. What I do when I am at home is take care of a lot of the building stuff. The reason we moved into the building (One Parkway Place downtown) was so we could lock it and leave. We had a home out at Millwood, and we realized we're never here. Why do we have it? So, we bought this condo, and that turned into helping run the homeowners association. I do a lot of journaling and writing. We do some cruises and people have asked about which cruise line we like best. My answer is Oceania has the best food, Celebrity cruise lines has the best entertainment, but Viking has the best lecture enrichment series. When I was on this 100 day cruise there were lectures all the time and the lectures were so good. One was an astronomer, one was a historian, one was a pop culturist. One did religious studies and as we were going into different parts of the world she was telling us about Buddhism, and Islam, and which countries were which. I think what, even at my age, brings me joy is learning. I'm still a student. I didn't lay by the pool. I didn't do the usual things you think of when you're in on a cruise ship. I was at every lecture, and I felt like I got a master's degree.

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, that's really interesting. I had no idea about that in the least, but it's right up my alley as well.?

Gary Whitaker?

Well, you ought to check out a Viking cruise. Now, Viking river cruises are different, this was a Viking ocean cruise and they pride themselves in what they call their enrichment. On a Viking ocean cruise there's no kids and no casinos. (laughs) So the kind of travelers on there are serious travelers. They're there to go to India and explore the world not to go and drink margaritas by the pool.

Rhett Roberson?

How many countries did that cruise go to??

Gary Whitaker?

Well, we left LA, went to Hawaii, went to three islands in French Polynesia, then to New Zealand, Australia. Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, and then India. I'm probably missing a couple.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's incredible.?

Gary Whitaker?

But in Indonesia, and there's lots of little islands, like Bali. Is that a country or is that an island or is it both? Singapore is a city island country. I don't know how many countries, I'd have to go back and add them up.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. Sounds like an awesome trip. Several countries in there haven't been to yet that I plan to. Now I know I can knock it out while also getting in a lecture series the whole time.?

Gary Whitaker?

If you travel with Viking, if you're looking for the casino, you won't find it.?

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) I have a feeling this is probably like a lead into the question I'm about to ask, but the question is, what do you do when you need to recharge??

Gary Whitaker

Well, I told you I worked out for 30 minutes before I came over here. I meditate. I play ukulele and bass. Not in any bands. I just turn on Spotify and try to keep up and figure out what key songs are in and just strum along just to have something other than the usual things on my mind. If you've done some psychology work, I'm an intro-extrovert. I can go out, when we owned the magazine, we had to be out a lot. We did a lot of public events, and I can flex into being an extrovert and grip and grin and do all those things and then I have to go sit in a dark room and meditate and recharge. I'm comfortable with interacting with people, but it drains me. Which is typical of an introvert. It's not that I avoid interacting with people. I enjoy it. But I may be the first one to leave the party because I've had enough. But I exercise and do music and meditate to recharge.?

Rhett Roberson?

I resonate with a lot of that.?

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah, going to see the Dalai Lama, I'm sure you do!?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, over COVID I did a meditation teacher training like a six-month course...?

Gary Whitaker?

To teach it??

Rhett Roberson?

To be able to teach, yeah. It's something I'm really passionate about.?

Gary Whitaker?

I used to do yoga, kind of falling off of that and doing other things instead.?

Rhett Roberson?

(laughs) How would your colleagues describe you??

Gary Whitaker?

I don't have any colleagues.?

Rhett Roberson?

How would your colleagues previously have described you? (laughs)?

Gary Whitaker?

Well, right now my colleagues are my neighbors. That's what I spend a lot of time on. Today we're probably going to have to contact an insurance company, an excavation company that can tear out some of the groundwork around the building, stuff like this. While I was in India, our tour guide was almost like a shaman. He read palms and read dates and all this stuff. And he said, you have gone from being a leader or a get-it-done guy, to now you're more of a diplomat. That's how my wife would describe this. She says that's why there's peace in the building. You've got 100 people living shoulder to shoulder. Inevitably somebody's dog is going to poop in the wrong place, and they want you to fix it. My wife said, "The reason there's peace in the building is because you're diplomatic about resolving this stuff." So, I think the people that I interact with now would probably describe me as calm and diplomatic. When I got back from the trip, I'd been gone 100 days, a couple of things had popped up, and everybody was confessing other people's sins. I got them all in the same room and I said, "Without interrupting, I want to hear what you heard happened or your interpretation of what happened." Everybody sat and said, "Yeah, I never thought about it that way. I'm glad to hear your explanation because I didn't see it that way." By the time it was all over everybody was like, "Okay, can we just start over. I misunderstood. I'm sorry. I jumped to conclusions." So, they would probably describe me as diplomatic, a calming influence and diplomatic.?

Rhett Roberson

That's good. I'm sure I have been described in certain parts of my life as the opposite of that. Just a chaos factor.

Gary Whitaker?

Well, if you've read the book Traction , there is the doer, and then there's the thinker. I said it's like I'm in a hot air balloon up there looking around at where we go, and my wife is the one on the ground holding the rope to make sure I don't fly off. There have been times when I have said, "What do we do next? What do we do next?" That was then. This is now.?

Rhett Roberson?

I like Traction. Did you read Scaling Up by Vern Harnish? He really did a few books but Scaling Up was what Traction came out of. I'm working through Scaling Up with Christenson right now, but it's pretty intense. I thought Traction was maybe a little more applicable to any business. ?

Gary Whitaker?

Is Scaling Up open book? Like Great Game of Business where everybody shares all the numbers? Because Traction had some of that.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yes, not quite to that degree but it is about involving the entire group in plans. Now, I haven't read it for over a year now but it is about involving the people in the decision making and what's going on.?

Gary Whitaker?

Do you know Don Harkey ?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, Don actually did one of these!?

Gary Whitaker?

Okay. We used Don a lot several years ago. This goes back seven, eight years ago. We had a consulting company come in because another publisher had done it. They used two consultants one was a media salesperson interested in selling, the other one was a media accountant, which could go in and look at a company's books and tell where the sweet spot is or "here's something you ought to lop off." They went in together and would value companies. A friend of mine who was the publisher of a magazine in Maine did it and after doing it, he decided not to sell. He decided that his company's worth a lot more. But the exercise was worth it. So, I had those folks come in and do a full body scan of our publishing company and the takeaway was, one, you’ve got to get better at financial forecasts. And you guys have been on this hockey stick growth, and that's not going to last. So, anybody that would buy the magazine would have to have some realistic projections and you need to get a handle on that. And unless you and your wife want to die at your desk, you need to replace yourselves and train up your middle managers. And that's what Don did for us, and it was very good. Eventually after Don had done his work, my daughter bought the magazine from us. You've got to talk to her. She's a much livelier interview!

Rhett Roberson?

Logan, right??

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah, you know Logan??

Rhett Roberson?

I Springfield know her. If that makes sense. (laughs)

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah. She then added the Great Game of Business and took the whole employee involvement, engagement, open book, to a whole other level.?

Rhett Roberson?

I had no idea she was your daughter. We're learning something all the time. I would love to have her be a part of this too!?

Gary Whitaker?

She's great.?

Rhett Roberson?

You've kind of described the work that you do now, which in retirement is helping take care of the HOA over there...?

Gary Whitaker

The other thing I do is help my wife plan travel. Her favorite thing while we're on a trip is to plan the next trip. This world cruise literally is supposed to go from LA, all the way to London. We got off in Sri Lanka and went to India and when we finished our tour of India, flew home from Mumbai because they couldn't go to the Red Sea. It was going to get detoured all the way around Africa. We're going back to Africa this summer, so we decided to fly home. When they gave us the credit for the unfinished portion of the cruise, she booked three more cruises with the credit. So, we're going back to cruise from Bucharest to Amsterdam, Norway, and then a Great Lakes tour next summer.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's cool.?

Gary Whitaker?

Because this winter we were on a cruise ship and could avoid the cold weather. Yesterday, she booked us three weeks in an apartment in Mexico City for next January. So that's my job, to make sure that she has no distractions. I occasionally get the "Okay, you call the airlines and figure out how to use our travel points to book our next airfare." and she does the groundwork. I do the air work, so I'm her partner in travel crime.?

Rhett Roberson?

Have you all been to Amsterdam together before?

Gary Whitaker?

Yes, on Kings Day. Do you know about Kings Day?

Rhett Roberson?

I don't.?

Gary Whitaker?

You should look it up. You do not want to fly into Amsterdam on King's Day. (Laughs)

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) I will. I'm going to put a note in the article for someone to go after once I've learned more about it myself. (as promised - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koningsdag ) How'd you get into your line of work? Television, into publishing and marketing, into owning the magazine.

Gary Whitaker?

When I was eight years old and learning to ride a bicycle, my cousin had a little Shetland pony. So, I went over and that day I was learning to ride a bike and learning to ride a Shetland pony on the same day. There was a lot of falling off. I had a stiff neck and my parents just thought, "Oh, you fallen off the bike." but then I started vomiting. They took me to the hospital, and I had spinal meningitis and came close to dying. I was in isolation at what is now Cox North. The hospital there was Burge hospital back then. They had a separate wing in the furthest north part of the hospital in the old section and they cleared out the entire ward. They moved all the kids to different parts of the hospital because I was so infectious. For a couple of weeks, I was in isolation. My parents couldn't even come see me, they could only look at me through a little window in the door. And the only thing I had was a radio. As a seven or eight year old kid, my world was the radio. I think somewhere back deep in my DNA was this idea about the radio and then it turned into TV. There was something about being able to inform people, lift people, entertain people. I thought there were bands, literally in the radio. I didn't know how that was possible. But while I was still in high school, working from my high school newspaper, I got hired at KWTO radio as a news writer and fill-in DJ. Then when I went to the University of Missouri the whole time I was at Mizzou I worked at a radio station as a DJ and a news guy. And it just kind of went from there. In moments of deep reflection, I think the seed was planted when I was stuck in a hospital room by myself with no contact with the outside world except whatever the guys on the radio were telling me. I had somebody to keep me company.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's wild. How old were you??

Gary Whitaker?

Seven or eight? I was in school. I don't know. How old are kids when they learn to ride a bicycle? Maybe younger than that. Maybe five or six. I'd like to go back and look at those medical records, if they still exist, because I was an anomaly.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's wild. But that makes sense, carried it through the whole life from that moment.?

Gary Whitaker

I've connected those dots, at least. I think that's where the seed was planted.

Rhett Roberson?

Sure. Who is the best boss or leader that you had the opportunity to work with and what made them so good??

Gary Whitaker

The best boss I had was the general manager I had at the TV station in Albany, upstate New York. The reason is, he respected the news department. There are a lot of forces that try to influence news. There are just a lot of things that a general manager can do to protect the news department. To let them go cover a story even if it pisses off a client or something. He was good about that, but he was also honest enough to come and say "Okay, you guys did a story about used cars last night and one of our biggest clients just cancelled a $60,000 advertising contract because of that. I want you to go with me to talk to them about why you thought that was a story." He wouldn't scold me or reprimand me or anything. He'd say I just want you to see the effect the story had and I'll defend it. We all accept the fact that the guy is not going to advertise with us, but I want you to know that those stories have real world consequences. And we would go meet with a car dealer. And I would explain that we thought it was in the viewers interest here. The next day the advertiser would be back ready to advertise and say, "At least I know there was thought put into it." He was good about protecting us, letting us do our thing, but educating us to know that we don't live in a vacuum.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's a common theme. And something that once I'm at the end of this, if I get anything out of it, other than the opportunity to absorb 52 different people's wisdom through experience, I think that's a big one. As someone who at this point in my career, I'm in the beginning stages of managing people. It's a thing to keep in mind.?

Gary Whitaker?

Who's your favorite boss?

Rhett Roberson?

Oh man. No one's asked me my own questions yet...?

Gary Whitaker

Well, I want to know where you're from and how you ended up here. And are you from Springfield?

Rhett Roberson?

For all of it that I can put any memories to anyways, yeah. I was born in Illinois, but moved here pretty young, my middle brother was born with some health complications. So, the hospital system here was where we ended up.?

Gary Whitaker?

So, you have two brothers??

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. My middle brother ended up passing away around 11 years ago. That's why we started that scholarship with the Foundation for Springfield Public Schools.?

Gary Whitaker

From what?

Rhett Roberson

He got really sick. He got pneumonia for a little bit, he got better taking medicine. Then it came back. It was accompanied by empyema at that point.?

Gary Whitaker?

What is that?

Rhett Roberson?

Basically, when the infection spreads to the outside of the lung as well. There were just some complications cleaning all that out.?

Gary Whitaker?

Was he premature??

Rhett Roberson?

He was very premature. He spent the first year of his life in the hospital.?

Gary Whitaker?

I lost a granddaughter, Logan's daughter, and it was all lungs. She made it for eight months. That's the last thing to develop.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, and it was with him his whole life.?

Gary Whitaker?

Did you go to Parkview??

Rhett Roberson?

I did. I went to Hillcrest my freshman year, then Parkview for the rest of it. I graduated from Parkview.?

Gary Whitaker?

You go to Missouri State??

Rhett Roberson?

I did. I always thought I would go elsewhere, but I never hit escape velocity on Springfield but it's been good to me. I'm a big proponent of this community, which is the reason for doing this!?

Gary Whitaker

In my experience, I was away for 25 years. I lived in Atlanta, I lived in Orlando, upstate New York, and getting to the city was easy to do. We lived in St. Louis. All those places were fun because there were major league sports, major league entertainment but you don't truly appreciate Springfield until you've seen the cities. It's easy to go, "things are small town and rinky dink here." But that's really not true. It's a good culture scene. It's a good music scene. It's a good entertainment scene. There are so many more positives, but you would appreciate it even more if you'd lived in other places. We were laughing last night, we were at Galloway Station on Republic Road, listening to a jazz singer ever heard of Laura French? You should go check her out. She's the real deal. We have friends that live at Millwood that were going to meet us there, but it was raining. "I don't think we're going to go, we don't want to drive that far." You're driving from Millwood. If we were in Atlanta, if it was under 45 minutes, you would think it was close. It's six minutes.?

Rhett Roberson?

But yeah, everything in Springfield is 15 minutes away. I've had friends come from out of town that make that same joke. If you ask someone in Springfield, how long it takes to get from here to somewhere else. The answer is pretty much always 15 minutes everywhere in the city.?

Gary Whitaker?

When I was running KSPR, we had a national sales rep. He's at the TV station and he asks how long it takes to get to work. I said, "Well, sometimes if Chestnut is backed up it can take me 15 minutes. Usually, it's 11. How about you?" He goes, "Well, first of all, I have to drive to a train station," he lives in Connecticut, "then I get on a train, and I take that 25 minutes, and then I get to get on a subway. So, all in all, usually an hour and 10 minutes." And it's both ways!?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, that's a two hours a day. You get a lot of time back here. Although I'd probably get through a lot more books if I had to ride a train two times a day.?

Gary Whitaker?

He makes the most of it, but still.?

Rhett Roberson?

You touched on this a little bit when you were talking about being by yourself recovering in what was eventually Cox North. So, the question is, when you were a child what did you want to be when you grew up? Is that the same answer??

Gary Whitaker?

I think like a lot of kids, I thought I would be first baseman for the Cardinals. Or quarterback for the St. Louis football Cardinals. But while I was in high school, I was working on the school paper and my journalism teacher at Hillcrest had submitted some of my stories to the Springfield Press Club. I didn't know it, but I got invited to a banquet and they gave me a scholarship. The gentleman who was the president of Springfield Press Club was the news director at KWTO radio. At the end of the banquet, he said, "I like you're writing, and I need somebody to come in and do some news writing at night, to take whatever's occurred during the day and rewrite it for the morning. Just come in late at night, 7 to 10 or 7 to 11, just a few hours." So that's when I'm hanging out with the DJs that I used to listen to in the hospital. What I thought I would be doing is some sort of radio announcing--DJ stuff. When I went to the University of Missouri, I went to the journalism school because I got a journalism scholarship. You can go into photography, you can go into TV, newspaper, all that. I went into the radio part of it. If I knew then what I know now, the whole podcasting thing, audio is back, it's just back in a more personalized way. Instead of broadcasting is very narrow casting, but it wouldn't have been a bad track to follow. I ended up in TV and then ended up in publishing, but probably my kid expectation when I was 10, 12, 16 years old, even in the college was some sort of radio thing. I could never figure out how to go from being the news guy, to being the fun guy spinning the records. When I was working at the radio station in Columbia, I was the fill in DJ anytime one of the DJs was out. I had to change my name. My news name was Gary Whitaker, but when I went on as the DJ, I had changed my name to Gary Stevens, which is my middle name. I'm thinking the listeners are pretty much going to know Gary Stevens sounds a lot like that news guy.?

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) You’ve just got to crank up that radio voice another 10 percent!?What book has had the most significant impact on your life??

Gary Whitaker?

Oh, wow. Probably my introduction to Tony Robbins, his first book is called Unlimited Power . That led me to a lot of other empowerment, self-management kind of things. I read it a couple times. And then the Seven Habits . Those sorts of books. Also, The E-Myth . Have you read The E-Myth??

Rhett Roberson?

Yep!?

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah, so those sorts of things where you kind of figure out, it's up to you. You can blame other forces, but it's really up to you.

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, Seven Habits is really good, and I secretly have a soft spot for Tony Robbins.

Gary Whitaker?

I went to an event where I walked across hot coals and came home and bought 417 after that event. My wife either credits Tony Robbins or blames Tony Robbins.?

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) Depending on the day?

Gary Whitaker?

Yeah.?

Rhett Roberson?

What's the what's the most important lesson you've learned so far in life?

Gary Whitaker?

Probably this thing I just touched on. It's up to you. You can blame other people, or you can be proactive and take care of things. If your marriage isn't working, it's probably you. If your job isn't working, it's probably you. If your health isn't good, it's probably you. If you've got conflict with co-workers or friends, it's probably you. You can't fix anything but you. That would be my lesson, start with yourself.?

Rhett Roberson?

You said that with a shoulder shrug, a little nonchalant there, but that's a heavy weight for most to carry around. And if more of us took that responsibility, the world would be significantly better.?

Gary Whitaker?

You can blame all kinds of things, like I don't like what the government did. Well, you're the government. If you don't like what the government did, go campaign for somebody or run for office yourself.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. I think that's a huge lesson that takes a lot of what you talked a little bit about, that self-command, but also some self-reflection, some kind of emotional intelligence, self-intelligence. If people would do just this smidge of the work. I think we'd see a lot better outcomes with our interactions in all of our relationships.?

Gary Whitaker

What motivated you to do this? I'm thinking, this is enjoyable conversation, I'm learning a little about you, you're learning a little about me and everybody loves talking about themselves. But why don't why don't people do this? Without a need to set up the "Let's meet. Let's record it. Let's turn it into something." Why don't people do this without the trappings of a project??

Rhett Roberson?

Right. No, 100%. This started as, I don't know if this is better or worse, (laughs) this started because someone wrote a book called 52 Cups of Coffee. I heard about it on a podcast, and I've been working really hard over the last couple of years. To the point that I felt like I had, not on purpose, but had created some distance between me and people that I care about. I wanted to invest in my relationships and really try my best to intentionally have no intention. There's the advantage of learning things. There's the advantage of meeting people in this community and this is a community built on relationships. It's not lost on me that I will develop some significant relationship over this period of time. But that's ultimately what it was for me. From its genesis it was about the ability to sit down and have a conversation and just be a human being with the human being. And I mean no detriment to SBJ or 417 when I say that when a community leader knows they're going to be in publication, they have to put on the community leader hat. I wanted to try to create a space where that wasn't necessary. For example, I talked to the mayor more about playing the trombone than I did about public policy.?

Gary Whitaker?

He plays trombone??

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah!?

Gary Whitaker?

I didn't know that.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah! Through coffee I learned that he plays in the University Community Band.?

Gary Whitaker

I sat with him Wednesday at the Cardinals afternoon game.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. He's a great guy. And loves the Cardinals. Really great, solid, solid guy. But that's been it for me. Where else can I get this type of relationship building? And it's not for the sake of any "thing", it's intentionless. And our time is very important. Our time is our most valuable thing that we have. The fact that you're giving me, a stranger, a piece of your morning is not lost on me!?

Gary Whitaker?

You're kidding. People love to talk about themselves. Come and talk to you and let you brag about yourself and your magazine and your publishing company. People love to do that. Hey! ( Natalie Murdock , executive director of the Foundation for Springfield Public Schools came through the door. Hopefully a future 52 Cups participant!)?

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) Oh, hi. I know you! (A brief conversation ensues and Natalie heads to her coffee meeting and Gary uses the distraction to become the interviewer.)

Gary Whitaker?

What did your brother that you lost teach you?

Rhett Roberson?

It's a lovely question. I think there's the inevitable run in with mortality there that maybe you don't have at that age. I was 26, and at that point in my life, our band is at its peak performance. We won a thing in Nashville, won a little bit of money. We had signed agency and management. I had got to play with some of my heroes on some of the biggest stages. I never could have dreamed it. And at what I thought was the peak of life at that time, everything's going the way I want it to, then something massive crashes down. You just see the general impermanent nature of being a human being. And I think that was the catalyst for going into organizational psych. That was about happiness at work as a catalyst to begin answering "How can I be happier in this existence?" I have to go to work and pay the bills and not every day is roses and rainbows and sunshine, right? But how can I get better about engaging with that discomfort? It was a catalyst for purpose. What I would call capital P purpose. That I wasn't just going to go through it. And so, I hope that the last 10 years of my life have been a testament to that. Still a long ways to go. I think that's it. Gratitude. Would I take it all back if I could. Well, absolutely. But like, did I also learn...?

Gary Whitaker?

Take what back??

Rhett Roberson?

Him passing away.?

Gary Whitaker?

Oh, yes.?

Rhett Roberson?

Could I go back in time and do something differently? Did he wait too long to go to the hospital? Did he not tell us how bad he was feeling? I don't spend a lot of time living in that realm of "What could we have done differently?" But if that was an opportunity? Of course. Would I trade everything I've learned for that? Yeah, absolutely. But if you've got to have a silver lining, it's a pretty good silver lining. So, I think I've learned a million things in the last 10 years because of it, but most important lesson being intentionality. Don't let life do you. Go do life. So that's what I've been trying to do.?

Gary Whitaker?

Well, that's a good legacy for him.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. And that's the spirit of the scholarship, really. They say you don't really die until people stop saying your name.?

Gary Whitaker?

Who gets the scholarship??

Rhett Roberson?

Right now, it goes to someone in the choir department at Parkview because we've been involved with music over there. When we first started it, we were close friends with the choir teacher.?

Gary Whitaker?

It's an annual??

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. And we're looking to expand it to the all of the Performing Arts at Parkview and then ultimately, as we grow the fund, we'd like to do a second district wide scholarship as well.?

Gary Whitaker?

Do you have to attend a certain school? Is it a Missouri State scholarship?

Rhett Roberson?

No, no it's anywhere. As long as you're passionate about music that's really it. He was really passionate about music, so we just wanted it to resonate that.?

Gary Whitaker

How old was he when he passed away??

Rhett Roberson

24. Yeah, pretty unexpected for pneumonia to take somebody that young. It was a tragic event but thank you for asking. I appreciate that. Feels kind of pithy to go right back into the next question... (both laugh) But I guess it all ties together. It's just a harsh diversion from the philosophical! What would you offer to young people entering the workforce today, as a bit of advice??

Gary Whitaker?

(laughs) Well, it's a hackneyed phrase but, grow where you're planted. You may not end up right out of college in the ideal job, but rather than sit and wait for the ideal job, go do a crummy job well, and it'll turn into a good job. People will recognize your work ethic, your talent, somebody will notice. It's a lot easier if you're working and you're improving yourself and you're learning to be attractive to somebody else if you're involved instead of being on the sidelines. We tell people all the time, if you want to start a career and you hope it gets you to Boston or Austin. Don't stay here, go to Boston. Take a crummy job, and you'll find something that's rewarding. Go to Austin and take a crummy job. You'll network and you'll be where you want to be. But don't take the job and hope you can then transplant it somewhere. Go somewhere and transplant yourself and get busy. That would be my advice.?

Rhett Roberson?

Love it. What are you most proud of??

Gary Whitaker?

What am I most proud of? Oh, probably 47 years of marriage to somebody who I'm still madly in love with.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's awesome.?

Gary Whitaker?

And my grandkids who I think see us as role models of taking care of each other and appreciating each other and respecting each other. So, I'm proud of the example that she and I set for them.?

Rhett Roberson?

I have a baby girl who is almost three and that's really changed my perspective on my relationship with my wife. I have to exemplify how a partner should treat a partner in a relationship she needs to grow up seeing how she should be cared for. I get a little too emotional talking about my daughter. I'm glad this is in print...?

Gary Whitaker?

One kid so far??

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, we're going to be one and done.?

Gary Whitaker?

Do you know that? Have you decided that??

Rhett Roberson?

I have a surgically decided that. (both laugh)?

Gary Whitaker?

My oldest granddaughter, Lucy, when she was three, her sister, Stella, was born premature. She watched her mom care for this premature baby that eventually passed away. Stella got transferred from Cox NICU to Children's Hospital in St. Louis. They tried everything. When we knew it was coming close to the end, my wife went to St. Louis to be with my daughter and her husband and Lucy stayed with me. Sometimes she would sleep out on the couch, sometimes she would sleep in the bed. Sometimes she didn't want to sleep in the bed, she wanted to sleep on a pallet next to the bed. One night it's around 11:30 and Lucy had been asleep for a couple of hours. I just reached over for whatever reason and picked up my phone and my wife had texted me a message that just said, "She's gone." and I put the phone back down. I hear Lucy rustle and she gets up out of her pallet and goes over to a door in our master bedroom that looked out on the deck, and she looks out and kind of then closes it and drops her head and starts crying. I said, "Lucy, you okay? You want to come back and crawl in bed with me?" "No, no Wicker," she called me Wicker. She says, "I'm okay." "Why are you crying?" And she said, "Well, I looked outside, and I saw birds and butterflies go by and one of them was Stella and I think Stella's gone." And she got back in her pallet bed. I told her parents about it when they came back from St. Louis a couple of days later. They were making all the funeral arrangements and Dave, her dad, said "Lucy, Wicker said that you thought you saw Stella?" She said, "Yeah, the other night when I couldn't sleep, I looked out the window and then Stella turned into a butterfly, and she flew by. And I got sad because I figured that meant she was gone." At this time, she is a three year old. She knew something was happening. And I think from our short time with Stella we learned to appreciate our grandkids even more. Lucy knew Stella, all the other grandkids know the story of Stella and I think they all appreciate each other and have this almost mythical appreciation for life. And if you were with us as a family, it wouldn't matter who, could be my son-in-law, my son, one of my grandkids, if we're anywhere and a butterfly goes by everyone goes, "Stella is with us." We have been in the most bizarre places, in the middle of the forum in Rome, in the middle of a tiger sanctuary in India, and there goes a butterfly that reminds us she's still with us. And Lucy is the one who started the family tradition of "Stella's still with us. She's just a butterfly." Next time you see Logan you'll probably see a necklace or wrist bracelet or something. Butterflies pervade our family.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's a lovely and impactful story that'll stick with me. I struggle with the words. They're so perceptive.?

Gary Whitaker?

It was amazing.?

Rhett Roberson?

Final question. The one I love the most, how do you hope the world is better for having you??

Gary Whitaker?

The joke I tell is, for 25 years, I was in TV news and my job was either on my own or directing other people to go out and record and present the worst things that were happening to people. I even had a dream once that I had come upon a car wreck where people were hurt and all of a sudden there were bleachers being set up and people were selling concessions as they're watching this tragedy unfold. I realized that's what I do. I gather a crowd and present them horrible outcomes. Then when I was able to buy the magazine, I turned that into a vehicle for telling positive stories. For 25 years I did TV and then 20 years I did lifestyle magazine stuff. I came close to evening out my karma. (Laughs) So if I have a legacy, it is, hopefully using whatever vehicle you can to point out the good in people, or the good in the community, or the good in the world. Try to look at glass half full, not always glass half empty, and try to be a positive influence on kids, and the community, and co-workers. I don't know, that's very grandiose, but try to be a positive factor, not a negative factor. If the world has bad news in it, don't make it be you.?

Rhett Roberson?

(Laughs) Yeah, that's great. Man, I really appreciate your time this morning and you never know what you're going to get out of coffee with a stranger and this is...?

Gary Whitaker?

There you go! Coffee With a Stranger. That's better than 52 Cups of Coffee!

Books:

Traction - Gino Wickman

Unlimited Power - Tony Robbins

The Seven Habits of a Highly Effective Leader - Stephen Covey

The E-Myth - Michael Gerber