52 Cups of Coffee: 417 Edition - Cup 13/52 - Clay Goddard

After hearing about the book 52 Cups of Coffee on a Podcast, I thought it sounded like a great opportunity to connect to people in my community. Initially, my plan was to just have coffee once a week with someone I know. I was thinking of friends, family members, or colleagues with whom I could spend some quality time. But the opportunity to engage with my community is always in the back of my mind. So I thought it might be interesting to ask the same set of questions to a diverse cast of influential and interesting people in the 417 area and share them here on my LinkedIn page. At the end of the year, who knows what we'll have... at the very least it's 52 interesting conversations. It's a loose plan. I don't have any real intentions and I think that's the beauty of it. Curiosity. Community. And a chance to learn a little bit from each person. A big thanks to the folks at Travellers House Coffee & Tea for being willing to provide a place to chat and several cups of coffee throughout the year!

**I don't like taking notes while having coffee and conversation so I've trusted Otter to do the transcribing. Any editing issues are my own. I'm not a professional. :) I've included a list of books we discuss throughout the conversation at the bottom.

Clay Goddard - 13/52

Clay and I met up for an early morning cup of coffee at Traveller's House... although after some messaging we found out that we arrived at different Traveller's House locations in Springfield! Clay was kind enough to come join me at the National location for some coffee. When I first asked him about doing a 52 Cups spot he said he would if he could buy the coffee (he's a nice guy) so I told him that the whole confusion was just an elaborate way for me to get to buy. Clay strikes me as the type of guy you could sit down next to at a bar and walk out of the place with a new friend. When you mix that kind of personality with Clay's passion for public health and his competence in that area, it's no wonder that Burrell made him President of the Southwest Region. He was part of the team that helped the city navigate through Covid and I loved hearing his perspective on that time in our community. Check it out!

Rhett Roberson?

Okay, well, after a slight scheduling snafu we can officially hit the ground running. (laughs) The first question is what is the CliffsNotes version of the story of Clay Goddard??

Clay Goddard?

Well let's give it a swing. I was born in Kansas City. Go Chiefs, Go Royals! I realize with the Royals I'm an outlier in the Ozarks.?

Rhett Roberson?

At least you were a fan before the World Series.?

Clay Goddard?

I'd go back to the, I'm old, I would go back to the George Brett, Frank White days. Every 30 years we get good again. I live with a Cardinals fan, so I have to hear that all the time. My dad worked in agribusiness for Purina and so we moved a little bit those first few years. I went to kindergarten in Lawrence, Kansas, but then we moved to Springfield, and I started first grade here. I attended first through sixth at Pershing Elementary, and then dad, who had grown up a country boy, wanted to get his own slice of heaven. So, he bought 10 acres out north of town in the Willard school district. Willard then was not nearly as big as it is now. It was still fairly rural. I graduated from high school there after attending seventh through twelfth. I really love sports but had poor hand-eye coordination, so football was where I gravitated toward. I thought, "Man, I really want to extend this", so I walked on at Missouri Southern in Joplin. I learned two things really quick, I was slow and I was small. And I was an excellent tackling dummy. So that experiment only lasted for a year, and I came back to Missouri State, or SMSU at the time. I wouldn't say I was directionless, but I really had no concept of what I wanted to be when I grew up. I probably had too much fun, honestly, and did not really attend classes. I found out there are consequences for that. I got placed on academic probation, and then suspended. I still have the suspension letter framed. I'm not proud of it, but it was one of those crossroads in my life. I sat back and I thought, "Man, where am I going and what am I gonna do?" I decided I was going to join the Coast Guard. I don't even really know completely how I arrived at Coast Guard, because back in those days you weren't exposed to commercials, but I served four years. I had just a really wonderful experience...?

Rhett Roberson?

Not to mention that you grew up as far from any coast as you possibly could.?

Clay Goddard?

And I had never actually even seen the ocean until the Coast Guard.?

Rhett Roberson?

No kidding? (laughs)?

Clay Goddard?

My parents had never taken us. I served on the Arkansas/Mississippi River, I went to electronics technician school in New York City on Governors Island right off the tip of Manhattan, and then spent the bulk of my tour in New Orleans, Louisiana. My first day in New Orleans, this is the truth, was Fat Tuesday and I didn't know it until I got there.?

Rhett Roberson?

So, you just thought oh, this is what happens every day here??

Clay Goddard?

Well, no, I knew that this was exceptional because the city was shut down and so was the base. I spent three years there and just really grew as an individual. Because in the 70s-80s here you didn't really have access to rich culture, you had to read about it or see it on television news. And so, I got to get exposed to things and people that I would have never run into. It was a wonderful experience. Unfortunately, that first year of the enlistment, I knew I needed to get out and go back to school. So, it was a waiting game at that point. I came back with purpose, got my GPA to a respectful level, got a master's degree. I had intentions on going back into the service, into the Air Force, to be in their health services department. They ran a hospital and clinic system. I was interested in health care, but I needed an internship. Evelyn Honea, who was assistant finance director with the city, connected me to Harold Bengsch who was the health director, and I did a summer internship. I knew within a week to 10 days that's what I wanted to do the rest of my life. So, I stopped pursuing the Air Force Commission and stepped into a public health role. So, in 25 years, from intern to Director of Health and now, after a brief stint at Missouri Foundation for Health, I've started probably the final chapter of my career in behavioral health with Burrell and Brightli Behavioral Health.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's really cool. That was a brief stepover the fact that you were with the Springfield-Greene County Health Department. We talked about this before we started recording here, while we're waiting on the coffee to brew. You were part of the team, and Clif talked about it before when I talked to him, Mayor McClure talked about it as well. But you were part of that integral, small team that was helping guide the city through COVID. What was that experience like for you?

Clay Goddard?

A lot of people asked me if it was really stressful. Of course it was, but I don't think that I perceived it that way at the time. Maybe, in retrospect. I feel fortunate that it happened to me at the end of my career versus the middle because I felt like I'd been through enough experiences. You know, in sports, how they talk about how the game slows down? It felt like things had slowed down and that we had built a really good team there and those folks are all still there protecting us every day. A good day in public health is when nothing happens. I feel very fortunate to have lived in a city and in a county where we have those strong collaborative connections. I knew most of these folks, we had worked together on other issues, so we were able to have very candid conversations with one another and oftentimes during that period there were no right answers. You had to often pick the least worst option, is what I'm fond of saying. And so, we oftentimes would arrive at a reasonable compromise. And I think I was very cognizant during the whole thing that if we navigated this right, in the end, everybody would be upset because there would be half the people that thought we had gone too far. The other half thought we hadn't gone far enough. And so really, the performance metric is, everybody's upset. Which is a weird place to be, but at that point, I had enough scar tissue built up that I was comfortable in that space.?

Rhett Roberson?

Great. I just continue to find that really interesting. As someone who just got the luxury, or maybe that's a silly word for it, but I was just sitting at home. I was fortunate in the sense that my job could quickly be converted to working at home, but my wife is a hairdresser. So, she was...

Clay Goddard?

So, she was impacted.?

Rhett Roberson?

For quite some time.?

Clay Goddard?

What?? About six weeks??

Rhett Roberson?

I think she was maybe I think she was actually out 10 weeks. Right about. But also, particularly fortunate that we were able to just kind of suck it up during that time. And I know other people that weren't so fortunate. But it's fascinating, of course I didn't get to make any of those decisions, I didn't get to be a part of that. But I love hearing about your story and that it wasn't so much stress because of previous experience in public health.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, I mean, we were also very cognizant that people are looking to see how you react and so you have to be calm and lean toward transparency as much as you can. There's a HIPAA piece that can sometimes make that tricky, to be fully transparent, but we really tried to err on the side of full transparency whenever we could. It was a very fluid environment, so the thing is changing every day. Some of it you're making it up as you go and that leads to frustration for people because they say, “wait, you told us last week that you knew this was this.” That's what we knew at the time.

In some ways it feels like a whole lifetime ago, another life, and in other ways it feels like it was just yesterday. A strange, strange time. I'm glad it's behind us.?

Rhett Roberson?

I am glad, as well. Speaking of being glad, what brings you joy??

Clay Goddard?

Those definitions, of course, change over the course of your lifetime. But man, I feel like I'm in the sweet spot of it right now. I've got adult children who I'm very close with. I've got two grandkids who are just incredible. They're here local, so I get to spend time with them and then an extended family and just those things together, being able to spend time with people that I love and know are gonna love me unconditionally and I can love unconditionally is just the sweet spot of life, I think.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, that doesn't need a follow up question. I feel that one! What are some things you do when you feel like you need to recharge??

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, I like to get out into nature a lot. So, my wife and I own kayaks and we like to kayak on the James River. We put in at Nixa or near where we live in Rivercut, and float so we get to float on areas that are quiet and we get to experience that. We've been taking advantage of the wonderful trail system here, riding bikes or walking. We also like to travel, love live music, and we're foodies, as my belly will show. So those are all things I do, but then also, I'll go back to those grandkids. It's just so wonderful to have a relationship with a child where they never see you having a bad moment. I'm able to show them pure joy and love and for me that just helps recenter me when things maybe get a little bit out of balance.?

Rhett Roberson?

Really shows what has weight, what's important. It's easy to come back to them as an anchor to center, you know??

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, and we're so lucky here in the Ozarks to have this area, the outdoors. I think somebody just called it “Outdoors Everywhere.” We lived in St. Louis for a year, and we were downtown, it was hard to get to nature. So here, I mean, you're 20 minutes away from having some isolation. And it's just incredible and a great way to recharge the batteries. Especially when you have no cell phone signal.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, sometimes it has to stay in the truck. Okay, so I do want follow up questions on that one. Who's your favorite band to see live? And what's your favorite vacation spot you've been to??

Clay Goddard?

Ooo, okay. Those are both, I think, easy. There's a tie on the live music. There's a guy that was in Squirrel Nut Zippers who did blues stuff named Jimbo Mathus. I've seen him with Squirrel Nut Zippers, I've seen him as a solo act in Clarksdale, Mississippi and I just love that Americana/Roots music. And then there's another guy that's New Orleans-centric named Johnny, the band is called Johnny Sketch the Dirty Notes. So, it's kind of a New Orleans funk with a horn section. Sometimes he plays an electric cello and it's just a really high energy thing. The great thing about him is he's getting older, too, so he's gone to earlier shows for old people like me. New Orleans music can start at midnight sometimes, and I just don't have that energy anymore.

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, I confided, before we get started, that I have played music throughout my life and we're in that same position. We're like, "If we can get a 6 to 9pm set versus going on stage 11 or midnight, we’re good!" Those days are behind us. We have children now. (laughs)?

Clay Goddard?

(laughs) Yeah, it happens to the best of us, don't mourn that fact. And then the travel thing. Gosh, we like to do so many different things. We did go to Europe for the first time a little over a year ago. We went to Majorca, Spain and spent a week and just kind of embedded ourselves into the Catalan culture. And I think that that's probably my favorite to date.?

Rhett Roberson?

Cool. Pivoting just a little bit, from fun back to the professional. How would your colleagues describe you??

Clay Goddard?

I think driven, probably. Committed to doing the right thing, always. And a bit fun. I want to have fun while I'm at work and I want people to have an ownership stake in the work we do. I think that that's how they would describe me, I hope. During that question, it makes me wonder, too.?

Rhett Roberson?

It might be time to send an anonymous poll out.?

Clay Goddard?

There you go. Do one of those 360s.?

Rhett Roberson?

I think that's so valuable, and I love when people say, maybe not necessarily this question, but any of these questions, allowing employees to take ownership. I think that's so important as a leader.

Clay Goddard?

It has to happen with this generation of workers. I'm a Gen Xer. So, we're a little different than Boomers and we're often forgotten about, but we are a bridge between the two. It does seem like Millennials and Boomers speak different languages, have different values, have different ways of doing the work. The old way doesn't work with this new generation. I'm probably going to offend some readers, but I would rather work with Millennials because I prefer being able to allow them to shape the work versus shaping the work for them.?

Rhett Roberson?

Absolutely. I love what you said there about being kind of a bridge. Someone that can connect ideas or connect people. You did an interview or there was a press release when you made the change over to Burrell that talked about your experience in the rural and the urban communities, your ability to bridge those two things. I always hope in my life that, regardless of what the two sides are, I hope that my main gift is that I can bridge communication between seemingly disparate points of view. So that really resonated with me.?

Clay Goddard?

That's a gift, if you can harness it, because you should always know what the other side is thinking.?

Rhett Roberson?

Well, it seems like something that you utilize, and have utilized throughout your career.?

Clay Goddard?

Tried to, maybe sometimes with varied success. But it's something I strive to do.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, I think even having that in mind, or the goal to do it, at least you're thinking about it. And that's half the battle, really, that it's something you aspire to do. So, you've talked about your colleagues, and we've talked very briefly about the work, but can you describe the work that you do now??

Clay Goddard?

I'm Public Health Guy, and even though I'm in a different field, I still view this work as very much public health work. We're working to protect the most vulnerable in our community. In this case, it's about mental illness, a lot of times, or substance use disorders. We do operate as a safety net provider, about 85% of our clientele are utilizing Medicaid. So, it's also interesting because we've seen stigma decline pretty significantly around behavioral health. That wasn't the case with my generation. I was raised by a really strong father, who was a great loving guy, but he's not somebody that's going to say that you should show vulnerability. You just don't do that as a man, is how I was raised. But that stigma seems to have declined, which I view as positive. This created some significant challenges for us because it means a significant increase in demand. We're coming out of a pretty traumatic period. So, we're trying to solve the challenge of how we address those issues. I think that's pretty much every day of my life right now...

?

A friend of mine who works for Burrell came into the coffee shop as Clay was talking and I interrupted to introduce them…

?

Rhett Roberson?

You're at Burrell, right??

Jake?

What??

Rhett Roberson

Aren’t you at Burrell??

Jake

Yeah.?

Rhett Roberson?

You guys know each other?

?

Over the next few minutes Clay and Jake have a quick conversation about Burrell, and the work Jake does there. I enjoy my coffee and observe two of my social worlds colliding beautifully. ??

?

Clay Goddard?

(To Jake) If I can ever do anything for you, I'm over at the admin campus. I love feedback. All right? Take care.?

Rhett Roberson?

I just wanted to make sure to stop him.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, thank you!?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, he really is, I've known him for several years and I mean, absolutely solid guy.?

Clay Goddard?

Seems like it. We've got 1300 employees, so it's hard to connect with all of them.?

Rhett Roberson?

Wow, I didn't realize that!?

Clay Goddard?

I mean, that's just in my region.?

Rhett Roberson?

Wow. Well, then it was kind of a silly question for me like, “Well, you know, Jake, right?” (laughs)?

Clay Goddard?

No, not at all. I mean, I want to, I like to see the work being done. I like to be in those spaces. It helps fill my cup.?

Rhett Roberson?

He really a spectacular, dude. I'm gonna have to backtrack.?

Clay Goddard?

I don't know where we were. I was babbling about something, I'm sure.?

Rhett Roberson?

Great thing for transcription service! Talking about your father and the stigma shift…?

Clay Goddard?

So, that's probably where I'm at every day, working with my leadership team to solve for how we're going to meet the demand and make sure that we're not leaving people behind. It's very much public health driven, and it's all shaped by regs and by, you know, financial, fiduciary responsibilities. So, it's just a complex puzzle, which are the things I love and the things I live for. It's a great happenstance that one of our employees was in here because, that's the other thing, being able to actually see services being delivered is very important. And that's something I was missing when I worked for the Foundation for Health, I was too far away from that work. I like to get out in the field and watch our staff helping people, understand what they're going through, what their hurdles and barriers are. That is, essentially, my job. I love it. It's one of those things I'm really excited to get up every morning and get at it.?

Rhett Roberson?

And it's important work. You know that, I know that, by way of Jake. Even just running into him here, recently, I was waiting on another one of these, and we just sat down and talked about what he does, his daily work. It is important work, so I'm glad to see people like you and people like Jake taking...?

Clay Goddard?

I'm glad to see people like him. That's the important layer. It's not the leadership, it's the people. The leadership should be invisible, they should be giving them the resources to do their job.

Rhett Roberson?

Good leadership philosophy! You talked about, a little bit earlier, the CliffsNotes version of how you got into it, but more specifically, how did you get into the line of work? You started that internship?

Clay Goddard?

I just knew that's where I needed to be. I didn't know exactly where I wanted to go with it, I still don't know where I want to go with it. I've been an accidental tourist this entire time. I don't know if I believe in fate or not, but I am on this journey. And some people always have an end point, I don't know what my end point is, yet. I think I'll know when I get there, but in the interim, I'm just going to enjoy the ride and work hard to make this region the best behavioral health region that we have in the company, for sure, and be the best we can be.?

Rhett Roberson?

What resonated with you in those first 7 to 10 days? You said you knew right away, but what triggered that realization??

Clay Goddard?

It was just seeing the work that we were doing. I had not really been exposed to public health at all. And in realizing that this is upstream prevention and, once again, that concept that if you're doing your job right nothing happens, to me, there's some gratification in that.?

Rhett Roberson

Who is the best boss or leader who you've had the opportunity to work with and what made them so good??

Clay Goddard?

Oh boy, that's a real tough one because I've been around some really great people. My father, probably, is top of the heap, but that's kind of a cop-out answer. So, I'll go with Kevin Gibson, who was my predecessor in the Health Department. He kind of took me under his wing and taught me everything I knew and that he knew. One of the things I really appreciated about him is he was brave enough to let me make mistakes, not critical mistakes, but he would let me run things even though sometimes they wouldn't turn out the way I thought they would as a young man full of hubris. And he also understood how systems work and when to push and when not to push on public policy. So, Kevin is probably top of the heap for me. I spent a long time with him, a longtime Assistant Director under him and he really helped shape me into the leader I am.?

Rhett Roberson?

I think that's really cool. In relation to previously talking about giving people the authority, giving people the ownership of their work, I think we get to see where some of those seeds were planted for you.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, not a micromanager and that's what I loved about him. He let you become your own person and be authentic to yourself. And that's important.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, very cool. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up??

Clay Goddard?

I didn't know. I was one of those kids... you know, I admire these kids who say I'm going to be a doctor or an engineer, because I had no clue, and I still don't know what I'm going to be when I grow up. (laughs)?

Rhett Roberson?

Still time to figure it out. (laughs)?

Clay Goddard?

I'm still a 15 year old in my mind, you know? My dad was in business and so I just assumed that I would end up in that arena, but I wasn't driven to be that, so I found my way.?

Rhett Roberson?

What book has had the most significant impact in your life??

Clay Goddard?

I'm afraid I don't know that I have anything super sexy for this one. I'm going to give you a couple of things. As a kid, my parents bought me these biographical novels, they were mostly set in the West, like Crazy Horse, Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett. I think those sparked imagination and maybe appreciation of what I had. I read all those Laura Ingalls Wilder books, it's all old school stuff. And I think as a professional, maybe the most profound book I read was a book called Agendas, Alternatives and Public Policy, so, nerd alert, by a guy named John Kingdon. It basically is a macro model about how public policy happens. It was really centered around federal policy, but I found it to be equally or more effectively applicable to state or local politics and even institutional politics of you have competing interests and sometimes when they come together is when the right time to move forward is. It was written in 1984, but I was introduced to it in the 90s in grad school. I always go back to it because I think when you're dealing with something as complex as public policy, understanding it at a macro level will help you not get lost. So, total nerd alert, there. (laughs)

Rhett Roberson?

(laughs) I'm here for the nerd stuff, don't worry about that. What's the most important lesson you've learned so far in life??

Clay Goddard?

Sometimes the best thing to do or say is nothing. We always feel compelled to respond or to do and I've found that sometimes it's better to ruminate. And sometimes, just stand pat.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, that advice is good all the time. I remember, early in my career, sending emails I wish I'd have given 24 hours.?

Clay Goddard?

We've all done that.?

Rhett Roberson?

You know, those are lessons learned the hard way. If you're feeling a little tension about something, maybe give it a few hours before you... maybe type it out, put it in the drafts folder.?

Clay Goddard?

In this era of instant communication, that's hard. And I definitely haven't perfected that, but I think that's the one. The other one, Tom Finnie, who's a former City Manager and, by the way, somebody you should talk to, he's a guy that I really admire. He always said, "You don't make friends when you need them." So be very intentional about your relationships and don't make them transactional.?

Rhett Roberson?

That's a good one.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah. He would be the other one. I could easily also name Tom as somebody who had a major influence on me, even though I was many layers removed from him. He was one of those guys that I looked at and just tremendously admired his leadership abilities.?

Rhett Roberson?

Very cool. What advice would you offer young professionals entering the workforce??

Clay Goddard?

I think it's about finding passion. We were talking to this young man, Jake, he's obviously found his passion. I have gone through stretches where, and I won't go into specifics, they weren't in public health, where I had a job that I dreaded getting up and going to and that's no way to live your life. So, find your passion. Understand that getting started in that passion may involve some compromises. You may not walk into that high salary gig that you want, but if you're passionate about it, it's going to reward you in many ways, and maybe even financially, at some point.?

Rhett Roberson?

What are you most proud of??

Clay Goddard?

I think, my kids. They've all turned into productive citizens and they're good people. I think that's just an easy one. They reward me in so many ways. They send me a text, or give me a call, or give me a hug, and that can make everything better.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah, well, that's another answer that I feel very much right in my chest. My "what are you most proud of" answer has changed drastically since that little human came to join us. Everything else seems to not really matter so much.?

Clay Goddard?

And I'm glad to hear that because that means your priorities are straight.?

Rhett Roberson?

I hope so. Final question. How do you hope the world is better for having you??

Clay Goddard?

You know, I'm not a big believer in having things named after you or people looking at you reverently. I think it's in people, your legacy is in people. What you're able to leave behind in the institutions that you worked in. I just hope that I've been able to help somebody in ways that I'll never know. And that's what I've been really behind, being able to have helped somebody and I'll never know that I did. For me, that's my hope. If I've been able to help one person avoid something or given them advice to help them, that's enough for me.?

Rhett Roberson?

I love that. And I've heard people say, “if one person's better,” I think that's an admirable intention. But, so far, no one's added on the “in ways I never will never know” which is a different way to become comfortable with that legacy. Sometimes you just don't know.?

Clay Goddard?

I think it's a public health ethos, you know, once again, that young mother that came through WIC because you had done a good job with that program that was able to have a family that thrived. Those are the kinds of things that strike me. And, for me, in public health, you don't really need to know. You just need to know that prevention works, that you've done everything you could to make the programming more effective.?

Rhett Roberson?

I grew up in a family that needed those types of services. And, thanks to those services, I got a degree, I got a job, I'm able to give back now. If it wouldn't have been for those things, who knows? I'm able to move out of that need and be able to, hopefully, support people that are in those areas of need now because those programs exist. I think my family and I are a testament to the value of those types of things in our community. Poverty is not a generational thing, necessarily. Sometimes it's just the bump needed to get...?

Clay Goddard?

That boost.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yes. And like I said, I am a testament to the boost being something that's valuable.?

Clay Goddard?

Every young family struggles on some level and there's a very few that are smooth sailing, financially. But little things like nutrition and avoiding communicable diseases. I'm not saying it's all about public health, it's about economics. It's multifactoral, but I think that's a part of it that just resonates with me and keeps me going. That was an ethos and I think it applies to the the field I'm working in right now, too.?

Rhett Roberson?

Yeah. I fully agree. I really appreciate this discussion. Thank you so much for making time.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, this has been fun.?

Rhett Roberson?

And for shooting across town.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, sorry about that.?

Rhett Roberson?

No, that's 100% me, I didn't clarify. But I appreciate you making it over and taking the time to do this this morning.?

Clay Goddard?

Yeah, it was great seeing you again. So, we ought to get together again, sometime. I'd love to learn more about you and turn the tables on you a little bit.?

Rhett Roberson?

You call it, I'll be there.?

Clay Goddard?

All right.?

Rhett Roberson?

All right, man. Thanks so much.

Books:

Agendas, Alternatives and Public Policy - John Kingdon