The role of design and its rising influence

- [Host] It still rings true today. I mean, Eli and I have spent a lot of time with and in various companies and where there's B2B software, those teams report more challenges. You know, the design teams are like, people don't understand us, we're downstream. They think of us as like we make things pretty. The B2C, like the consumer facing products, they are there earlier on in the conceptualization of a product. They partner closely with engineers or more peers. It's amazing to see like this is a truth that is embedded in history. - [Guest] There's no doubt in my mind that design has risen in prominence and in importance and in acceptance dramatically in I would say probably the last 20 years. But it's not there yet. It's still a kind of a fragile presence in many companies, design groups, we've seen in this catastrophic wave of layoffs in Silicon Valley since the beginning of this year, 2023, we've seen that design groups are often the most vulnerable and the first to go even at…