We're Not Marketers ??

When you realize it's Friday and you have 0 slide deck requests. ??

We've got a HIT on our hands ?? Michele Nieberding ?? is back for a 2nd time! Now you might not know we have a rule here: never get the same guest twice. But as we all know...we don't play by the rules. So she's back with us for episode #48. And it's a dooooozy. We've got: ?? The red flags: If your PMM team reports to the CRO, run! ??♀? ?? The anti-ICP approach: Why knowing who isn’t a fit is just as important ?? AI for PMMs—the right (and wrong) ways to use AI for messaging, content, and research ?? The troubling trend: Why “Director of Growth & PMM” is a dangerous hybrid role ?? Buffets, bad dating analogies, and how to disqualify bad fits faster than a bad Tinder date And a bunch of laughs along the way. So head over to Apple Podcasts and Spotify before the dance moves take over.

PMMs love talking ICPs. But what about the anti-ICP? In tomorrow's episode, we discussed this powerful concept with Michele: Instead of only defining who IS a fit, get crystal clear on who is NOT a fit. Think about it, dating? You know what you DON'T want, more than what you DO want. "He's here for the wrong reasons..." (#bachelornation fans out there?) The same applies to your targeting personas (not bachelor contestants): 1?? Who wastes your sales team's time? 2?? What customers always churn? 3?? Which deals drag on forever only to fall apart? As Michelle pointed out: "This isn't just about efficiency—it's about money. Every minute spent with a bad fit costs your company real dollars." But if your startup is juiced on VC, who cares? But if your startup is on "VC withdrawals", the anti-ICP can be more concrete runway toward revenue, than chasing the perfect ICP. Not every ICP is worth a second date.

One of the reasons we’re dead inside is because of the horrendous onboarding process in B2B. We’ve seen some really sick stuff in our day. Users tapping "Next" until their fingers fall off, modals popping up like zombies, and product tours dragging on into eternity. Recently, our friends at Chameleon gave us early access to their 2025 Benchmark Report And boy, did it resurrect some truths we've always known deep down (literally): ??Only 30% of users survive traditional product tours ??That's right, 7 out of 10 users don’t make it through the typical onboarding nightmare ??Timing is everything ??Smartly timed or user-triggered tours outperform delayed ones by 2-3x ??Embedded guidance is the way ??Integrated into your app rather than haunting users with pop-ups and increase engagement by 1.5x You’ve been there, we know it. Clicking through endless steps, wishing someone had thought about your experience first. Don’t let your product team put anyone else through that type of misery. Trust us, your CSMs will thank you, your customers will love you, and maybe, just maybe, you'll spare some users from joining us in the graveyard. Curious to learn more? Dig into Chameleon's full report…just leave your shovels at home. https://lnkd.in/e9svvxFg THIS IS A SPONSORED POST AND WE DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT! Chameleon needs to be on every PMMs radar.

Michele joins the show in two days. Our first-ever back-to-back guest (co-host) appearance. You've seen her dominate the PMA circuit: Boston, New York, Tokyo? Can't confirm the last destination, sorry. But we CAN confirm the heat she drops within the first 3 minutes of our conversation. Don't believe us? Hear this 74-second clip on "why being a marketer is a red flag?" We didn't say it, but still approve this message. See ya Thursday, Michele. ??

NEW SPONSOR ALERT: Welcome to the party, Chameleon ??

Gab: "And then I told that founder to go shove it up his AI." See you on Thursday for another episode of We're Not Marketers ??.

Looking for your next product marketing challenge? ? Check out this awesome PMM position and a chance to work with Jess Cook!

But we're the ones responsible if it fails, right? ??

Best marketers are former sellers. Might not be qualified (lead?) to say that, because... you know? We're Not Marketers ?? But you tell us, when you hear Kyle Coleman on the pod. Without intro, we need not say much more. (Except if you still rock out on Myspace.com, no shade.) Then here's what to know: Kyle rose from the silent shadows of SDR realm to leading (dare we say) marketing at copy.ai today, within 10 years. If that doesn't impress you, check out the sick cover art he didn't get brand approval on (lol). But really? Here's a preview on what you miss if you choose not to listen: ? Why the best PMMs own the revenue conversation. ? The "ivory tower" trap that kills product marketing impact. ? A real-life sales deck fail—and how Kyle fixed it by actually selling. ? Kyle’s secret to exec buy-in for category creation (hint: 75+ interviews). ? The #1 piece of career advice for product marketers who want to be CMOs. So does elite sales training make better marketers? Listen to be qualified enough to answer. (Full episode out now.)